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Cliff and Sue Ellen's affairs

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
It's often speculated that these two used each other during their two affairs. Did they?

Cliff admitted that's how it was at the beginning then he fell in love with her.

Sue Ellen was hurt when Cliff dumped her as she was willing to leave JR for him, believing Cliff really loved her.

Whenever their paths crossed afterwards they would exchange that look between each other, as though something was always there.

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They once accused each other of being users and incapable of loving. Sue Ellen even slapped Cliff.

What about their second affair when Sue Ellen was living on her own,
Did they love each other then?

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LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
They never truly loved each other. It was all just to get back at JR.
I don't think all of it was. I think they both fell for each other at different times.

The reasons they got together were wrong, but when Sue Ellen got divorced Cliff told Rebecca about them and later told Afton he'd heard news about a friend when she asked why he was preoccupied and later couldn't perform in bed.

At that time JR was no threat and Sue Ellen was free from him (we thought) I think Cliff's love was genuine here, well as genuine as Cliff was capable of loving.
 

CeeCee72

Telly Talk Star
I think Cliff was using SE the first time to get back at JR and SE was lonely and bitter enough to let him.

I think SE was using Cliff to get back at JR the second time.

Did they develop feelings for one another? Yes,I think they had some soft emotions between them. Having said that, JR was always the most important person in the relationship between SE and Cliff.
 

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
It's strange but I always felt Cliff was such a threat to JR in that way. Not in business obviously, but at times JR would mention the affair to Sue Ellen and it wasn't always during a fight.

Maybe that was his abusive, put down side coming out, but a few times he questioned Sue Ellen on her feelings towards the affair, her feelings towards Cliff. Was he really that worried how she felt or was he terrified she would leave him for Cliff of all people?

Cliff could never love anyone as much as he loved himself and Sue Ellen never could get J.R. completely out of her system.
I agree about Cliff, but then when I rewatch those episodes, I can see a side to him that is loving and sincere.

I wish we saw more of this Cliff.

He's got an almost sweet nature under all that hateful exterior, you need to look for it closely, but it's definitely there.

Sue Ellen never could get J.R. completely out of her system.
Yes and there's the problem. However badly he treated her, JR was more of an addiction to Sue Ellen than alcohol was.

Sue Ellen also told JR what a wonderful lover Cliff was.
Maybe that's what JR feared the most!
 

DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
Maybe that was his abusive, put down side coming out, but a few times he questioned Sue Ellen on her feelings towards the affair, her feelings towards Cliff. Was he really that worried how she felt or was he terrified she would leave him for Cliff of all people?
I don’t think J.R. ever fully got over the embarrassment of the paternity suit and Cliff dragging the Ewing name through the mud. J.R. resented John Ross until he found out he was his and just maybe he felt guilty about that once he realized how badly he had treated his own son, yet another reason to resent Cliff.

Sue Ellen knew the mere mention of Cliff’s name had the ability to drive J.R. mad, and I think she really enjoyed twisting that knife at times.


I agree about Cliff, but then when I rewatch those episodes, I can see a side to him that is loving and sincere.

I wish we saw more of this Cliff.

He's got an almost sweet nature under all that hateful exterior, you need to look for it closely, but it's definitely there.
I totally agree with this. Cliff could be highly likable at times and deep down I think he did have the capacity to love others. Unfortunately his obsession with beating the Ewings took precedence over everything else in his life most of the time. Sue Ellen, Pam, Afton, Rebecca, Donna, they all knew and saw his compassion and ability to love others but he’d always end up doing something to ruin those relationships at some point.
 

Toni

Maximum Member
I think that the rehash of the Sue-Cliff affair was almost daytime-worthy. They could have done better things. Dusty was axed too soon, and Sue right away was falling under JR´s spell (she was feeling pity of him when Jock died already!). The most interesting thing of all this was how the other characters interacted with them in those episodes. Rebecca, Ellie, Afton, Clayton, even Katherine. Funny how Rebecca never saw Sue until Cliff was in the hospital.

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Rebecca (Off): "Take that awful woman out of here!
She´s a tramp, a drunk and an unfit mother...
just what I used to be..."​


Afton evolved by then when she seemed to realized that she didn´t only "want his money" but also the rest of him. By the writers´ choice or not, that was a pivotal moment for her, when she started to be more warm and loving towards Cliff and also Pam and Mark. And, of course, she stood up to Katherine in defense of her "sister-in-law" Pam. Can you imagine the little b**** who slept with JR at Lucy´s wedding doing that? Too bad Audrey Landers didn´t like that change and that, obviously, they didn´t want to get deeper into Afton´s change and just turned her into Cliff´s doormat.

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Rebecca was always an underwritten character, at least between her debut and Cliff´s suicide. Then she went all extreme and wide-opened. Almost like Angela Channing on acid. I can´t remember one scene when she and Cliff talked about Sue (aside from that one from "Missing Heir"). Of course she seemed to live in oblivion and follow the "look away" style of her "friend" Miss Ellie. In real life, Rebecca would have liked to meet Sue and check out if she was being "good" to her son or just "gallivant around town again".

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"Hmmm. Hairdo, butch. Clothes, The Store.
Needs a teeth fixing".​

I don´t think that Katherine met Sue by then or that she gave a damn about Cliff´s personal life. But it was then when the seed of "wickedness" was planted and gave us a couple of great years with her. About Clayton, I honestly think that he never had serious feelings toward her, he just got influenced by that mean-spirited girl from Biloxi. That twist made Clayton look a little dumb, I´d say.

About the affair in future seasons, actually Sue did try to resume it in Season 12. First she told that awful April about it and then she met Cliff and hinted they could make JR suffer again. Luck Cliffie had learned something and become a bit smarter.

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"Sure you don´t want some good rimming?"​
 
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Taylor Bennett Jr.

Telly Talk Winner
Now that really was an odd coupling, they just didn't look right together. Both great characters, but seemed to lack believable chemistry together unless that's how they were written?

Maybe that's why it didn't last very long.

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Donna deserves a spot in the Polka Dot Hall of Fame for that outfit
 
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LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
she didn´t only "want his money" but also the rest of him
And yet only a little earlier Afton met with JR (JR!!?) to ask him to leave Cliff alone with all his finances intact because she wanted him along with his credentials.

Afton told JR Cliff would be out of Sue Ellen's life soon as she had a new pursuer (this is where JR learns that's Clayton according to Afton)

Funny how Rebecca never saw Sue until Cliff was in the hospital
Yes that was strange. Apart from a few restaurants Cliff and Sue Ellen still saw each other in "secret" even though she was divorced.

Rebecca chose to visit Ellie (why??) to discuss Cliff and Sue Ellen's romance then Ellie visited Sue Ellen to discuss the affects on the family.

Rebecca spoke to Cliff in his office about the relationship and warned him about JR. Cliff response was "I'm meant to stop seeing Sue Ellen because I'm afraid of a fight with JR?"

About Clayton, I honestly think that he never had serious feelings toward her,
Oohh I think he did, yes Afton was influential in his feelings (a man like Clayton mind?) He pretended to be a Father figure friend, but as JR told him (they also met to discuss Sue Ellen's love life.....odd) Clayton wanted her not for his son's sake, but for himself.

actually Sue did try to resume it in Season 12.
I so wanted them to resume it again here, I was so disappointed Cliff declined, but then he was right to this time as it really was for revenge.

and I think she really enjoyed twisting that knife at times.
Yes she did, she could be so amusingly cheeky!

JR's whistling away in their bedroom one day and Sue Ellen asks if he's more excited to meet her Mother's new beau or that she's bringing Kristin with her.

He tells her it was better when she drank and what kept her at Southfork and in his bed.
"What keeps me here is the look on your face when your Daddy says how proud he is and how much Baby John looks like you and all the time you're wondering does he look like you or Cliff Barnes?"
Brilliant Sue Ellen!
 

DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
Now that really was an odd coupling, they just didn't look right together. Both great characters, but seemed to lack believable chemistry together unless that's how they were written?

Maybe that's why it didn't last very long.
I can’t remember much about them as a couple to be honest. I know it was very brief but they were too bland together. Political couples never really held my interest long.
 
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