What's You Opinion On Early Season JR And Sue Ellen?

[Billy Wall]

The main reason I'm asking this question is because of the two part episode "Whatever happened to baby John?" JR and Sue Ellen got on my nerves in this episode. It really bugged me that Bobby, Pam and even Cliff took more of a hands on approach to finding out what happened.

Meanwhile, Sue Ellen looks totally out of it and JR even went to the office. Jock and everybody else was quick to call Gary weak, but did they ever pay attention to JR when things got bad domestically? Or maybe they looked the other way because JR was essentially the bread winner of the family?

 

[Mustard]

J.R. treated Sue Ellen terribly at the time, even from a "business" perspective, i.e. it's not a good look for the Ewing family's image. I think it's clear that J.R. and Sue Ellen became self-conscious that they couldn't really compete with Bobby and Pam on a love level, with J.R. driving himself even more into work, and Sue Ellen being more annoyed, jealous, fed up, sometimes checking out by going to the bottle.

They call Gary "weak" because he doesn't play their power games, and doesn't want the responsibility of it.

 

[lbf522]

I had not thought of it at the time but you are correct that it should have been JR and Sue Ellen who should have been at the forefront getting their son back. But the writers were heavy handed in making Bobby and Pamela the main focus.

 

[CeeCee72]

Actually, the behavior of both JR and Sue Ellen seem exactly right to me in that episode, given the circumstances.

Sue Ellen had a horrific case of postpartum depression and was completely unable to bond with her baby. In cases that severe, it's not unusual for mothers to be completely emotionally detached unfortunately.

JR didn't think the baby was his, so it makes some sense he wouldn't go out of his way to find it. If the John Ross had been a Barnes, the disappearance would be a pretty convenient solution for JR.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

when I was first on the forum here, other than some bits here and there from the original broadcast as a kid, I’d really only seen the “Jock seasons”. I thought the “JR and Sue Ellen, hottest couple ever!” people were absolutely Fletcher Sanitarium level bats..

It wasn’t until I saw the latter half of the dream season years later that I had some idea of where that might have come from.

At this point (early “Season 3”), though, there had been just about precisely *zero* warmth, and very little sign of attraction between the two. JR seemed like he’d rather have a root canal than go to bed with Sue Ellen, and she wasn’t exactly exploding with lust for him either. Other than the occasional “marital rape” scenario, that is..

The bar had been set so low that when JR actually shows some emotion at the bedside of his comatose wife at the end of the previous season, people seem to want to declare it (something approaching actual humanity, that is) to be a transcendent act of love for the ages.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

There are a lot of people who get mad at you from the moment they're attracted or interested in you due to their control issues, so they're mean towards you almost before the relationship even starts because of their own feelings of vulnerability. (If they really loved you -- or were even capable of love, they would care about your feelings as well).

They feel want, not love. So they're unconcerned about your feelings at all, and any 'niceness' is sporadic, manipulative and disingenuous.

I'm not sure all of that describes J.R., as the chase -- the conquering -- of the other person seemed to be his main goal. So he was only interested in Sue Ellen whenever she showed signs of leaving, tiring of his neglect and abuse. Once he had her back, his disinterest re-occurred. Repeatedly.

Sue Ellen, on the other hand, was raised to catch A Rich Man, status & money being her agenda. So it's hard to feel much sympathy for her.

J.R. & Sue Ellen were a rather Old Testament biblical couple: the unloving Everyman and the unloving Everywoman. (Only, she could use her gender role to play "the good one," which is why a lot of narcissistic, non-introspective women adored the character, just as Princess Diana fans adored and idolized her, excusing all of her own behavior).

Their bond, as it were, was by definition sick and mutually exploitative. But Sue Ellen had her own problems with her own "the chase" patterns: whenever she was with a nice man -- even a rich one -- she'd get bored; returning to the rush she felt within the cat-and-mouse dynamic she had with her husband.

She preferred The Bad Boy and the frustrations that went with it.

So they really were deceptively alike. Larry once pointed out that "JR had a need to abuse; Sue Ellen had the need to be abused." And once Sue Ellen finally tired of it all, she just flipped the sadomasochistic nature of the relationship back on JR, and then he seemed to succumb. So the game went on.

The healthier thing Sue Ellen could have done was simply leave. But she wasn't willing to do that until Lorimar-Telepictures no longer wanted to pay her.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Sue Ellen, on the other hand, was raised to catch A Rich Man, status & money being her agenda. So it's hard to feel much sympathy for her.

I do feel sympathy for her for that reason, though - absent father, awful mother, thrown into the beauty contest world as a girl, married her rich man who turned out to be the dastardly JR… of course she was messed up!

 

[Toni]

As happens with other storylines, we never got to see the "real" early marriage of SR and Swellin. Those 7 years (I think) prior to the pregnancy with John Ross, all we know is that she knew about Julie Grey. I mean, she had never had a lover before Cliff (well, actually Ray!!)? Really? What if she was like Laura Avery in early "Knots"?

"I´d rather sleep with the fox who gave me his
skin than you rascal!!"

​

She was a "nympho" (or at least that´s the way JR defined her once) and Dallas was full of bachelors and unsatisfied husbands...I´m sure not all of them were old farts like the Cartel guys. It also was told to us that she got first drunk at the Prom Ball, as if she were the only girl who did that there...

At least she didn´t have to go through this...​

If she had known that JR (allegedly) had been dating that Beaumont woman (who looked like HER!) in Europe prior to their wedding, her descent to the Dallas Rock Bottom hells would have been a lot faster! I think that she really enjoyed playing the lady of the manor (as is shown to us), and hearing Jock that she and JR will be the heirs to the Ewing empire, or something.

"...And everybody will call me "Your Southforkness"
"Shut up, you drunk b**** and go to clean the toilet now!!​

 

[Billy Wall]

As happens with other storylines, we never got to see the "real" early marriage of SR and Swellin.

​

Miss Ellie pretty much told us. "From the moment you brought that girl into this house you've neglected her. First with the business, then with other women. You wasn't even discreet half of the time."

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Sue Ellen, on the other hand, was raised to catch A Rich Man, status & money being her agenda. So it's hard to feel much sympathy for her.

But Sue Ellenn likely would have turned out this way anyway. Patricia probably just help guide it.

I do feel sympathy for her for that reason, though - absent father, awful mother, thrown into the beauty contest world as a girl, married her rich man who turned out to be the dastardly JR

Bur that narrative always makes Sue Ellen out to be everybody's victim. She was an adult who made her own choices and pursued her own often-dirty compulsions.

At least when JR and Sue Ellen were projecting their own behavior onto each other (which tends to happen), they were both basically right. So it was at least cozy, in a way.

 

[Toni]

Miss Ellie pretty much told us. "From the moment you brought that girl into this house you've neglected her. First with the business, then with other women. You wasn't even discreet half of the time."

I don´t think that Miss Ellie knew about Julie, Serena, Kristin, Louella, Abby Ewing (!), etc. I´m sure she lived perfectly in her own bubble, playing the Southfork matriarch her own way (though she was willing to give it back to Garrison!) and ignoring how much Ray looked like Jock. By the way, did you notice that none of the legit sons had any resemblance with Jock? I wonder if she also had a "past", so to say... She always seemed so full of love to give...

If those porcelain dogs could talk... They look as if they are picking on Miss Ellie´s
hair like the birds picked on Snow White´s... A goody-goody is a goody-goody.​

 

[Billy Wall]

I don´t think that Miss Ellie knew about Julie, Serena, Kristin, Louella, Abby Ewing (!), etc. I´m sure she lived perfectly in her own bubble, playing the Southfork matriarch her own way (though she was willing to give it back to Garrison!) and ignoring how much Ray looked like Jock. By the way, did you notice that none of the legit sons had any resemblance with Jock? I wonder if she also had a "past", so to say... She always seemed so full of love to give...

View attachment 59157

If those porcelain dogs could talk... They look as if they are picking on Miss Ellie´s
hair like the birds picked on Snow White´s... A goody-goody is a goody-goody.​

We're talking about the first 7 years of their marriage, and yes, I'm pretty sure Miss Ellie knew about JR and Julie. Sue Ellen knew, Bobby knew, and even Jock once said to JR "it seemed that you spent a lot of time with her/Julie."

As for the others, you're probably right.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I don´t think that Miss Ellie knew about Julie, Serena, Kristin, Louella, Abby Ewing (!), etc. I´m sure she lived perfectly in her own bubble, playing the Southfork matriarch her own way (though she was willing to give it back to Garrison!) and ignoring how much Ray looked like Jock. By the way, did you notice that none of the legit sons had any resemblance with Jock? I wonder if she also had a "past", so to say... She always seemed so full of love to give...

​

And there's that Season 15 plotline where JR thinks he's Digger's son. So important.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

We're talking about the first 7 years of their marriage, and yes, I'm pretty sure Miss Ellie knew about JR and Julie. Sue Ellen knew, Bobby knew, and even Jock once said to JR "it seemed that you spent a lot of time with her/Julie."

As for the others, you're probably right.

I imagine Ellie knew a lot, but who knows the degree to which she managed to repress it - perhaps even to the point where she didn’t “consciously” know.. I suppose Dr. Ellby probably could have hypnotized it out of her.

I always found the most interesting part of that speech to JR to be the vitriol behind the word “discreet”.. It was pretty clear that that was what Ellie found most objectionable about JR’s treatment of Sue Ellen. Charitably, it was like “boys will be boys, but the worst thing you could to Sue Ellen is flaunt it all over town”.

Really though, it came across a lot like “proper classy people like the Southworths/Ewings keep their extramarital affairs hidden from the public. You’re embarrassing *me* with your behavior.”

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I just want to hear JR call his mama "a whore," sympathetically, in the living room -- and, ultimately, announces, "I guess my Mama's turned out to be a lyin' little skank" at the Oil Baron's Ball -- because she isn't quite sure who his daddy is.

 

[Billy Wall]

I imagine Ellie knew a lot, but who knows the degree to which she managed to repress it - perhaps even to the point where she didn’t “consciously” know.. I suppose Dr. Ellby probably could have hypnotized it out of her.

I always found the most interesting part of that speech to JR to be the vitriol behind the word “discreet”.. It was pretty clear that that was what Ellie found most objectionable about JR’s treatment of Sue Ellen. Charitably, it was like “boys will be boys, but the worst thing you could to Sue Ellen is flaunt it all over town”.

Really though, it came across a lot like “proper classy people like the Southworths/Ewings keep their extramarital affairs hidden from the public. You’re embarrassing *me* with your behavior.”

Miss Ellie also said "I don't know why she hasn't left you."