Did Ray really need to be Jock's son?

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Oh I love those ideas, could be so juicy.

Don't forget Jordan's wife who was Sarah in the early days and not referred to again? So what happened to pregnant Sarah?

As for that beautiful soul Andy Bradley, you must let us into a secret before your BRADLEY fame
who was his Daddy or suspected Daddy?
And who called HIM Daddy or thought he was their Daddy?

you’ll have to wait for the book and/or show, but needless to say, there are a lot of “daddy” relations in all directions around the dynamic Andy (quite possibly including Ray Krebbs. to keep this thread firmly on topic).

Last I heard, Sarah Lee and Marilee Stone’s absent children were leading an international ring of criminal intrigue (and sugary snack cakes), the one at least partially responsible for the cantankerous Jordan’s inexplicable demise in a Paris phone booth.

(the Jordan Lee Paris Phone Booth Massacre might be the most ridiculous part of these last few posts, and I didn’t even make that part up?!)

 

[Toni]

A nice contrast with Gary there too. Gary might beat himself up occasionally over his faults, but he quickly gets over it with the usual Ewing confidence. Ray often dwells on his faults to the point of it eating him up. On the other hand, Ray does have a strong work ethic.

Just ask Lucy!! :danc: :danc: :danc:

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I think it helped give Ray some sort of identity on the show by making him Jock's son.

It was also tragic the way it worked out for the actors because Jim Davis passed away later that year.

However storyline wise the show did use the passing of Jim and Jock to their advantage.

All the Ewing family had different ways of grieving after the loss of Jock and it's understandable that Miss Ellie, Ray and JR took it the hardest.

Ray especially took it hard because he had only recently found out Jock was his Father before we tragically lost Jim Davis to cancer (multiple myeloma).

As sad as it was that we lost Jim, the characters death opened up so many storylines for the future. Rest In Peace Jim.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Miss Ellie, Ray and JR took it the hardest

But I wanted Ray to step up and be the son Jock would have wanted, I didn't like Ray's downward spiral. I wanted him to be strong and prove he could be like a Ewing and get his half brothers into shape.

It made sense that JR took it badly, always being the one having to prove himself, although not in business, Jock knew and approved of what he was like in business.

Bobby goody took everything too well, I wanted to see him go into a depression. He was the favoured, spoilt one by Jock and Bobby just wanted everyone to move swiftly on. Bobby was strong when handling situations, but unrealistically strong sometimes.

 

[Billy Wall]

Bobby goody took everything too well, I wanted to see him go into a depression. He was the favoured, spoilt one by Jock and Bobby just wanted everyone to move swiftly on. Bobby was strong when handling situations, but unrealistically strong sometimes.

I agreed with everything else you said, but not this. People grieve in different ways. Not everyone goes hysterical or even cry after someone close dies. People died in my life and I never cried.

Bobby going about business was not unrealistic and remember, the episode after "the search" was two weeks later. You're still mourning but life goes on.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I agreed with everything else you said, but not this. People grieve in different ways. Not everyone goes hysterical or even cry after someone close dies. People died in my life and I never cried.

Bobby going about business was not unrealistic and remember, the episode after "the search" was two weeks later. You're still mourning but life goes on.

Yes of course you're right. I didn't expect Bobby to fall apart but I wanted him to.

It was always Bobby who was there for everyone and picking up the pieces, that was his personality.

Even when Baby John was taken he wasn't concerned when everyone else was flapping around, but then I guess he thought Cliff had taken him.

Just once I wanted Bobby to have some kind of reaction.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Yes of course you're right. I didn't expect Bobby to fall apart but I wanted him to.

It was always Bobby who was there for everyone and picking up the pieces, that was his personality.

Even when Baby John was taken he wasn't concerned when everyone else was flapping around, but then I guess he thought Cliff had taken him.

Just once I wanted Bobby to have some kind of reaction.

People grieve in different ways. Some can be very openly depressed and sad and others like Bobby can control their depression and sadness by throwing themselves into their work .

He did break down on occasions like when April died. When Pam disappears from the hospital he at first believes that she's dead and you can see him welling up before the Doctor corrects him.

He breaks down on his death bed in Swan Song but since that's classed as part of the dream it didn't really happen.

Duffy was a good actor when it came to showing emotion.

 

[LMLDallas78]

People grieve in different ways. Some can be very openly depressed and sad and others like Bobby can control their depression and sadness by throwing themselves into their work .

He did break down on occasions like when April died. When Pam disappears from the hospital he at first believes that she's dead and you can see him welling up before the Doctor corrects him.

He breaks down on his death bed in Swan Song but since that's classed as part of the dream it didn't really happen.

Duffy was a good actor when it came to showing emotion.

Absolutely he was very good at showing emotion as well as showing anger and frustration being a hothead.
But Bobby was always the one "saving" people and sorting out JR's mess.
As he was Jock's favoured son (which was never hidden) I just would have liked his death to have more of an emotional impact on him. He always had to be the strong one.
I'm not knocking Patrick's acting in any way, just pointing out I wanted Bobby's reaction to be different at that time.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I think Bobby was trying to be the strong one specifically when Jock died because of the fact that J.R. and Ray were going to pieces. Perhaps he was just as depressed but felt that at least one brother had to be strong and hold everything together. Miss Ellie certainly needed his help in that department considering how despondent his brothers were and I’m sure he felt obligated to help her.

Ironically Jock’s death would end up having a negative impact on Bobby but that would come later. It wasn’t until after the reading of Jock’s will that Bobby began changing and sounding and acting more like J.R. The contest changed Bobby, and the contest was a direct result of his daddy’s death so in effect Jock’s death did have a serious negative impact on Bobby, but it was more delayed. He was forced to be strong at first, but his struggles came later.

 

[LMLDallas78]

at least one brother had to be strong and hold everything together

But Bobby was the baby of the brothers and he had every right to be affected more by his Daddy's death.

Ray went to pieces after only recently finding out he was Jock's son. They were close before, but how could he miss what he didn't have? I guess he would be yearning for all that lost time.

JR went to pieces because he spent every day trying to prove himself to his Daddy, but still did some bad stuff while Jock was around considering that.

Bobby became unbearable during the fight for Ewing Oil and as you point out that was a direct result of Jock's will and maybe that's how his grief showed itself.

 

[DallasFanForever]

But Bobby was the baby of the brothers and he had every right to be affected more by his Daddy's death.

Yes, that is definitely true. You would think the youngest would be affected the most, or at least harder than he seemed to be, but perhaps he felt with his brothers a mess and a mother in denial he had to put up a front and be strong. This wasn’t the average family to begin with so maybe logic doesn’t apply, I don’t know.

Ray went to pieces after only recently finding out he was Jock's son. They were close before, but how could he miss what he didn't have? I guess he would be yearning for all that lost time.

Excellent point! With Ray it was probably more of the lost time factor. He obviously didn’t get the time the other brothers had with Jock so maybe there was even resentment and jealousy.

JR went to pieces because he spent every day trying to prove himself to his Daddy, but still did some bad stuff while Jock was around considering that.

I think with him it was a case of knowing he was never the favorite but in his mind sure felt like he should be. Whatever he did to please Jock it was never quite enough to make him #1.

 

[DarkVader]

We all know Steve Kanaly was threatening to leave, should he have?

He was a good actor and a great asset to the show but if he wasn't happy he should have left.

What did it really change? Ray didn't even change his name.

It changed the fact that Kanaly didn't leave the show...LOL

Apart from a bit of friction with JR and voting shares, how did it affect the other members of the family?

Well, it made Ray Lucy's step-uncle which made it awkward because he was sleeping with her on and off the first 2 years of the series.

Should Miss Ellie have been more resentful towards Ray?

No. Why would she resent Ray? It was Jock she should have had the issue with, not Ray.

Would you rather someone else had been Jock's other son? Someone who was more of a threat to JR and Bobby for Ewing assets?

No, not really.

View attachment 49424

 

[LMLDallas78]

He was a good actor and a great asset to the show

Yes he was, but could he easily be replaced unlike others who were and it failed miserably?

It changed the fact that Kanaly didn't leave the show...

Yes obviously, but as far as the family dynamics, nothing really changed and things just carried on as normal.

Well, it made Ray Lucy's step-uncle

Which meant we all had to forget about their earlier affair and for it to never be mentioned again.

Why would she resent Ray?

Well Jock wasn't around much longer after this so one might have understood Miss Ellie feeling a little resentful.

She was cross that Jock never shared his intentions of adding Ray to the family trust fund. Resentment could have been seen as a normal reaction with grief.

No, not really

Why don't you say how you really feel!(LOL)

 

[Seaviewer]

Well, it made Ray Lucy's step-uncle which made it awkward because he was sleeping with her on and off the first 2 years of the series.

Half-uncle. Step-uncle wouldn't be a blood relation.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Half-uncle. Step-uncle wouldn't be a blood relation.

But half Uncle still means blood related surely? Gary and Ray had the same blood Father.

Step Uncle is Uncle only by marriage or relationship and not in any way blood related.

They obviously thought it was bad enough not to refer to it again and hope the audience would forget.

 

[WeldonBallou]

I didn't particularly care for the "Fourth Son" storyline. I didn't like the "now that I'm a Ewing, I must prove myself" mindset they gave Ray.

I think by 1980 the goal for the rest of the series was to somehow make every character that enters their universe become a Ewing.

 

[DallasFanForever]

They obviously thought it was bad enough not to refer to it again and hope the audience would forget.

In my mind I like to think Ray and Lucy never slept together and were just up there in that hayloft laughing and joking around and it never went any further than that. Maybe one of the few times I’m actually okay with something being swept under the rug.

Having said that, it’s still a missed opportunity to have not addressed it later at some point, or at the very least having someone stumble upon this revelation and using it to blackmail both Lucy and Ray.

 

[Seaviewer]

But half Uncle still means blood related surely? Gary and Ray had the same blood Father.

Step Uncle is Uncle only by marriage or relationship and not in any way blood related.

Yes, that's what I meant. The revelation made Ray Lucy's half uncle, not step uncle.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Yes, that's what I meant. The revelation made Ray Lucy's half uncle, not step uncle.

I see that now, I had misunderstood your original post.

I often wonder what punishment Ray would have received if his carrying on with Lucy had ever been found out.
Didn't Pam and Bobby know and nothing came of it?

And his one nighter with Sue Ellen although I think she would have been blamed there.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I often wonder what punishment Ray would have received if his carrying on with Lucy had ever been found out.
Didn't Pam and Bobby know and nothing came of it?

Yes, Pam knew first and then Bobby discovered it for himself. They never told anyone else. Safe to say Southfork would’ve had an opening for a new foreman if Jock or Miss Ellie ever found out.

Perhaps Ray ends up buried next to Hutch McKinney.................................................................

“Wait, that girl Pam is your daughter? Oh, I dated her for awhile before that Bobby came along. Hmmm, small world.”