Should Jock have been re-cast immediately after Jim Davis passed away?

[darkshadows38]

sometimes and i'm not talking about anyone on Dallas just in General you have an actor or actress who is doing a role only for the money they don't really care about the finale product they did the film to pay the bills and so if they don't care about the role the script they can give a performance painfully bad one wonders and i'm not talking about in Particular on Dallas i do wonder if at some point there were cast members that love the people they work with and so forth but hate the storylines and they need the money or they signed on for this or that, where they just don't care about their Performance i wonder if there were any who were on Dallas and were part of the main cast that did end up feeling that way? so if they have a bad Performance they just didn't care that's what i mean as i said i don't have anyone in mind.

has any of the cast ever said something like that? anyone know?

 

[LMLDallas78]

We are going rather off topic, but I must quickly say Linda Gray was brilliant in that scene you are talking about.
In Winds of vengeance the family is held hostage and Sue Ellen had to don her swimsuit and sash and sing with a gun to her head in front of the family.
This was to humiliate her and it did.

The scene was embarrassing and hard to watch. Indeed Linda says it was hard but is down to earth enough to be able to laugh at herself. BBG ended up in hospital that night after filming and it's joked if it was because of Linda's singing.
Who else could've pulled that off like she did? It was meant to be cringingly awkward and it was.

During the whole episode you can see it slowly and painfully dawning on Sue Ellen that this is all because of JR's behaviour (and Ray).
At the end when she gives them both THAT look, no one else could've done that like she did.

Linda knew then if she could act that scene she could do anything and she absolutely did!
I would love to answer more of your questions, but that's for another time and thread.

 

[darkshadows38]

i'm sorry that's just how it came across to me i would not be surprised if today she wished she could redo that scene again i have no problem if you disagree with me that's just how i feel when i watch that episode which isn't a bad episode at all. though Kidnapped i had to think about the episode title for awhile without looking it up that one is a really painful sit and it's not very well written either or acted but that's mainly do to the Charlene Tilton and i forget the name of the actor who kidnapped her in it and i do like him as an actor. i do think Linda Grey has gotten even better as an actress, as she's gotten older too, but if i recall Charlene Tilton said once and prolly more than once she doesn't think she's that great of an actress it's been a long time since i heard that so my memory may be wrong if my memory is right it's nice that if she thinks of that of herself she's self aware and that makes me think of an actor on Passions i do not know the name of the actor but he was one of the leads and

i read this a few years ago where he admitted while being interviewed that he doesn't think he's a very good actor and he's not wrong. that's a show that i had to quit watching cause the acting was just so bad. Dallas i think had a better cast than that one to be fair, sorry for going off topic stuff like this just stuff i love to talk about i'm a film geek lol and i know it's tv but it's the same thing pretty much where you can be a big fan of someone and be aware that at times they aren't gonna be on their game that's all. anyways when they want to recast a certain role in a tv series or a film and they aren't the same cast as you want them to i have always said that i'll give him or her a chance and it all depends as i said how it's written and played and at times it has worked and at times it doesn't.

if they had Replaced Jock they really would have had to be really careful on who they would pick and did a lot of auditions just to see what it would look like or they did do that and they what the band Genesis ended up doing they actually had over a thousand different singers try out for the band they had the written the music but not the lyrics yet i don't think to see who would fit and than they said screw it Phil's doing it when they couldn't find anyone else i wonder if that is what did happen?

 

[southfork88]

We are going rather off topic, but I must quickly say Linda Gray was brilliant in that scene you are talking about.
In Winds of vengeance the family is held hostage and Sue Ellen had to don her swimsuit and sash and sing with a gun to her head in front of the family.
This was to humiliate her and it did.

The scene was embarrassing and hard to watch. Indeed Linda says it was hard but is down to earth enough to be able to laugh at herself. BBG ended up in hospital that night after filming and it's joked if it was because of Linda's singing.
Who else could've pulled that off like she did? It was meant to be cringingly awkward and it was.

During the whole episode you can see it slowly and painfully dawning on Sue Ellen that this is all because of JR's behaviour (and Ray).
At the end when she gives them both THAT look, no one else could've done that like she did.

Linda knew then if she could act that scene she could do anything and she absolutely did!
I would love to answer more of your questions, but that's for another time and thread.

I am amazed that since about two years on Linda Gray's bad acting is 'sometimes' talked about. This had never happened !

I have always read positive and enthusiastic reviews both in magazines, newspapers since the early eighties as well as in the various incarnations of this Forum. And my personal judgment leaves no room for criticism of Linda Gray's acting.

The scene of Sue Ellen's humiliated and offended look at JR and Ray ... alone would be enough to define her as a genuinely talented actress.

Sometimes her eyes are enough to tell her feelings. And this talent she has brilliantly expressed up to the new series of Dallas.

The fight scene with his son (Josh Henderson) is one of the most intense and moving ever. Thanks also to Josh, but Linda has shown that even at the age of 80 you can be credible in a character like Sue Ellen.

A multifaceted character because fragile and victim, but also tough, snobbish or totally asshole.

 

[Barbara Fan]

Im afraid to say I think that Winds of Vengeance and singing "People" is toe cringingly bad acting - even Larry teased her about it ?? on a Joan Rivers show and Linda in the mini series wasnt great - the eyes a rollin, lips a tremblin, and put on southern state voice that Terry Wogan would take the mick out off made me LOL

But towards the end of 1st season started to improve and i think it was during dream season and s8 En Passant - where she has the convesation with JR at SF about letting John Ross stay there that i thought You have improved- a lot

In early Dallas I always thought Linda, Jim and Charlene were the weakest links acting wise

With Charlene, BBG and LH brought out the best in her

I thought TNT Dallas was very bad and hammy acting with only Larry Hagman coming out with credibility and I jumped ship from Duffy to Hagman
I thought once love of my life Duffy was awful in several scenes (when Bobby was ill) and he more than cheesed me off with his crawling up Crap Cidres backside off camera

 

[Billy Wall]

No mention of early Pam? Look at her scene when she's telling off Jock and JR after they destroyed Cliff's senate run. And in the very same episode, watch Cliff tell off Pam. Ken Kercheval might have been the best actor on Dallas.

 

[Billy Wall]

And since we're on the subject of bad acting. Check out the scene when this guy made a pass at Sue Ellen.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

We are going rather off topic, but I must quickly say Linda Gray was brilliant in that scene you are talking about.
In Winds of vengeance the family is held hostage and Sue Ellen had to don her swimsuit and sash and sing with a gun to her head in front of the family.
This was to humiliate her and it did.

The scene was embarrassing and hard to watch. Indeed Linda says it was hard but is down to earth enough to be able to laugh at herself. BBG ended up in hospital that night after filming and it's joked if it was because of Linda's singing.
Who else could've pulled that off like she did? It was meant to be cringingly awkward and it was.

During the whole episode you can see it slowly and painfully dawning on Sue Ellen that this is all because of JR's behaviour (and Ray).
At the end when she gives them both THAT look, no one else could've done that like she did.

Linda knew then if she could act that scene she could do anything and she absolutely did!
I would love to answer more of your questions, but that's for another time and thread.

that’s I feel about that scene as well.. it’s often singled out for criticism but I’m not sure what people would expect out of a worthy performance in the scene.. something less uncomfortable? differently uncomfortable? Is her performance too hammy or awkward? Her “singing voice” or crying too forced or grating to the ear? I find it effectively disturbing.

Now the dumb little staccato-ish piano chords with rhythm section during the hostage situation that’s otherwise sheer drama/horror in tone - that’s bad! Are we at a lounge?

 

[DarkVader]

No mention of early Pam? Look at her scene when she's telling off Jock and JR after they destroyed Cliff's senate run. And in the very same episode, watch Cliff tell off Pam. Ken Kercheval might have been the best actor on Dallas.

I will mention early Pam or specifically, Miss Victoria Principal. Victoria was very hit-and-miss early in the series' run. For every bad scene, there was also a good one. The scene you cited is definitely the former, but then there is the scene where she confronts Lucy about ditching school which was extremely well played.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

if they had Replaced Jock they really would have had to be really careful on who they would pick and did a lot of auditions just to see what it would look like or they did do that and they what the band Genesis ended up doing they actually had over a thousand different singers try out for the band they had the written the music but not the lyrics yet i don't think to see who would fit and than they said screw it Phil's doing it when they couldn't find anyone else i wonder if that is what did happen?

they should have done exactly that, but instead of Phil (Capice) they should have gone with good ol’ Uncle Lenny

(seen above: 'NuJock Katzman' pals around with daughter-in-law Pamela, unmistakably channeling the spirit of the late, great Jim Davis)

 

[darkshadows38]

Thank you Barbra Fan i am so glad i'm not alone in this and the other as well and i agree Victoria Principal did a lot of bad acting the show was full of it but having said
i still love the show. i think i said it here more than once where i forget which actors said this about soaps and it was really about daytime soaps but Dallas is a Soap so it fits too i think where Soaps are where actors learn to act and they need to be around because it's a starting ground for them. i know there's a lot of the cast of Dallas that had been acting a long time Larry is a good example Jim Davis another the list goes on

but i can see a soap like Dallas having cast new actors/actresses well Dark Shadows sure did it Lara Parker's 1st Professional Job and sadly her most Successful was Dark Shadows and the list goes on they took people from The Theater kinda how like SNL took people from the theater in the 70's and 80's to the point that they told the producers Stop taking our cast go somewhere else anywhere else well maybe not that way but i wouldn't be surprised if they had. anyways, yes i do think Linda Grey's acting did slowly start to get better it also helped with the writing as they slowly gave her more to do. i may crack on the acting but that does not mean i don't love the show even Beverly Hills 90210 had cringe worthy acting and i also love that show as well. that also doesn't mean there wasn't plenty of cast members who did join the show who could act as said Howard Keel for one. John Beck wasn't bad either even if his face in the show anyways was vastly Punchable you just wanted to punch his face everytime he was on screen but not because the actor did a bad job but because his character was a slime

 

[Billy Wall]

Speaking of Jock, why did they get rid of this more fitting frame?

 

[southfork88]

Perhaps those who don't appreciate Linda Gray's acting would have given an Emmy award to Priscilla Presley and Dack Rambo.

 

[DarkVader]

This thread has gone off the rails...

 

[LMLDallas78]

This thread has gone off the rails...

Great though isn't it?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

After Spring of 1982, Victoria's acting became flawless; before that, it was hit or miss.

What ever "bad" acting Linda did, I just chalked it up to Sue Ellen's neurosis. Same with Charlene.

Priscilla's work was okay in her first year.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Speaking of Jock, why did they get rid of this more fitting frame? View attachment 46666

There was actually two paintings of Jim Davis. The first painting was eventually given to Jim's widow Blanche.

The second painting is just very slightly different with checking on part of the shirt. This one remained on the show until the end of the series. Larry Hagman took it after the series ended and sold it at auction years later.

 

[darkshadows38]

good writing can help you express how you want to put things to screen better and so can a good director i do think that Charlene did get a bit better at acting the more she did it as time went on. plus you also have to give a damn as well about the material if your character is getting good material i do think that you will try harder at how your performance is than if you have crap acting. one thing that's always amazed me is how you have an actress Priscilla Presley who is great in the Naked Gun movies

but i dunno maybe on Dallas was out of her acting Range? much like people Crack on Sasha Mitchell and i admit i haven't seen his time on the show but he was great doing Comedy on Step By Step Playing Cody i don't think i've seen him try to do drama. and as for the painting honestly i didn't realize there were 2 different paintings

 

[Seaviewer]

What ever "bad" acting Linda did, I just chalked it up to Sue Ellen's neurosis. Same with Charlene.

That's what I've always thought, too. Particularly with Charlene. People are always giving her a bad rap but to me it's always perfectly in tune with the character.

 

[DarkVader]

Linda Gray played Sue Ellen's instability to perfection. It's really something to see her growth from the mini-series through to the first official broadcast season. She really stepped up to the plate and delivered.
Lucy Ewing was not a very in-depth character to begin with so Charlene's acting in the role was serviceable.

The Jenna Wade that was played by Priscilla Presley was so far removed from the Jenna played by Morgan Fairchild that they might as well have been playing two completely different characters. Jenna Wade's main function on DALLAS was to be an obstacle for Katherine and Pamela and once she served that purpose the writers did not know what to do with her. That certainly was not Presley's fault. She played the part nicely for her first two years on the show - but let's face it, Jenna was always going to be second banana to Pam, and even when Victoria left and the opportunity was there for the writers to get Bobby and Jenna back together they didn't. They opted to pass her off to of all people: Ray Krebbs.