Did Cliff Ultimately Defeat JR?

[Billy Wall]

I'm doing a re-watch of TNT Dallas (underrated) and Cliff is worth $3B while JR has to make a call to come up with $1M for a high stakes poker game. Cliff is seen as extremely powerful while JR is still using the old and tired blackmail tactics he used years ago.

I know it ends with Cliff going to prison, but how do you not see Cliff as the ultimate winner in the Ewing/ Barnes feud. And how did JR become less rich than virtually everybody in the first place?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Well, prison's a big deal.

 

[Michelle Stevens]

At the end of the original series, basically yes. More for JR just collapsing than anything Cliff did.

 

[Billy Wall]

Well, prison's a big deal.

Death is worse, depend on how you look at it. I haven't got to that part yet, but wasn't Cliff framed for JR's murder?

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Cliff owned Ewing Oil at the end of season 14

Consider his "win"

Afton loved him left him and had a daughter that he didn' t see for years
He lost Mandy during the season 8 battle for Ewing Oil, because Ewing Oil was more important
He used Jamie, and could have had her love, but again, Ewing Oil was more important to him
Rebecca passed when she intervened in the Season 6 battle for Ewing Oil
Pam married and divorced Bobby, then season 10 happened, all the while the Barnes-Ewing feud escalated
Katherine..OK, it was not going to work, but he lost a sister during the Battle for Ewing Oil
In the early seasons, he could have had a positive relationship with Bobby,
and the Bobby/Pam marriage but he eventually chose not to

"Conundrum" did make a point about Cliff's better path if he didn't choose to battle the Ewings

Some win

 

[lbf522]

In the beginning, Cliff vs. The Ewings was like David vs. Goliath but it was OK until the writers made him a loser and an idiot. He feel into obvious traps like the so called groundswell for him to run for Congress which would mean he would have to resign as head of the OLM (which was stupid). Cliff should have seen right through that.

Yes Cliff was obsessed with Ewing Oil and the Ewings partly because he grew up hearing from his father how Jock Ewing cheated him out of his share of the oil strike and Cliff saw Ewing Oil as an evil that needed to be defeated. I don't care much for how he was written on Dallas TNT. That was awful.

 

[Michelle Stevens]

Cliff owned Ewing Oil at the end of season 14

Consider his "win"

Afton loved him left him and had a daughter that he didn' t see for years
He lost Mandy during the season 8 battle for Ewing Oil, because Ewing Oil was more important
He used Jamie, and could have had her love, but again, Ewing Oil was more important to him
Rebecca passed when she intervened in the Season 6 battle for Ewing Oil
Pam married and divorced Bobby, then season 10 happened, all the while the Barnes-Ewing feud escalated
Katherine..OK, it was not going to work, but he lost a sister during the Battle for Ewing Oil
In the early seasons, he could have had a positive relationship with Bobby,
and the Bobby/Pam marriage but he eventually chose not to

"Conundrum" did make a point about Cliff's better path if he didn't choose to battle the Ewings

Some win

Cliff was married (by trickery) to Michelle Stevens at the end of Season 14 so that is a big win.

 

[Mustard]

At the end of the original series, basically yes. More for JR just collapsing than anything Cliff did.

J.R. Returns put J.R. back on top.

Cliff's best chance against J.R. was during Season 5 DVD, but then it boomeranged on him in the same season.

 

[xab]

Just a thing I've always wondered : a weak JR being in a home and having lost his power, Bobby being at peace with the Barnes, why did Cliff have to go on with the old feud in Dallas TNT ? What was supposed to be his point ?

 

[GillesDenver]

Cliff was married (by trickery) to Michelle Stevens at the end of Season 14 so that is a big win.

According to my memory, he did not seem pleased by that.

 

[Seaviewer]

Just a thing I've always wondered : a weak JR being in a home and having lost his power, Bobby being at peace with the Barnes, why did Cliff have to go on with the old feud in Dallas TNT ? What was supposed to be his point ?

I suspect that the writers just picked up on the feud from the old show and either didn't know or didn't care that it had been resolved. There was the opportunity to write a dramatic story filling in the gap but they didn't take it.

 

[Chase Gioberti]

At the end of the original series, basically yes. More for JR just collapsing than anything Cliff did.

Nah, they are both in tatters. Cliff lost his fiancé, almost got shot by Michelle, his fiancé sold her company to McKay. They both were down and out at the end of the original.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

In the beginning, Cliff vs. The Ewings was like David vs. Goliath but it was OK until the writers made him a loser and an idiot. He feel into obvious traps like the so called groundswell for him to run for Congress which would mean he would have to resign as head of the OLM (which was stupid). Cliff should have seen right through that.

Yes Cliff was obsessed with Ewing Oil and the Ewings partly because he grew up hearing from his father how Jock Ewing cheated him out of his share of the oil strike and Cliff saw Ewing Oil as an evil that needed to be defeated. I don't care much for how he was written on Dallas TNT. That was awful.

As Cliff became more buffoonish, the series lost more of its quality.