Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
When she thought she could just BUY Jenna's baby. That was right out of the Ewing textbook.
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The Pammy Principle.
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When she thought she could just BUY Jenna's baby. That was right out of the Ewing textbook.
The challenge with post-Pam Dallas is that the show wasn’t just about the Ewings. It was a “what if Romeo and Juliet had lived” story that focused on both the Ewings and the Barnes. Juliet had to go live with Romeo’s family. Once Pam was gone, the show’s central conceit was gone. It just wasn’t the same without that character around. We saw the Ewing family through her eyes.
It’s the same way that Dark Shadows wasn’t just about the Collins family; it was about this young woman coming to live with the Collins family to be the nanny. And Peyton Place wasn’t just about a small town in New England; it was about a girl coming of age in a small town in New England. And like Dallas, both of these shows faltered with the young woman at the center of the show was written out when the actress departed.
It’s the same way that Dark Shadows wasn’t just about the Collins family; it was about this young woman coming to live with the Collins family to be the nanny. And Peyton Place wasn’t just about a small town in New England; it was about a girl coming of age in a small town in New England. And like Dallas, both of these shows faltered with the young woman at the center of the show was written out when the actress departed.
Yesterday from the Beatles
Telly Talk Active Member
but at the same time, we had Knots Landing from the same team, with weak Garry and strong Abby. Falcon Crest with strong Angela. Dynasty with strong Alexis, and Fallon who played with Jeff any way she wanted etc...
I mean I see your point, but, I can't understand why they want to do that to Victoria, if the public wanted her so badly (as many of you claim), and all the other shows had women being in charge, so it wasn't something unthinkable at the time. Or maybe Dallas wanted to stay boys club just to be different from the other 3 soaps? So it wasn't nothing personal against Victoria but purely mathematics. Or they just didn't see her fit to be the strong lead. I don't know.
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Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
One reason might be because Dallas is set in Texas. As Sue Ellen's divorcé lawyer once told her, "Texas is one of the last strongholds of male chauvinism" there is. This is probably for another thread, but they treated women like second class citizens on Dallas.
LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
Leonard Katzman.
ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Same with Dynasty, Dynasty wasn’t about the Carrington’s as a whole to begin with, it was mainly about three outsiders; Steven Carrington - the gay leaning bisexual, born into that dynasty but isn’t “man enough” (in Blake’s eyes) to take it on, Claudia - a middle class housewife whose husband is having an affair and works for Blake, she also suffers from mental illness, she’s a metaphor for the 70s America as a whole, a woman who started out with hope in the 60s, came crashing down in the 70s only to be a shattered shell of herself by 1981 and last but certainly not least, Krystle, being the lower middle class secretary marrying into the super rich Carrington dynasty through Blake, once Steven gets recast into a heterosexual whose simply bi curious, Claudia marrying into the dynasty twice over and Krystle getting put into the corner steadily in favour of the Blake/Alexis whereby she has no real storyline of her own from mid season 6 to early season 9 (the last third of the series I might add) other than to react to Blake’s storylines we the audience are left blind.
BH 90210 was the same, the show started out with the Walsh family playing a central role, again a normal Midwestern family thrown into the chaotic and unconventional world of Beverley Hills, by the time we get to final two seasons there are no Walsh’s left, Brandon was the last one but he had become a supporting character to Kelly for several seasons, more specifically Brenda Walsh was our eyes into that world, she was arguably the leading character for the first four seasons, a midwesterner who initially craves the rich Californian lifestyle becomes dissatisfied with it by the 4th season when she moved to London, after that was the beginning of losing any insight we had.
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
Yes, but when you live with vipers, you become a viper. I saw that more as a case of Pam going down the Ewing road (perhaps out of desperation) rather than something that was innate to her character.
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
I agree in that I saw it as an act of desperation from a woman in a very difficult situation. Even Pam knew she was being awful to some degree
The way she teary-eyed approaches Jenna and even says, if I recall correctly, she knows this sounds terrible.
I love the Pam character, but I really wanted Jenna to slap her. Pam wouldn't even be upset with Jenna. It would make her do some soul searching and say, "My God! I was becoming everything about the Ewings I detest."
It would also be a deliciously shocking moment in SoapLand discussed on forums for years to come
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
I feel like she gave virtually the same exact line she gave to her mother when she first tracked her down: "I've rehearsed this conversation in my head a thousand times".I agree in that I saw it as an act of desperation from a woman in a very difficult situation. Even Pam knew she was being awful to some degree
The way she teary-eyed approaches Jenna and even says, if I recall correctly, she knows this sounds terrible.
I love the Pam character, but I really wanted Jenna to slap her. Pam wouldn't even be upset with Jenna. It would make her do some soul searching and say, "My God! I was becoming everything about the Ewings I detest."
It would also be a deliciously shocking moment in SoapLand discussed on forums for years to come
I watched the post-dream season fairly recently, and wow, Pam had really regressed in that final year to her weakest, weepiest form. All that buildup to the reunion in Swan Song, all the hype of bringing Bobby back from the dead, and like 90% of their final year together was a dreary "Jenna's having Bobby's baby" wet blanket.
southfork88
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Dallas wanted to stay in the boys club because was born in this way ... and set in Texas, while Knots Landing, Dynasty and Falcon Crest wanted to differentiate themselves because they appeared on television later.
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
To be fair, you don't need an "Abby", "Alexis" or "Angela" to give a bit of a female perspective - early on Dallas did try to have episodes focus a bit more on the female cast, like Winds of Vengeance and Survival.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
I think the writers did that deliberately in preparation for Victoria Principal's departure in Dallas season ten.
They diluted the character of Pam down because they knew the actor was leaving the show.
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Victoria Principal was the first woman that Anthony Perkins had a sexual relationship with, during the making of The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean in 1972. She was also one of the famous female supporters of Bobby Riggs during his Battle of the Sexes tennis matches against Margaret Court and Billie Jean King in 1973. After the latter match, Victoria would have had practice saying "Oh, Bobby" long before she played Pamela Barnes Ewing
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ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
I get the impression that while VP was distant from Hagman, Duffy and Gray, I do get the impression that she was very close to Charlene Tilton and Ken Kerchaval, the former admitted as much, Tilton and Principal formed a mother-daughter/sister bond in the early to middle years of the show and often played pranks on each other.
Kerchaval also spoke fondly about VP and you could tell they liked one another, I think it’s a case of you get on with some colleagues better than others.
Kerchaval also spoke fondly about VP and you could tell they liked one another, I think it’s a case of you get on with some colleagues better than others.
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
But how much of this was method acting on Victoria's part, i.e. wanting to be the outsider coming into the Ewing family?
LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
That's what I've read in the past and just reminded myself of. Apparently Katzman put all the cast up in a motel so they could bond but VP distanced herself from them to work on her role as Pam the outsider.
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
Victoria wins again by having Anthony in his primeVictoria Principal was the first woman that Anthony Perkins had a sexual relationship with, during the making of The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean in 1972. She was also one of the famous female supporters of Bobby Riggs during his Battle of the Sexes tennis matches against Margaret Court and Billie Jean King in 1973. After the latter match, Victoria would have had practice saying "Oh, Bobby" long before she played Pamela Barnes Ewing
Victoria wins, as always. Poor Swellin' fans!!!
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
there’s conversion therapy, and then there’s conversion therapy with a willing circa-1971 Victoria Principal in close proximity!Victoria wins again by having Anthony in his prime
Victoria wins, as always. Poor Swellin' fans!!!
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LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
VP could've been with the worlds top 100 sexiest or richest men (not jealous) Sue Ellen/Linda Gray will always be my winner!Victoria wins again by having Anthony in his prime
Victoria wins, as always. Poor Swellin' fans!!!
Jock Ewing Fan
Telly Talk Star
I always thought that was indicative of how arrogant, self-centered and hypocritical Pam had become.
Of course, remember how Lucy told Pam how the Ewings use people, and how Pam fit right in with that (Season 2?)
Putting aside which actress played Jenna, I always thought Bobby would have been better off with Jenna