stevew
Telly Talk Star
And to me that's when they should have seen the writing on the wall and took evasive action: JR should have taken up the role of Jock in the family and he and Sue Ellen come to some sort of understanding to live together like Jock and Miss Ellie did at South Fork. BBG was ready to move on with health issue and South Fork needed a new Matriarch and Patriarch and Clayton was not going to work as such. This shift in the show would have required a lot of risk, but with great risk could have been great pay off. Finally the Ewing's could have been said to "keep up" with the Carrington's.Once they mellowed the character and turned him into a buffoon who always lost that's when he was less scary.
Of course this would have meant that the Ewing's would need to make other characters big, like JR. To me they had Lucy and while I know not everyone agrees I think they a return of Lucy for a failed first marriage and a surprise new son of a bitch husband, maybe a Cecil Colby type, maybe Jeremy Wendell, could have been just the avenue they needed. Maybe Miss Ellie gives South Fork's mansion to JR but the land and the cattle to Gary, her hands down favorite and he gives it to Lucy - too terrified to return to face JR. But Lucy is thrilled to return to face her uncle with her new husband (soon to die). She moves into the cottage on the property. And we're off. But maybe instead of a battle between JR and Lucy we find an alliance between JR and Lucy - one that makes them super rich - even starts to drill for oil on the ranch and finds Lucy a partner in EO with JR and Bobby. Now with a younger generation taking over there are lots of other characters we could see and a totally evil Lucy taking her place as the next head of the family. Well before she passes the torch onto John Ross in Dallas TNG.
Jr to me lost his edge when Bobby won the battle for Ewing oil up till then JR was feared by just about everyone Wendell cliff Pam Bobby even Holly Harwood but after having to split the company with Bobby JR was never as feared or IMO people where still wary of him but I don't think they genuinely where afraid of him after that cliff especially also when Jr's scheme to set cliff up with the gold canyon 340 lol track backfired that changed the entire landscape of the series because cliff now was a genuine powerfully threat up until then JR viewed him a joke someone he could slap down if he got out of line for his own amusement
Toni
Maximum Member
OG Season 6 was the last one JR could be scary for everyone (even for Miss Ellie since he targeted Clayton). After that, he focused on his business rivals and on "poor, darling" Pam. But he also forgot about her when Bobby returned and became the victim of almost everyone. Need to get rid of Calhoun? Bring Ray and Bobby to kill him off. Need to get Ewing Oil back? He decided to fight the (physically) weakest man in Dallas, Dr. Styles. The same for Cally´s brothers, cocaine-addict Tommy, Cally herself, etc. In the vintage days, JR could do "anything" to get revenge or get what he wanted. Val´s panic was a good proof of that (though, after all, it was VAL who we are talking about...).
"With JR everything is about secrecy", I think that Pam told Bobby once, and it is true. He needed the writers to keep a part of his dirty tricks in the shadows, and at the end, when McSween was fired, he only got that sex-obsessed, goofy detective. It was ludicrous. At least TNT Dallas corrected that and gave him a good enough henchman with Bum. After Pam´s accident, JR started to act out-of-character and turn into someone who homaged himself often, with so many JR-isms. It looked as if JR himself was a bit tired of being JR... He wasn´t scary, he did just what any (unethical) business man would do, like blackmailing The Jeremy to get his properties back.
JR was the man who drank alone in his office at night when sister-in-laws hit the streets... He only had to blink to make Swellin tremble just thinking of the sanitarium... But also everybody in the oil business was afraid and/or angry with him, and those were the powerful men (and a few women) in Dallas. Did he need to be softened? I don´t think so. Especially when in the latter seasons also characters like Cliff and McKay also were softened. What was left? Sheila Foley and Lee Ann de la Vega, who sort of castrated both Bobby and JR. Go figure...
See here Lee Ann´s fashions when she dated JR as Ms. Nelson!
"With JR everything is about secrecy", I think that Pam told Bobby once, and it is true. He needed the writers to keep a part of his dirty tricks in the shadows, and at the end, when McSween was fired, he only got that sex-obsessed, goofy detective. It was ludicrous. At least TNT Dallas corrected that and gave him a good enough henchman with Bum. After Pam´s accident, JR started to act out-of-character and turn into someone who homaged himself often, with so many JR-isms. It looked as if JR himself was a bit tired of being JR... He wasn´t scary, he did just what any (unethical) business man would do, like blackmailing The Jeremy to get his properties back.
JR was the man who drank alone in his office at night when sister-in-laws hit the streets... He only had to blink to make Swellin tremble just thinking of the sanitarium... But also everybody in the oil business was afraid and/or angry with him, and those were the powerful men (and a few women) in Dallas. Did he need to be softened? I don´t think so. Especially when in the latter seasons also characters like Cliff and McKay also were softened. What was left? Sheila Foley and Lee Ann de la Vega, who sort of castrated both Bobby and JR. Go figure...
See here Lee Ann´s fashions when she dated JR as Ms. Nelson!
Last edited:
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
I agree with most of what you said, but some of those people you mentioned didn’t fear JR. Bobby and Jeremy Windell never feared him.
Last edited:
Ollie james
Telly Talk Active Member
Early seasons JR was an iconic character and made the show itself iconic as a result. The later years of Dallas thrashed the show and the characters in a way that's hard to forgive. I know I'm in the minority saying this but I'm glad for tnt Dallas because we saw glimpses of the JR Ewing we knew and loved and you could see Hagman was relishing the role once again. Pairing him with Josh Henderson was a master stroke that version of John Ross was played to perfection. Also it offered a belated but half decent attempt at bringing closure to Pams story so for these reasons I'm not ever too hard in my assessment of Tnt Dallas because I think compared to the later seasons of the original it was far superior.
JR started seeming less scary during the dream season, when he became friendly with Jack (an outsider who essentially used reverse blackmail to get 10% of Ewing Oil) and when he went to a costume party with Angelica wearing an outfit with some sort of plant on top of his head. He looked extremely foolish.
Jock Ewing Fan
Telly Talk Star
I agree. JR seemed less powerful during the dream season. I did like the scene where he addresses the empty chair in Bobby's office about how
only the two of them really understood the importance of Ewing Oil.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
They made him more likeable during the dream season.
He and Sue Ellen actually came to an understanding during their marriage. They became a proper couple.
The only thing wrong with that is it's conflict between characters which makes for good drama.
That had to be reversed in season ten. Making JR likeable whilst a good idea is no good unless he's being a bad ass to other characters, which to a certain extent he was. However when the timeline got reversed in season ten when Katzman returned, he managed to give the proper balance in the character as regards being good & evil.
The dream season isn't a bad season but I feel that Bobby's resurrection from the dead with hindsight actually ruined the popularity of Dallas in the long term.
If only they had stuck with the reveal that Ben Stivers was Jock Ewing in the original season nine cliff hanger.
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
yep, when watching the dream season a couple of years ago for the first time since it aired when I was a kid, I finally understood (just a bit) where some of the enthusiasm for JR and Sue Ellen as an actual loving couple might have come from. They were all unironically supportive and communicative and vulnerable - crazy!
By the end of the year, the Ewings (who mostly weren’t Ewings) would all gather in the living room for cocktails and politely discuss how their days went as the others listened attentively and supportively. It was like an alternate universe… which I guess it was!
I will say, though, when I went straight on to the next season it was jarring when everyone went back to being petty bickering jerks, to the point where I actually missed the friendly, decent, reasonably good husband Cliff Barnes among others.
It was bizarre, as if someone were secretly pumping nitrous oxide into Southfork. I remember seeing a family dinner scene toward the end of the season with all these outsiders at the table, and everyone was so nicey-nice that it was like watching an episode of ”The Waltons.”
alovelylady7991
Telly Talk Member
...but it wasn't just JR who became "less" - the character of Miss Ellie became weaker- as the series progressed- too. The "wringing" of her hands and the crying fits became more & more frequent on screen and her efforts to reign-in JR's worst instincts proved time & again to bring her to tears - instead of actually having some important outcome - like the earlier seasons. To sum it up, Miss Ellie was once a "Steel Magnolia" - who turned into something of a weeping willow.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
Unfortunately for Barbara Bel Geddes, like the character of Lucy the writers didn't know what to do with Miss Ellie other than marrying her off to Clayton Farlow.
The introduction of Wes Parmalee in season ten did give her a decent storyline, was he or wasn't he Jock Ewing? A shame the writers decided on the latter because having Jock back would've made the character of Miss Ellie more central to the storylines rather than revolving the series around the antics of JR and Bobby.
A shame, as getting rid of Steve Forrest really diminished the character of Miss Ellie as played by the lovely Barbara Bel Geddes.
Unfortuntely shows overtime will water down characters to be less than what they once were. Daytime shows are known for that.
Larry Hagman and the writers were careful not to make JR over the top evil but I think they also made him a paper tiger over time.
That is why I don't buy what some fans feel that JR killed Kristen. We saw that JR is not into killing. He had a chance to kill Cliff on the field when they were rescuing Bobby or when Pamela kidnapped John Ross, JR did not have her killed.
As for when JR became watered down, the Hayleyville Storyline was the start. There is no way a man like JR Ewing would not have made the people of that town hell for putting through that. Worst was the sheriff coming to JR's office which was stupid.
Larry Hagman and the writers were careful not to make JR over the top evil but I think they also made him a paper tiger over time.
That is why I don't buy what some fans feel that JR killed Kristen. We saw that JR is not into killing. He had a chance to kill Cliff on the field when they were rescuing Bobby or when Pamela kidnapped John Ross, JR did not have her killed.
As for when JR became watered down, the Hayleyville Storyline was the start. There is no way a man like JR Ewing would not have made the people of that town hell for putting through that. Worst was the sheriff coming to JR's office which was stupid.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Katzman didn't like women "tough" while living under the roof of Southfork -- which is where Ellie always was. And, yes, crushing Ellie is, to my mind, the biggest mistake latter DALLAS ever made (not killing April, for godsakes). All the early lead female characters eventually came into their own --- except for Miss Ellie. And during the closing seasons, when she was the only remaining woman character on DALLAS and the primary remaining representative of the family's home life, instead of making her stronger they just made her wimpier, turned her into Winnie the Pooh, gave her fewer scenes, and then fired her ( once again, this time publicly admitting they'd fired her) and the program continued to sputter to its death, like an oil well that's tapped out.
Again, one of the best things about misfire nuDALLAS, is that they found ways to make JR threatening again, often displaying The Wisdom of an Evil Man... One of my favorite scenes in the TNT show was where JR, in a half-darkened room, said, "don't you know rich folks never go to jail?... But the people who clean-up for them do." (Or words to that effect).
That sort of cynical insight is something you might hear from JR in the very early days of the original DALLAS, but never after, say, 1984.
So JR became less scary not because of whether he did or didn't kill Kristin, but because we once weren't sure that he might not be capable of it.
That's all about tone. And nobody necessarily as to die to achieve it.
Again, one of the best things about misfire nuDALLAS, is that they found ways to make JR threatening again, often displaying The Wisdom of an Evil Man... One of my favorite scenes in the TNT show was where JR, in a half-darkened room, said, "don't you know rich folks never go to jail?... But the people who clean-up for them do." (Or words to that effect).
That sort of cynical insight is something you might hear from JR in the very early days of the original DALLAS, but never after, say, 1984.
So JR became less scary not because of whether he did or didn't kill Kristin, but because we once weren't sure that he might not be capable of it.
That's all about tone. And nobody necessarily as to die to achieve it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Barbara Bel Geddes was not fired. She declined to accept the contract that was offered to her, because she wanted a larger salary and fewer hours. Let’s say I go to my employer and say that I want a $1,000,000 annual salary and Fridays off, and they say we’ll give you $500,000 and you don’t get Fridays off. I choose not to accept their offer. That’s not the same as being fired.