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Should Miss Ellie have stepped in to Ewing Oil in 1987 ?

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
After the censure and fining of Ewing Oil by the feds? Over the B D Calhoun scandal?

I don't think it should have been permanent, of course. But Miss Ellie placing herself as the head of Jock's surviving company for a few months might have been interesting -- and given Ellie more to do that season than just fretting over Laurel Ellis.

 

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
Yes she really should have. Miss Ellie back being her best. She should have made it that all future decisions go through her.

Anything other than the Laurel story.

She had every right and was still capable to oversee more of the business at that time.
Did she really mean Ewing Oil should have died with their Daddy? I'm sure she did at that moment.
Would Jock have been as ashamed as she said she felt?

Momma could still put her sons in their place. How she strides into the office telling JR to sit down where she can see him and oddering him to get Bobby to join them.

That scene is one of the best Miss Ellie scenes up there with her "that's what makes us unbeatable" years before.

When she says, "Don't you ever.....ever speak his name infront of me again".
Wow!
 

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme

Jock Ewing Fan

Telly Talk Star
After the censure and fining of Ewing Oil by the feds? Over the B D Calhoun scandal?

I don't think it should have been permanent, of course. But Miss Ellie placing herself as the head of Jock's surviving company for a few months might have been interesting -- and given Ellie more to do that season than just fretting over Laurel Ellis.

No. Misss Ellie did not have the votes to override JR and Bobby, nor the expertise to run a business.

BBG is a fine actress and it was a good example of her acting, but it showed Miss Ellie to be hypocritical.

She only cared about Ewing Oil when it benefitted her life of wealth and statue.

When Jock was gone, she tried to sell Ewing Oil twice, during the JR-Bobby battle and during the dream season.

She knew that Jock was quite capable of being ruthless, so where did Jock as Mr integrity develop in her mind?
She had issues with Jock about Takapa, and she hastily had hid picture removed from Southfork, a property that he saved.

Not to mention that Bobby had nothing to do with the planning with Calhoun.
What was he supposed to do when he learned of it?
 

the-lost-son

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Yes, Miss Ellie should have been involed in business. Either at Southfork or in that situation at Ewing Oil. She could have taken that spot herself or chosen a proxy in ger place, like Donna, Clayton or Gary (if available).
I'm probably not in the majority, but I found this storyline and the scene above quite contrieved. Both the series and the character of Miss Ellie have become rather stale at this point.
Losing the Original Ewing Oil (with its ionic structure and its living room votings) together with Pam and Donna was sth. the show never recovered.

Bobby was the most interesting when he had to get his hands dirty from time to time. (Why the hack was she mad at him for?)
I wish the writers would have taken MissEllie down from her high horse and show the audience that the family matriarch knows how to win a fight. They should have pulled out all the stops for her - calling in favours, getting down in the mud, even with Clayton.
I wouldn't have mind if she personally sent some boys diwn to Miss Scotfield to close that subject.

No more nagging, let's get real. Give us another "We're Ewing and we stick together" scene, another MissEllie saves the day moment.
 

Billy Wall

Telly Talk Dream Maker
For the people that are giving Bobby a pass, Bobby might not have directly have anything to do with the BD Calhoun situation, but he sat right there and allowed it to happen. I'm paraphrasing, but Bobby pretty much admitted said the exact same thing.

Bobby had every responsibility to report JR to the authorities. People got killed over JR's BS and Bobby did nothing to stop it.
 

Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Ellie was the Queen of Looking the Other Way when it came to JR’s misdeeds. She had no moral authority to lecture Bobby. If I had been Bobby, I would have said just that. “I seem to recall your being perfectly OK with JR abusing Sue Ellen all those years. Or kidnapping Lucy and denying Valene the chance to raise her. So you will keep your big, hypocritical trap shut. Or else I’ll move off Southfork and you’ll never see your grandson again.”
 

Jock Ewing Fan

Telly Talk Star
Ellie was the Queen of Looking the Other Way when it came to JR’s misdeeds. She had no moral authority to lecture Bobby. If I had been Bobby, I would have said just that. “I seem to recall your being perfectly OK with JR abusing Sue Ellen all those years. Or kidnapping Lucy and denying Valene the chance to raise her. So you will keep your big, hypocritical trap shut. Or else I’ll move off Southfork and you’ll never see your grandson again.”
Thank You for some clarity!

Ellie was content to look the other way at Jock and JR's business activities as long as it preserved her life of wealth and privilege.

She took no responsibility for her part in how her parenting helped create the man that JR became.

She disrespected Jock by trying to sell Ewing Oil twice (OK, once in the dream season), tarnishing his memory by trying to
declare him mentally incompetent, wanting to give away SF to her long-lost brother after Jock saved the ranch,
removing his portrait from SF, marrying a Ewing adversary and giving him half of SF.

Why blame Bobby? He had nothing to do with planning with Calhoun. Did Bobby somehow develop ESP?
What was he supposed to do?

Miss Ellie was self-righteous hypocrite, and a fair weather opportunist who disrespected Jock's memory, unless of course
it was otherwise convenient
 

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
She took no responsibility for her part in how her parenting helped create the man that JR became
I agree with what you say apart from this though. You can have the upmost best loving wholesome family and still create a monster in a child. Not every bad child is the product of bad parenting.

I did disapprove of how she accepted his behaviour as an adult though and always turned that blind eye.

Ellie was content to look the other way at Jock and JR's business activities
But was she always aware of their behaviour? Or was she naive?
 

Billy Wall

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Ellie was the Queen of Looking the Other Way when it came to JR’s misdeeds. She had no moral authority to lecture Bobby. If I had been Bobby, I would have said just that. “I seem to recall your being perfectly OK with JR abusing Sue Ellen all those years. Or kidnapping Lucy and denying Valene the chance to raise her. So you will keep your big, hypocritical trap shut. Or else I’ll move off Southfork and you’ll never see your grandson again.”

Miss Ellie: "Don't you threaten me Bobby James Ewing with the grandson you BOUGHT!!!" Lol
 
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Laurie Marr

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Ellie could also have very traditional even reactionary anttitudes about a woman’s place despite her tough talk and shotgun in the closet. In ‘Return to Camelot’ she lectured Sue Ellen, Donna, and Jenna with the penetrating insight that it was their fault that their men were not by their side. Even at the time I gasped at Ellie’s belligerence and selective memory.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

Telly Talk Star
I agree with what you say apart from this though. You can have the upmost best loving wholesome family and still create a monster in a child. Not every bad child is the product of bad parenting.

I did disapprove of how she accepted his behaviour as an adult though and always turned that blind eye.


But was she always aware of their behaviour? Or was she naive?
You make good points.

To provide some context,

When the Father is an alpha male in an extremely competitive industry and he favors the youngest son while questioning the paternity of his oldest son (possibly), and the Mother favors the middle son and is warmer to the youngest son, the result is that the oldest son might not be
as ethical as Jimmy Stewart's character in "It's a Wonderful Life"

Ellie probably did not know all of Ewing Oil's business, but she had to know at least some things.
She certainly knew that Jock and JR defeated Cliff's election hopes with some damaging info, and how angry Pam was.
She knew Cliff was investigating Ewing Oil, and there had to be other times when Ewing Oil 's
business practices were being examined

She knew Jock's interactions with Digger Barnes, even though Digger didn't exactly help himself.
She knew how JR treated Sue Ellen.

A powerful man's wife ma not know everything, but she would not be totally in the dark either

She overlooked that Cliff put himself at risk to save Bobby. She could have at least expressed some Thanks, and
she had to know that JR tried to use the situation against Cliff
 

Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
As the series went on, the writers made both Ellie and Jock out to be nicer people than what we saw at the beginning of the series. Ellie lecturing JR and Bobby on how they didn’t live up to Jock’s moral standards was silly. This is the Jock who was complicit in having Jonas Culver institutionalized so he and Sam Culver could take control of his land. Jonas committed suicide while he was locked up. Not very nice. This is also the Jock who said that women belonged in the bedroom not the boardroom and that Ewing Oil’s head of marketing was “uppity.” And the same Jock who drove the farmer from “The Dove Hunt” into bankruptcy by leaning on the farmer’s customers not to buy his crops, again so that Jock could snatch the land. And of course, we had the original premise of Jock taking full financial control of the oil claim he discovered with Digger, before that was retconned to make Jock look like a saint.

Ellie wasn’t always wonderful early on either. We’ve already discussed her part in keeping Lucy from Valene. Sue Ellen told a friend once that when Ellie Ewing called, you didn’t keep her waiting. That leads me to believe that Sue Ellen did keep her waiting once and dealt with Ellie’s not-so-pleasant side. We also saw this side of her when she froze out Ray after it was revealed he was a Ewing, and when she was nasty to Donna after Donna found out about the Jonas Culver situation.
 
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Jimmy Todd

Telly Talk Mega Star
I think it's a brilliant suggestion @Snarky Oracle! and what @Jock Ewing Fan said it part of what makes it brilliant. It would open up so many layers of all three characters. Miss Ellie being hypocritical, having a dark side and not having the votes or know how of the oil business could be part of the story. JR would be scheming and Bobby would be caught in the middle. It wouldn't havr to be permanent, which would be beneficial to the story. It would also draw in Clayton and Sue.Ellen. if Donna was still she could be a good part as Miss Ellie's best friend, and a very savvy one at that.
Also, anything to give Miss Ellie something substantial to do.
 
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Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
As the series went on, the writers made both Ellie and Jock out to be nicer people than what we saw at the beginning of the series. Ellie lecturing JR and Bobby on how they didn’t live up to Jock’s moral standards was silly. This is the Jock who was complicit in having Jonas Culver institutionalized so he and Sam Culver could take control of his land. Jonas committed suicide while he was locked up. Not very nice. This is also the Jock who said that women belonged in the bedroom not the boardroom and that Ewing Oil’s head of marketing was “uppity.” And the same Jock who drove the farmer from “The Dove Hunt” into bankruptcy by leaning on the farmer’s customers not to buy his crops, again so that Jock could snatch the land. And of course, we had the original premise of Jock taking full financial control of the oil claim he discovered with Digger, before that was retconned to make Jock look like a saint.

Ellie wasn’t always wonderful early on either. We’ve already discussed her part in keeping Lucy from Valene. Sue Ellen told a friend once that when Ellie Ewing called, you didn’t keep her waiting. That leads me to believe that Sue Ellen did keep her waiting once and dealt with Ellie’s not-so-pleasant side. We also saw this side of her when she froze out Ray after it was revealed he was a Ewing, and when she was nasty to Donna after Donna found out about the Jonas Culver situation.

Even the CBS promos advertised the mini-series as being about, among other things, "the gracious but ruthless parents."

I didn't mind so much Ellie and the family whitewashing Jock post-mortem (or Ellie herself) because that's what families often do. But when the show itself began to do it (young Jock Ewing was anti-KKK?? I don't think so!) it became a little bit of a problem -- but I think the writers were concerned about besmirching Jim Davis after his death, since the dumber sector of the audience tends to confuse the character with the actor.

I think it's a brilliant suggestion @Snarky Oracle! and what @Jock Ewing Fan said it part of what makes it brilliant. It would open up so many layers of all three characters. Miss Ellie being hypocritical, having a dark side and not having the votes or know how of the oil business could be part of the story. JR would be scheming and Bobby would be caught in the middle. It wouldn't havr to be permanent, which would be beneficial to the story. It would also draw in Clayton and Sue.Ellen. if Donna was still she could be a good part as Miss Ellie's best friend, and a very savvy one at that.
Also, anything to give Miss Ellie something substantial to do.

All of the female characters on DALLAS eventually came into their own -- except Miss Ellie. And I always, always thought that was a mistake. Especially in the later seasons, when they actually began writing less for her instead of better.

Not that Ellie needed to turn into a boss bitch exactly, but ... maybe. For a spell. Having her controlling Ewing Oil at some point, eliciting the aid of Bobby in the details here-and-there, would have been something I'd like to see, at least temporarily.

That's why David Jacobs' idea for the prospective DALLAS movie twenty years ago of Miss Ellie having a TV talk show seems to me a good idea for the series at some point (smells like Season 13). After the Ewing-Valdez tanker disaster and the resulting oil spill, JR goes on The Roy Ralston Show for PR purposes, but it doesn't work all that well. But once Ralston then meets Ellie at, say, The Oil Barons Ball and he's utterly charmed by her, JR brings his mama onto the Ralston talk show a couple of times, she's a hit, and, shortly thereafter, when Ralston's show finally goes national, the local station, wowed by the audience's affection for her, offers Miss Ellie Ralston's time slot... Ellie frets about whether or not she should do it, Clayton is wary of the whole thing, Bobby smirks patronizingly as he always does whenever any woman wants to do anything, but JR wholeheartedly encourages the venture (which makes Clayton even more wary) because JR sees the show as an opportunity to influence public opinion in a way he'd like.

Ellie takes the job, and delights east Texas with her chatter, recipes, celebrity interviews and homespun wisdom -- until she begins revealing her own liberal political leanings and environmental concerns, horrifying JR along with the Dallas oil cartel. So, Mama being unassailable to his criticisms, JR begins scheming to pull the plug on SOMEONE'S IN THE KITCHEN WITH ELLIE as fast as possible -- Miss Ellie almost dying as a result of her eldest son's manipulations.

She survives, but leaves her TV talk show before the end of the season.

But then, I always saw Miss Ellie as the secret star of DALLAS.

ellieshow.jpg
 
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DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
I like the idea of Miss Ellie stepping in for awhile at Ewing Oil. Personally I always wanted to see the women of the show get more involved in business. We got a glimpse of it when Donna substituted for Bobby after the shooting and with Pam in the dream season but neither situation really delivered what they should’ve.

Miss Ellie felt J.R. and Bobby had failed the company and their daddy. She knew Jock was no angel all those years and did what he had to to make Ewing Oil succeed but Jock had never done anything to bring on the wrath of the federal government. J.R. had and in Miss Ellie’s opinion Bobby was just as guilty for standing by. We know Bobby was in the dark for quite awhile when it came to B.D. but Miss Ellie didn’t care at this point.

Jock knew what he could get away with and he knew when to stop, and admitted himself that he had never taught that last part to J.R. Why? I’m not sure really. If Jock was so successful and also knew when to stop then why wouldn’t he pass that on? It might’ve been his biggest mistake as a father.
 
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