Why Did Philip Capice Leave Dallas?

[Angela Channing]

In an episode in season 12 when Sue Ellen is making her film about JR, Bruce Harvey introduces her to someone as being the executive producer. Her input was mainly to supply the money and to find a producer to realise her vision. I suspect that was similar to Larry's role: he became an investor in the show in return for a share of the profits. That way they could pay him more money without the other principle actors on the show feeling they being underpaid.

 

[Chris2]

I don’t think Larry was actually investing any of his own money in the show. He didn’t have his own production company or anything. They just gave him that title and paid him more. Very few actors who get the title of “executive producer” actually do much producing. They get input on storylines but that’s it. One notable exception is Jerry Seinfeld, who became the showrunner on his series after his original producing partner, Larry David, left. It’s possible Hagman had profit participation in the later years, though.

 

[Seaviewer]

Larry sniped in the press (when Paulsen did leave in 1988) that his exit was probably a good thing because Paulsen supposedly lacked a sense of humor.

Which may partially explain the increasing lack of gravitas after that.

 

[pete lashmar]

Great documentary that I watched today on youtube, it tells some very familiar stories but also goes into the Katzman/Capice/Hagman conflict.

 

[rkhullar]

Larry Hagman as much as I do like and respect, was given way too much power on Dallas, and it eventually ruined the show,

Katzman and Capice were both needed on Dallas, they balanced each other out, yet I do feel Capice had a better understanding of Dallas than Katzman, Capice knew Pam would eventually have to battle JR once Bobby was killed off, though he did mess up.in this area, I'd sooner watch season 9 than season 11 onwards.

Its a load of bull and you know it. If it wasn't for Phillip Capice there would have been no bond stuff. We should have gone forward if it wasn't for that dream season the subsequent seasons after could have been moved up and therefore would have been more trustworthy and ratings would have stayed high. How can you tell me that BD Calhoun wasn't a big deal. I live in and have been in Texas my whole life. I remember the price of oil dipping causing real estate to dip as well. Here in Dallas real estate was down for almost 2 years because we were diversifying the economy out of oil. That recession was tough. The credibility was lost because of that stupid season. I am glad Phillip Capice was fired. Season 9 was an embarrassment. How else could you have sat there and reversed it without some kind of caveat be it Pam's dream. Because of that credibility was lost. Your telling me the fight for Weststar. Jeremy Wendell and the range wars. Please tell me George Kennedy being part of Dallas wasn't special. Writing Weststar in was what needed to be done because the Texas Independent was slowly dying and could no longer survive. Now other than maybe the last season and the whole Callie thing are things I agree shouldn't have been done. To me it wasn't that bad in the closing years. Again if it wasn't for this stupid season we are talking about we could have seen earlier more of Jeremy Wendell Weststar other things that needed to come to pass. and it would have moved things up and made more sense. It was Larry that wanted those things and too Leonard Katzman not Philip Capice. If anything Leonard Katzman may have saved Dallas from itself. Those of y'all that think Larry had too much power. NO HE DIDN"T. Philp Capice is a liar. Go back and look. The Idea of Ray Crebbs being Jock's illegitimate son was Larry Hagman's idea. Steve Kanaly complained and wanted to leave because no really understood why Ray Crebbs was around. So Larry Hagman and him had a discussion and they thought it up. Larry and Steve went to Leonard Katzman he agreed. Philip Capice denied that story and said it was the natural progression. Phillip Capice needed to go. How else was Leonard Katzman going to clean up the mess Phillip Capice made. Larry followed procedure he didn't just do what he wanted. Phillip Capice must have had mental illness during season 9. Barbara Carrera the whole Angelica Nero thing it was rubbish all of it. As a Texan by the way I am telling you what you saw in those later seasons does fit what was Texas independents in real life. What about the whole Parmalee deal. Your telling me those subsequent seasons didn't keep your interests peaked at least until the last season. Now the last season with Susan Lucci and OPEC and all that yea Leondard Katzman did mess that up. The Callie thing was stupid. I agree with those sentiments but again if it wasn't for that stupid dream season it might have been a little different. That is all I am saying.

 

[rkhullar]

Paulsen wanted to leave DALLAS that season, and one has to wonder why. Larry sniped in the press (when Paulsen did leave in 1988) that his exit was probably a good thing because Paulsen supposedly lacked a sense of humor.

Katzman saved the show. Once again the whole fight for Weststar your telling me that didn't excite people. JR's revenge on Weststar. That stupid Ho Kimberly Crieter. Seriously are yall out of your minds?

 

[rkhullar]

I don't know exactly what happened, but I am guessing that the "creative conflicts" mentioned referred to Capice not agreeing with Larry and "Uncle" Lenny that making Dallas into a parody was a wonderful idea. I think that most of know that it was NOT a good idea

Phillip Capice caused that floundering. Some of the Subsequent seasons would have been clearer had they been moved up and that stupid dream season not exist.

 

[Rove]

I also think Larry being given the credit of executive producer with Katzman is over-played in terms of Larry's creative input.

Larry had more input then I thought. I was reading an old Australian newspaper article in which Larry spoke of his role as Executive Producer and he was the one that chose Cathy Podewell to play Cally Harper. Okay then.

 

[Mustard]

Larry had more input then I thought. I was reading an old Australian newspaper article in which Larry spoke of his role as Executive Producer and he was the one that chose Cathy Podewell to play Cally Harper. Okay then.

Cathy was the best thing about those late seasons.

 

[southfork88]

Cathy was the best thing about those late seasons.

I confirm. Cathy said so in a 1992 Italian video interview.

 

[Laurie Marr]

Podwell said was great and the Pygmalion storyline was interesting. It was let down by the fact that the Ewings were hardly high society sophisticates and JR was certainly no Henry Higgins. Nevertheless one of the more entertaining plots in the generally substandard post-Pam era.

 

[Seaviewer]

Cathy was the best thing about those late seasons.

Agreed. I've said that Cally was the last new character that I truly cared about.

 

[rkhullar]

Larry had more input then I thought. I was reading an old Australian newspaper article in which Larry spoke of his role as Executive Producer and he was the one that chose Cathy Podewell to play Cally Harper. Okay then.

I agree with that. I didn't say everything in the subsequencies was great I did say that the Cali thing was a dumb idea and the reason that that was done wasn't necessarily Larry it was because the 18 through 54 model the younger side was not watching although I was much younger than 18 and I was watching so yes I agree with that it was a bad tactical move but again all of that was a result of the desperation of that dream season messing up the credibility how else could you undo what Philip capice did and that was the risk that you took. Keep in mind also in addition to that Dallas was losing writers which is why Victoria principal wanted to leave. She only extended it to 87 for 2 years after a seven-year deal and not the full four years like they thought she would because she had complained about writing declining well imagine you know Philip capice accelerated that so yes I do agree with you on this we're not arguing over that point I'm just saying that you have to take all the factors into totality.

 

[rkhullar]

Again folks let me be very clear. I live here in Dallas I was born and raised here. What was going on in the oil industry at that time was indicative of what they were writing. I do remember a recession where real estate went down over here and it probably wasn't until maybe the late '80s early 1990 where we started to diversify our economy. So the writers did have to make up stuff in a way. Again it's not just Larry there are more factors at work. I don't think the Cali thing was a good idea personally. I do think that in the later years the focus should have been more on the fights with Weststar. Maybe keeping Wendell longer maybe witnessing a fight between Wendell and McKay for westar as opposed to riding Wendell off. The reason that was done is because William smithers asked for more money or his agent did and they decided to write his character out and not renew the contract. I think they should have kept William smithers I think there should have been a duel for West Star between him and Carter McKay George Kennedy. I think a fight like that and then the Ewing's getting in that and Clif barnes and Cartel in mix that would have been a much better focus than having a Cali and all this other stuff. Having Wendell get away with the range wars and not being able to pin it on him entirely that would have been interesting to see how that would have worked out. See Wendell doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would have started a range war but wouldn't have been interesting if he got away with it. I don't know how because he admitted it on tape but they could have done more other things than Callie and other stuff they could have been more creative. I think more of West Star should have been earlier. I think we should have seen more of not just Weststar but I'm a big corporations trying to eat the Independents that would have been more fun. But again Philip capice did not have the brain he was a moron and I'm glad he's gone

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

It’s a load of bull and you know it. If it wasn't for Phillip Capice there would have been no bond stuff. We should have gone forward if it wasn't for that dream season the subsequent seasons after could have been moved up and therefore would have been more trustworthy and ratings would have stayed high. How can you tell me that BD Calhoun wasn't a big deal. I live in and have been in Texas my whole life. I remember the price of oil dipping causing real estate to dip as well. Here in Dallas real estate was down for almost 2 years because we were diversifying the economy out of oil. That recession was tough. The credibility was lost because of that stupid season. I am glad Phillip Capice was fired. Season 9 was an embarrassment. How else could you have sat there and reversed it without some kind of caveat be it Pam's dream. Because of that credibility was lost. You’re telling me the fight for Weststar. Jeremy Wendell and the range wars. Please tell me George Kennedy being part of Dallas wasn't special. Writing Weststar in was what needed to be done because the Texas Independent was slowly dying and could no longer survive. Now other than maybe the last season and the whole Callie thing are things I agree shouldn't have been done. To me it wasn't that bad in the closing years. Again if it wasn't for this stupid season we are talking about we could have seen earlier more of Jeremy Wendell Weststar other things that needed to come to pass. and it would have moved things up and made more sense. It was Larry that wanted those things and too Leonard Katzman not Philip Capice. If anything Leonard Katzman may have saved Dallas from itself. Those of y'all that think Larry had too much power. NO HE DIDN"T. Philp Capice is a liar. Go back and look. The Idea of Ray Crebbs being Jock's illegitimate son was Larry Hagman's idea. Steve Kanaly complained and wanted to leave because no really understood why Ray Crebbs was around. So Larry Hagman and him had a discussion and they thought it up. Larry and Steve went to Leonard Katzman he agreed. Philip Capice denied that story and said it was the natural progression. Phillip Capice needed to go. How else was Leonard Katzman going to clean up the mess Phillip Capice made. Larry followed procedure he didn't just do what he wanted. Phillip Capice must have had mental illness during season 9. Barbara Carrera the whole Angelica Nero thing it was rubbish all of it. As a Texan by the way I am telling you what you saw in those later seasons does fit what was Texas independents in real life. What about the whole Parmalee deal. Your telling me those subsequent seasons didn't keep your interests peaked at least until the last season. Now the last season with Susan Lucci and OPEC and all that yea Leondard Katzman did mess that up. The Callie thing was stupid. I agree with those sentiments but again if it wasn't for that stupid dream season it might have been a little different. That is all I am saying.

Okay, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, just like I’m entitled to mine, seasons 11-14 were garbage

 

[Barbara Fan]

I will take Mini, S1-6 original and 8 original any day over the last few years which as time went on were Dallas in name only

The Range War, BD Calhoun, anything Cally, April, Michelle, James, McKay Clan, dreadful Rose, - well I will pass on that and would FWD now = and just about anything after VP left with hindsight wasnt that great, final 2-3 years were pretty poor and final year wasnt Dallas at all and I have never watched final year again and the DVD is still in the cellophane

I will take a Dallas with Katzman and Capice - the yin and Yang of Dallas worked

Katzman and Hagman did not

 

[rkhullar]

Look let's clear up something cuz I think you people don't seem to understand. I lived in Dallas for real and what you have to understand is that in order to be able to see the reality or as close to reality is it can be you have to depict what's there. Having said that I do agree that the latter seasons were not as entertaining perhaps I might be more subject to them because of my age I'm only 47 so I watch those with more intensity as I was just starting to learn. That said what y'all have said is correct the ratings are the true story here and it is true that those seasons were in fact better the stats show that. My point was very simple there were things in those last seasons that I probably wouldn't have done but there were things that I'm glad we're done because that's exactly how Texas is. Having said that also and please keep this in mind I didn't agree with everything they wrote I didn't like the Cali I didn't like James I didn't like any of that stuff I agree with you. I think they did a foolish things there but again this show lost its credibility because of Philip capice. If we hadn't had that stupid season of bond garbage and Angelica Nero and all that other you know rubbish as you like to call it in England. Perhaps it would have been different because once a show loses its credibility and it doesn't have the right writers then who else takes control. This is still Philip Capice's fault because he put that rubbish season. Suppose we had your logic. For one katsman would have left if capice wasn't gone. He's so much has said that Larry hagman wanted to leave the show if capice wasn't gone. As for VP she set a date of 1987 to leave back in 8485 when she started seeing writers leave she knew the writing was going to go bad. But even she will tell you that if Larry hagman had not stood up to get rid of Philip capice then she might have left even earlier. So this idea that yes those last four seasons were garbage not all of them not all of it that's my point. You have to understand new TV shows were coming out the '80s we're starting to come to an end the way of thinking was changing. And going back to what I was saying earlier Dallas itself was changing. I'm a resident here I've been born and raised in the Dallas area and I've lived here my whole life and I'm telling you we were going through the transition away from oil to a more diverse economy. So when you put all those things together this was bound to happen. They tried to make it as close to reality as they could and a lot of times in some of these upper Texas families these things do happen. So you guys have to take that and understand that in perpetuity. Now I'm not going to argue all with y'all about this anymore. Bottom line Philip capice messed up The credibility of this show and once that's done it doesn't matter what happens it's very hard to get it back. Leonard katzman basically was bullied by Philip Capice in that season where they did that Angelica Nero garbage and if Capice had not left Katzman would have gone so this notion that Katsman and Capice together would have continued to work no Capice was a liar Capice was rubbish and I'm glad he's dead

 

[AndyB2008]

Phil Capice was there in the early years during their ratings glory - did he lose the show credibility then and was he rubbish then?

Certainly when he left, there was no one (as I believe other posters have mentioned) to work alongside Katzman (David Jacobs pointed out that were the yin and the yang, as has Barbara Fan up the thread) .

Add to the fact Lorimar and Telepictures merged (I believe the Telepictures executives came in) and they began cutting cast.

If rkhullah thinks Capice is so bad and destroyed Dallas, he's obviously not seen what Eileen and Robert Pollock did to Dynasty. (I don't think Capice blamed the actors either for storyline problems like what The Pollocks did, especially with Linda Evans and Joan Collins when the first half of Season 6 was tanking badly. According to the Pollocks, it was Linda's idea ref the Rita stuff, and yet in reality Linda thought it stupid).

 

[rkhullar]

I never watched Dynasty. I am biased I am a Texan. Look yall criticisms are not unwarranted nor do I disagree with some of them. I appreciate that certain things I wouldn't have done either. My point is look VP Left and told them in 85 that her concern was the writing wasn't there. She pretty much knew when the drop in ratings would happen. She timed things perfectly. I think no party really addressed that issue. Sometimes actors get paid so much and the credit goes to them but when a show fails we blame the writers right. I think that is a lot of this. Having said that. Capice was foolish to make Dallas look like a Bond series situation. Then the question becomes ok how do you undo that. So while it might seem stupid and nuts to have Pam wake up from a nasty dream how else could you undo that. My argument was after the season where you had PD leave. That's when they should have written things in a way that would be more forward thinking. That's when Weststar should have greater influence. In other words. Lets say Patrick Duffy had to come back. Maybe you could have made the last episode of how he died a dream perhaps. Even though he died and wanted to come back. I imagine not a dream but something to make him come back. Once you kill a character its hard to bring that character and then on top of which reverse nonsense unless you do what they did. If yall love PD how else would any of yall brought PD back. Like I said if Capice had not done that stupid season and brought Weststar in earlier. We could have some fun here. I think the whole BD Calhoun thing happening the season later that could have been moved up a season as I said earlier. Philip Capice again lies when he says that the issue of Ray Crebbs being Jock's child was progression no it wasn't. As I said before this has been documented it was Larry's idea to keep Steve Kanally from leaving. Again actually if you go back really far in the first 3 episodes he was fooling around with Lucy. So they never did explain that. But even then Larry ran the idea with Steve they took it to Katsman and it was signed off. So yeah Larry had impact even during that time. Understand Katzman basically was forced out during that so called dream season. Again I stress this because I think you guys need to understand while I agree that a lot of things should have been done way differently between seasons 11-14. Understand America and TV in general was coming to a new age. Texas itself its not as much to cover a bad recession and also in general the writing wasn't there in the closing years as VP was great at pointing out. Again PD wanted to do his thing. How else do yall think they could have brought back PD? Again I think yall are right on a few things. When It comes to Cally situation and the last season in particular ABSOLUTELY. I do think Linda Gray leaving early wasn't good. As you started to see Sue Ellen gain strength that also made JR weaker which in turn doesn't build ratings but then again Bobby beat him for Ewing Oil narrowly and he still came back. So like I said yall have to keep everything in perspective. But Phillip Capice should not have done that Angelica Nero season. It was ridiculous meaningless and plain stupid. He could have gotten better ratings if what had happened with BD Calhoun and losing Ewing Oil would have been done season before and like I said that would have been harder but probably more interesting to bring PD Back.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Phil Capice was instrumental in making the show in its first seven years a huge success, granted season 8 was repetitive and season 9 went OTT (to be fair s9 aired in 1986…the year the 80s went crazy)

Capice and Katzman were the yin and Yang, season 9 was a taste of what DALLAS was like without Katzman and seasons 11-14 was DALLAS without Capice or much of the original cast

I tend to prefer season 9 because the original cast were still there, yes it becam too much like Dynasty, but seasons 11-14 lost a large chunk of the original cast that made Dallas work so well, and that’s the difference for me, as crazy as season 9 was, we still had Pam, Sue Ellen, Ray, Miss Ellie etc around, season 10 isn’t as bad as like season 9 the cast was still there plus Bobby for what it was worth was back, but the rot was beginning to set.