How was it determined Digger, Gary, and Sue Ellen were the alcoholics?

[Peedur]

They all drank all day long.

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

I agree. They went out of their way to give anybody that wasn’t a core Ewing (Jock, Miss Ellie, JR and Bobby) a fatal flaw.

But the reason Digger, Sue Ellen and Gary were considered alcoholics was because their drinking consumed them.

 

[the-lost-son]

When you're giving a once in a lifetime performance of the yellow rose of Texas or if you're throwing some cooking wine through Southfork stairwall, then you get pigeonholed.

 

[Peedur]

When you're giving a once in a lifetime performance of the yellow rose of Texas or if you're throwing some cooking wine through Southfork stairwall, then you get pigeonholed.

Funny you should mention that. I always felt a haunted episode would have been cool as well, not counting Conundrum with Satan's lieutenant prowling Southfork. I envisioned Master Bedroom window open, curtains billowing from the wind, and the melodic voice of Digger's rendition of yellow rose drifting through the open window. For added gravity Miss Ellie can get out of bed slam the window say damnit Digger you know I'm suffering from a Migraine headache!!!

 

[the-lost-son]

I recently read an article about the alcohol consumption on a daily basis. Today WHO recommends no more than 10gram - that's a (very) small beer (0,25ml).
Back in 70s doctor's recommended no more than 70gram (1,75l) per day as maximum.
Doctors back then focused primarily on the risk of liver cirrhosis. That's how it was portrayed in Dallas for example. You keep going till your organs can't cope anymore. (Digger end of s2/SueEllen in rehab).

The other risks (eg. cardiovascular diseases, cancer or especially dementia) were not linked to alcohol back in the 70s. Therefor the decreased recommendation by WHO today. But I doubt that would have been intriguing TV.

You're making a valid point in this thread though. Germany's first law about alcohol in traffic was made in 1973 (!) and for the next few years it wasn't checked actually (according to a relative of mine).

So the only indication of being an alcoholic was the inability to control your liquor and to make a spectacle out of yourself on a constant basis. Dallas tried to prove that to the audience by having Digger/Sue Ellen in numberous scenes being passed out.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I'm trying to remember what Miss Ellie liked to drink. I can't remember if it was white wine or sherry?

 

[the-lost-son]

I'm trying to remember what Miss Ellie liked to drink. I can't remember if it was white wine or sherry?

I think it was white wine.
But probably both. That's why she had to be driven all the time.

 

[Mustard]

Three very different kinds of alcoholics.

Digger liked to drink, but he could also stop for a while to get work, get more money to afford more drink, see his family etc.
Gary simply couldn't function if he was drinking alcohol, and would quickly hit rock bottom pretty damn hard
Sue Ellen, when drinking, was either embarrassing or not able to function, mixed in with low self-esteem

Gary is what's known as a non-functioning alcoholic, while Digger was just about a functioning alcoholic to an extent even if he did constantly moan about Jock Ewing and didn't move on from it. Digger was a conscious wanderer when drinking. Sue Ellen's drinking was more slow burn, where it would eat away at her self-esteem some more and eventually harm herself and those around her more.

Episodes 12-13 of Season 1 of Knots Landing (the last two episodes of that season, called "Bottom of the Bottle") show what happens when Gary Ewing falls off the wagon. It's pretty damn ugly, and the speed with which it happens is scary. Val ends up lying that Gary tried to commit suicide in order to get him committed to a hospital. When Gary was forced to choose by a detox doctor into choosing between Val and booze, he chose the booze, which Val witnessed. Earlier, Gary had stolen a bottle of booze from a homeless man, and a shop worker pulled a gun on Gary to warn him off trying to take booze by force. All this had started when Gary's boss Sid Fairgate (who didn't know Gary was an alcoholic) offered him glasses of champagne to celebrate a promotion at Knots Landing Motors. The look on Val's face when Gary gulped down the champagne was one of sheer horror, and when they got back home, he was taunting her really badly. This just wouldn't happen with a drunk Digger or Sue Ellen.

 

[tommie]

Three very different kinds of alcoholics.

Digger liked to drink, but he could also stop for a while to get work, get more money to afford more drink, see his family etc.
Gary simply couldn't function if he was drinking alcohol, and would quickly hit rock bottom pretty damn hard
Sue Ellen, when drinking, was either embarrassing or not able to function, mixed in with low self-esteem

Yup, pretty good summary of it - I had an uncle who was in Digger's category; he'd get work and work very hard for a few months at a time, then he'd f**k off for a few months and live like a fish in a bottle for maybe three months and wash, rinse, repeat. I'd guess you could make an argument for JR being an example of a functional alcoholic since he'd so often have a drink in hand and would probably be slightly buzzed in real life (maybe even fueling his own sociopathy?). But mostly I just assume it was down to ignorance at the time about the harm alcohol did - I mean, no one really reacted over the fact that Swellin' was drinking like a fish when she was pregnant with John Ross; it became an issue when she started embarrassing the family with her antics.

 

[Chase Gioberti]

I agree. They went out of their way to give anybody that wasn’t a core Ewing (Jock, Miss Ellie, JR and Bobby) a fatal flaw.

But the reason Digger, Sue Ellen and Gary were considered alcoholics was because their drinking consumed them.

So your argument is that sex addicted JR, costing him multiple marriages among other problems, had no fatal flaw? Holier than thou Bobby, whose belief in his own infallibility cost him multiple relationships including the worthy Holly Harwood, had no fatal flaw? Jealous and no self-esteem Ray had no fatal flaw?

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

So your argument is that sex addicted JR, costing him multiple marriages among other problems, had no fatal flaw? Holier than thou Bobby, whose belief in his own infallibility cost him multiple relationships including the worthy Holly Harwood, had no fatal flaw? Jealous and no self-esteem Ray had no fatal flaw?

All of the Ewing family had flaws.

Even Miss Ellie and especially Jock. JR might've been the evil character but he was just as flawed as everyone else.

The only difference with most of the Ewing family not including JR is that they were redeemable.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

They were a brood (or "brewed"?) of largely-functional alcoholics. Sue Ellen and Gary got the label to confer secondary status upon them within the family.

Digger was never really in the family, so his alcoholism was "just there".

 

[Sea - Boo! - Er]

I think it was white wine.

That whole "white wine" thing always puzzled me. Most of the women seemed to order it. But there are a lot of white wines. Did they not care exactly what they got?

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

So your argument is that sex addicted JR, costing him multiple marriages among other problems, had no fatal flaw? Holier than thou Bobby, whose belief in his own infallibility cost him multiple relationships including the worthy Holly Harwood, had no fatal flaw? Jealous and no self-esteem Ray had no fatal flaw?

I clearly said the core Ewings (Jock, Miss Ellie, JR and Bobby). Ray’s fatal flaw was his insecurity and low-self esteem.

As for JR and Bobby’s flaws, their flaws didn’t destroy their lives. JR cheated on Sue Ellen from day one. Did it destroy his life? Sue Ellen’s alcoholism was interfering in her life. How many times did they have to drag her back from a bar? Mickey’s accident that causes his death. She got into an accident after she broke out of the sanitarium.

Bobby’s breakup with Pam is tricky because I think Pam was equally responsible for the divorce. But was Bobby’s life ever destroyed because of his flaws, unlike Digger’s and Gary’s for awhile?

And since when is Holly Harwood worthy? She’s another guilty party in the death of Mickey.

 

[Chase Gioberti]

I clearly said the core Ewings (Jock, Miss Ellie, JR and Bobby). Ray’s fatal flaw was his insecurity and low-self esteem.

As for JR and Bobby’s flaws, their flaws didn’t destroy their lives. JR cheated on Sue Ellen from day one. Did it destroy his life? Sue Ellen’s alcoholism was interfering in her life. How many times did they have to drag her back from a bar? Mickey’s accident that causes his death. She got into an accident after she broke out of the sanitarium.

Bobby’s breakup with Pam is tricky because I think Pam was equally responsible for the divorce. But was Bobby’s life ever destroyed because of his flaws, unlike Digger’s and Gary’s for awhile?

And since when is Holly Harwood worthy? She’s another guilty party in the death of Mickey.

I would argue it destroyed JRs life. Cost him his marriage the first time. His wife left with his child. Led directly to the death of Mickey in the second marriage. Cost him Weststar and led directly to the death of Nicholas Pierce. Cost him his marriage with Cally. At the end he is all alone and pointing a gun to his head. Sure he is rich throughout but his life is in shambles.

 

[Chase Gioberti]

I clearly said the core Ewings (Jock, Miss Ellie, JR and Bobby). Ray’s fatal flaw was his insecurity and low-self esteem.

As for JR and Bobby’s flaws, their flaws didn’t destroy their lives. JR cheated on Sue Ellen from day one. Did it destroy his life? Sue Ellen’s alcoholism was interfering in her life. How many times did they have to drag her back from a bar? Mickey’s accident that causes his death. She got into an accident after she broke out of the sanitarium.

Bobby’s breakup with Pam is tricky because I think Pam was equally responsible for the divorce. But was Bobby’s life ever destroyed because of his flaws, unlike Digger’s and Gary’s for awhile?

And since when is Holly Harwood worthy? She’s another guilty party in the death of Mickey.

Holly is worthy of Bobby because she wanted him from the start and was noble but flawed. She wanted JR out of company. Bobby is as much or more to blame for the death of Mickey. He set up Walt Driscoll. Probably should have done some jail time, running guns like that.

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

Holly is worthy of Bobby because she wanted him from the start and was noble but flawed. She wanted JR out of company. Bobby is as much or more to blame for the death of Mickey. He set up Walt Driscoll. Probably should have done some jail time, running guns like that.

Holly was far from being noble. She went after a married man and what she did to Sue Ellen was nasty. Absolutely Bobby AND Ray were as responsible for Micky’s death as JR was and they all should have went to jail.

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

I would argue it destroyed JRs life. Cost him his marriage the first time. His wife left with his child. Led directly to the death of Mickey in the second marriage. Cost him Weststar and led directly to the death of Nicholas Pierce. Cost him his marriage with Cally. At the end he is all alone and pointing a gun to his head. Sure he is rich throughout but his life is in shambles.

JR wasn’t affected by any of that until he was totally defeated in the end. You actually think JR cared about Micky and Nicholas Pierce. He and Sue Ellen acted as if they could have cared less that their BS led to Mickey’s death. Sue Ellen even acted like she was totally exonerated after she found out that Driscoll was trying to kill JR.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

JR wasn’t affected by any of that until he was totally defeated in the end. You actually think JR cared about Micky and Nicholas Pierce. He and Sue Ellen acted as if they could have cared less that their BS led to Mickey’s death. Sue Ellen even acted like she was totally exonerated after she found out that Driscoll was trying to kill JR.

Sue Ellen was more responsible for Mickey's death because the only reason he was in the car was to stop her from driving it whilst as drunk as a Dallas skunk!

Poor Lucy obviously blamed herself for shouting at Mickey to stop her.

JR & Sue Ellen were as usual only looking out for their own interests.

 

[A Nightmare on Jimmy Todd Street]

Sue Ellen was more responsible for Mickey's death because the only reason he was in the car was to stop her from driving it whilst as drunk as a Dallas skunk!

Poor Lucy obviously blamed herself for shouting at Mickey to stop her.

JR & Sue Ellen were as usual only looking out for their own interests.

Sue Ellen's non-reaction to Mickey's death is a stain on her character. Lucy should have slapped her across the face and Miss Ellie and Clayton should have really chewed her out for it instead of treating her as the ultimate victim.
Her casual dismissal of it was her lowest point in the series and showed she could be as bad as JR. Her reaction was much worse than what Holly did to her, and at least Holly showed remorse.