• A little forum update...We're planning an upgrade.

    Find out more about what's planned and how you can help support the forum

    Click here for the details

The Pammy Principle.

LMLDallas78

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
It's no secret I'm a massive Sue Ellen fan which started at a very young age and grew. I also adore Linda Gray which came a little later. As a newish arrival to this forum I'm fascinated by the love for Pamela/ Victoria Principal. I also loved her at the very beginning, but something happened to her character that just wasn't exciting anymore. I never found her portrayal of suffering a breakdown at all convincing and I felt her acting at times was rather limited. I know I'll be in the minority here and would've loved to have been part of previous threads about Sue Ellen. I would be so interested to know your reasons for loving Pam, is it Pam and Victoria? I think I need to be reminded why she was/is so loved.
 
C

Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
I thought the writing for Pam was inconsistent. In the early episodes, it’s clear she’s a strong woman and takes no crap from people. But then they weakened her with her constantly leaving Bobby, the mental breakdown, her various baby woes, and her mommy issues. Plus, Victoria was a green performer early on and her performances could be uneven..

Victoria’s performance greatly improves during the second half of her run. Oddly, the later episodes in which Pam seems most true to her original characterization are the ones where she’s not married to Bobby. Once she’s remarried and on Southfork again, it’s back to the baby woes (this time being jealousy of Jenna’s baby).
 
Barbara Fan

Barbara Fan

Admin
First and foremost there were 3 reasons I watched Dallas in the early days

1st for BBG and then for Bobby and Pamela - who were my favourite couple and they had it all.
Young, sexy, newly married and looked as if they couldnt keep their hands off one another and I will always say they were the Romeo and Juliet of Dallas

I also think that Victoria Principla was the sexiest and most stunning looking woman on the planet - she topped just about every poll out in the 80s and she was the Dallas Golden Girl,

But above all that she was the most important FEMALE character on the show, after JR as the most important male actor on Dallas

Pamela was the link, the one who joined it all up.

The link - Bobby and Pam V their family at SF, Barnes V Ewing, Digger and Cliff V Jock and JR - the link between the past, present and the future

Thats why when Victoria Left - it was the biggest single loss of any character on the show - the link had gone and it was never the same again and it went downhill from there.

I loved early Pam - and even VP said on Wogan "she had a little more fire" but she had varied storylines and I never had an issue with her acting, but I didnt think she could cry "well"
Some of her storylines and the writing werent great for her and I will never hold it against VP for leaving, she jumped ship at the right time and she went on to even bigger success post Dallas and made megabucks, a very bright and shrewd cookie with a very level headed sense of business. I do get the feeling her costars may have been a little jealous of her success.

I also dont mind that she and PD may not have had the best of relationships off screen but on screen they did and it worked as Pam and Bobby. It was believable and real and i loved them together. I also loved her with Mark Graison too.

In her final season She was over protective of Christopher and was not the Pam of early years who would slap JR, tear off a stip of Jock and JR and more than hold her own in the Ewing household

For me early Sue Ellen was too much of the eyes a rollin' and lips a tremblin' (that we used to imitate at school) but i think her acting improved as time went on

I also loved that Pamela was the daughter Miss Ellie wanted and never had and was the one ME turned too - and that she was the daughter of 1st love Digger

Its funny because 20 years ago this forum was Sue Ellen dominated and it was a brave poster who said Pam :)

Ive met a lot of the cast over the years and Im grateful for that but i never met the 2 i really wanted to; BBG and VP! There is still a chance but very slight but it would be a dream come true to finally meet the girl whose hair I copied including poodle perm through my schooldays and youth!! She was the Golden Girl and the most talked about cast member by the mid 80s surpassing Larry Hagman, She really did have it all.
 
LMLDallas78

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
Barbara Fan said:
First and foremost there were 3 reasons I watched Dallas in the early days

1st for BBG and then for Bobby and Pamela - who were my favourite couple and they had it all.
Young, sexy, newly married and looked as if they couldnt keep their hands off one another and I will always say they were the Romeo and Juliet of Dallas

I also think that Victoria Principla was the sexiest and most stunning looking woman on the planet - she topped just about every poll out in the 80s and she was the Dallas Golden Girl,

But above all that she was the most important FEMALE character on the show, after JR as the most important male actor on Dallas

Pamela was the link, the one who joined it all up.

The link - Bobby and Pam V their family at SF, Barnes V Ewing, Digger and Cliff V Jock and JR - the link between the past, present and the future

Thats why when Victoria Left - it was the biggest single loss of any character on the show - the link had gone and it was never the same again and it went downhill from there.

I loved early Pam - and even VP said on Wogan "she had a little more fire" but she had varied storylines and I never had an issue with her acting, but I didnt think she could cry "well"
Some of her storylines and the writing werent great for her and I will never hold it against VP for leaving, she jumped ship at the right time and she went on to even bigger success post Dallas and made megabucks, a very bright and shrewd cookie with a very level headed sense of business. I do get the feeling her costars may have been a little jealous of her success.

I also dont mind that she and PD may not have had the best of relationships off screen but on screen they did and it worked as Pam and Bobby. It was believable and real and i loved them together. I also loved her with Mark Graison too.

In her final season She was over protective of Christopher and was not the Pam of early years who would slap JR, tear off a stip of Jock and JR and more than hold her own in the Ewing household

For me early Sue Ellen was too much of the eyes a rollin' and lips a tremblin' (that we used to imitate at school) but i think her acting improved as time went on

I also loved that Pamela was the daughter Miss Ellie wanted and never had and was the one ME turned too - and that she was the daughter of 1st love Digger

Its funny because 20 years ago this forum was Sue Ellen dominated and it was a brave poster who said Pam :)

Ive met a lot of the cast over the years and Im grateful for that but i never met the 2 i really wanted to; BBG and VP! There is still a chance but very slight but it would be a dream come true to finally meet the girl whose hair I copied including poodle perm through my schooldays and youth!!
Click to expand...
I'd forgotten what a style icon she was back then and known for her beauty, but even she tired of that by demanding only so many swimsuit and teddy scenes per season. She herself referred to it as a "3 teddy season". I agree Pam was very much a central character at the beginning.
I don't know why her co stars would be jealous of her, they've been successful too even if it has been by holding on to their Dallas roots. I always imagined she was jealous when the main story lines were no longer centred around her, I guess that's the joy of our different opinions.
I still enjoyed Dallas after VP left and stayed loyal to Sue Ellen, but found it difficult to watch after LG left.
You're so lucky to have met some of the cast, such a shame you never got to meet BBG. Here's to hopes and dreams of you meeting Victoria.
 
Victoriafan3

Victoriafan3

Telly Talk Addict
I second @BarbaraFan sentiments. I’m a huge Pam/Victoria fan (as my name suggests!). And I put my hand up and completely agree with you. Even my finger loiters near the fast forward button around those nervous breakdown and roof top scenes over not being able to have a baby. They didn’t work and it it wasn’t our strong, positive Pam. And I really can’t watch the Alex Ward scenes either. I defy anyone to make that look convincing. He looked old enough to be her dad for a starter. That whole thing was weird. And the last season, it was the writing again. She was on point in her scenes with Cliff but there’s only so much you can do with a script that firmly placed you backwards as a character once Bobby returned. So to all that I agree. I also agree with @Chris2 It was strangely when she separated with Bobby for those years she was top of her game. I liked her with Bobby and Mark, but when she was away from Bobby her acting level rose to new heights. She had vulnerability and the fire was back. She was mesmerising and utterly the most beautiful woman on television. I also really liked her performance on the first part of the dream season. Up until the herbal tea moment, where again it was the producers and writers giving that cope out, not her. They could’ve had her full on conflict with JR and that would’ve been brilliant. I did like Susan Howard and Linda Gray a lot, but to me VP was Dallas and the ratings speak volumes the moment she left.
 
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Telly Talk Champion
Victoria Principal was the central character of Dallas.

To many that think Larry Hagman's JR was central, well I'm sorry he wasn't, Pam was more the central character than JR ever was!

To many Pam embodied the moral compass of being between the Ewing family and the Barnes family.

She was the outsider trying to survive within a family who found it hard to get along with her.

Eventually she won the trust of both Miss Ellie and Jock Ewing, and there's some lovely performances between Barbara Bel Geddes and Jim Davis as they both realise that Pam isn't a Barnes any longer but a Ewing.

Pam was integral to the success of Dallas, when Victoria Principal left the show a crucial part of the series which kept the show grounded in the relationship between the Barnes and Ewing families was gone.

Dallas then had to be taken in another direction and with hindsight, I don't think it took the right one. However, that's not what we're talking about here. Pam's contribution was to see the Ewing's from the perspective of an outsider trying to fit in with them which is what the character finally managed to achieve before Bobby's Mercedes SL carrying her crashed into that fateful Tanker.

Victoria left at the right time and although I love the show very much, it was never as good after she left. :)

Victoria.jpg
 
Laurie!

Laurie!

Telly Talk Fan
LMLDallas78 said:
It's no secret I'm a massive Sue Ellen fan which started at a very young age and grew. I also adore Linda Gray which came a little later. As a newish arrival to this forum I'm fascinated by the love for Pamela/ Victoria Principal. I also loved her at the very beginning, but something happened to her character that just wasn't exciting anymore. I never found her portrayal of suffering a breakdown at all convincing and I felt her acting at times was rather limited. I know I'll be in the minority here and would've loved to have been part of previous threads about Sue Ellen. I would be so interested to know your reasons for loving Pam, is it Pam and Victoria? I think I need to be reminded why she was/is so loved.
Click to expand...
Anybody who grew up in the 80's knows that Victoria was the "it girl". She was to the 80's what Jennifer Aniston was to the 90's...except I'd argue Victoria was more famous worldwide than Jennifer.

Linda Gray didn't have anywhere near the celebrity status Victoria had (talk show requests, magazine covers, etc).

Like others have said, I hated the attempted suicide, no baby woes, herbal tea....but ironically all of those different storylines kept her way more interesting and relatable to me than Sue Ellen...who I found to be frustratingly boring and never, ever changed. People pretend Sue Ellen got strong but they're kidding themselves. She merely seemed to exist to be obsessed with JR and vengeance against JR.
Pam was the vital link between the Barnes' and Ewings. She was the conscience and the heart of the show.
 
J

Jimmy Todd

Telly Talk Mega Star
The season Bobby was "dead" and gone, Dallas still felt like Dallas. After Pam left, it didn't feel like the same show anymore.
Pam and JR were Yin and Yang, even more than Bobby and JR, imho, because she wasn't a Ewing and was a woman.. I think that could have been explored more in the Dream season if they put more emphasis on Pam struggling to survive working alongside JR. One of the biggest missed opportunities in television.
 
Last edited:
LMLDallas78

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
Jimmy Todd said:
The season Bobby was "dead" and gone, Dallas still felt like Dallas. After Pam left, it didn't feel like the same show anymore.
Pam and JR were Yin and Yang, even more than Bobby and JR, imho, because she wasn't a Ewing and was a woman.. I think that could have been explored more in the Dream season if they put more emphasis on Pam struggling to survive working alongside JR. One of the biggest missed opportunities in television.
Click to expand...
Yes! When Pam stood up to JR with a look, an outburst, comment or slap it was enthralling. Such a shame it didn't happen often enough.
 
WarriorsFan

WarriorsFan

Telly Talk Active Member
Laurie! said:
Anybody who grew up in the 80's knows that Victoria was the "it girl". She was to the 80's what Jennifer Aniston was to the 90's...except I'd argue Victoria was more famous worldwide than Jennifer.
Click to expand...
Victoria Principal more famous than Joan Collins in the 1980s? Joan made Dynasty the global pop culture phenomenon that it was and she had a place in pop culture on the level of Princess Diana and Madonna. Somehow I doubt Victoria was on that same level.

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing said:
Yeah Larry Hagman as JR was the star of the show
Click to expand...
In terms of US television stars, Larry Hagman was to the first half of the 1980s what George Clooney was to the second half of the 1990s. I'd say Larry at the height of Dallas was more popular globally than George was at the height of ER. Larry had a place in pop culture on the level of Michael Jackson.
 
Yesterday from the Beatles

Yesterday from the Beatles

Telly Talk Active Member
For me, Sue Ellen does more with her eyes than Pamela with her entire body.

Also, what's the thing with Pamela being independent and strong ? Independent because she worked in a boutique, or because, later on, Bobby gave her that fitness center ? Strong? She had more problems with sanity than alcholic Sue Ellen. And Bobby was never JR. Honestly, for me, Sue Ellen was far more strong. Ok, she repeated her failings (which is actually a pretty realistic thing) BUT BUT, let's look at Pam and let's look at Sue Ellen. Was it easier to be independent and strong with Bobby or with JR, with Pam's mother and brother, or Sue Ellen's mother and sister? Also, wasn't Bobby the conscience and the heart of the show, how come Pamela? He was mostly calming her down and giving her whatever she wants. But for Pam, nothing was enough. She had Bobby, not enough I need a mother. She had a mother, not enough I need babies etc... Sue Ellen for those little crumps from JR or Dusty was far more grateful than Pam for all the love she got. We are all different I know, and, for me, there's only 1 MISS TEXAS 1967!
 
Last edited:
LMLDallas78

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
Yesterday from the Beatles said:
For me, Sue Ellen does more with her eyes than Pamela with her entire body.

Also, what's the thing with Pamela being independent and strong ? Because she worked in a boutique, or because, later on, Bobby gave her that fitness center ? Honestly, for me, Sue Ellen was far more strong. Ok, she repeated her failings (which is actually a pretty realistic thing) BUT BUT, let's look at Pam and let's look at Sue Ellen. Was it easier to be independent and strong with Bobby or with JR, with Pam's mother and brother, or Sue Ellen's mother and sister? Also, wasn't Bobby the conscience and the heart of the show, how come Pamela? He was mostly calming her down and giving her whatever she wants. But for Pam, nothing was enough. She had Bobby, not enough I need a mother. She had a mother, not enough I need babies etc... Sue Ellen for those little crumps from JR or Dusty was far more grateful than Pam for all the love she got. We are all different I know, and, for me, there's only 1 MISS TEXAS 1967!
Click to expand...
Oh I do love you!!! If I knew how to add emojis I would add loads of red hearts, so kisses will have to do xx
 
Laurie!

Laurie!

Telly Talk Fan
WarriorsFan said:
Victoria Principal more famous than Joan Collins in the 1980s? Joan made Dynasty the global pop culture phenomenon that it was and she had a place in pop culture on the level of Princess Diana and Madonna. Somehow I doubt Victoria was on that same level.


In terms of US television stars, Larry Hagman was to the first half of the 1980s what George Clooney was to the second half of the 1990s. I'd say Larry at the height of Dallas was more popular globally than George was at the height of ER. Larry had a place in pop culture on the level of Michael Jackson.
Click to expand...
Joan Collins has an estimated net worth of $20 million and Victoria Principal anywhere from $200-350 million. Also, as a child, I was eye level with the magazine racks at supermarket checkouts. Victoria was seldom not on at least one. Heck, even on Dynasty I'm not sure Joan was more famous than Linda Evans.....so yes, I stand by Victoria being the 80's it girl.

Sue Ellen was the definition of insanity....doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting different results. Drinking, having an affair, drinking, having an affair....so let's not even compare sanity levels. I don't recall Pam shooting her husband prior to her psychiatrist visit.

JR was presumably exactly the same man when Sue Ellen married him as he was when she shot him and couldn't cope with his cheating. So why did she expect him to change?

Bobby on the other hand was supposed to be a man with morals when Pam married him. When he changed into the power obsessed jerk who planted cocaine on a man, a gun in another man's brief case at the airport, bought a baby, lied about it, had no time for helping her find her long lost mother, was having romantic picnics with his former fiancé and lying about it, etc....of course Pam was upset. Pam however, didn't shoot him or drink herself into a stupor expecting him to change. Instead, she voiced her displeasure and let it be known she wouldn't just sit home and accept it. So yes, she was strong, fiery and independent.
 
Top