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In a Thatcherian way, yes.
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I haven't seen the show in so long so I had forgotten all about that. I was responding to what @Willie Oleson had said about "likable" villains. Main characterswho are the villian of the show have to have some traits that make them, if "admirable" is not the right word given their evil actions, maybe "palatable" is more apt.
Angela, Abby and JR did horrible things, but they all had qualities that prevented fans from turning the channel in absolute disgust. JR raped two women and stole another woman's baby. Nobody is approving of that, but he remained immensely popular. .
Shakespeare's Macbeth was truly reprehensible by the end of the play, but in the final scene between him and Macduff he realizes all the odds are against him and he will be defeated and killed, he still hangs on to a shred of honor and refuses to go down without a fight. This is.right after he had the opportunity to kill Macduff, yet.spares him saying, "My soul is too much charged with blood of thine already." His acknowledgement of his evil deeds and tenacity in the face of certain defeat are important because they show an evil man still having a glimpse of the humanity he seemed to have lost as the play progressed and that
by standing up to Macduff.and the army formed against him, the lost greatness he could have had is evident as well.
How does relate to prime time soap villains? Because they resonated with the audience on a certain level and these characters endured as they are still being discussed today. Obviously, they are not.studied and reenacted at the same level of Shakespeare's creations, but it's the same.concept. It is similar to how musicians , directors, actors, etc can still have their fan base and their art respected even after they themselves have fallen from grace. There is something in these characters to which we are drawn. Maybe it's that they represent humanity as a whole in that we see shimmers of what could be if they used their skills and strength for good in the way we may imagine what our world could be if people and countries worked together more often than not.
I may receive some sarcastic replies to my post, and I'm not.saying Falcon Crest is the same level as the great Bard. I'm just providing thought about what makes characters who do wicked things likable, and yes we did like Angela, Abby and JR, just not what they did.
Also, I happen to think Billy Shakespeare would have loved FC, KL and Dallas when they were at their best.
Angela, Abby and JR did horrible things, but they all had qualities that prevented fans from turning the channel in absolute disgust. JR raped two women and stole another woman's baby. Nobody is approving of that, but he remained immensely popular. .
Shakespeare's Macbeth was truly reprehensible by the end of the play, but in the final scene between him and Macduff he realizes all the odds are against him and he will be defeated and killed, he still hangs on to a shred of honor and refuses to go down without a fight. This is.right after he had the opportunity to kill Macduff, yet.spares him saying, "My soul is too much charged with blood of thine already." His acknowledgement of his evil deeds and tenacity in the face of certain defeat are important because they show an evil man still having a glimpse of the humanity he seemed to have lost as the play progressed and that
by standing up to Macduff.and the army formed against him, the lost greatness he could have had is evident as well.
How does relate to prime time soap villains? Because they resonated with the audience on a certain level and these characters endured as they are still being discussed today. Obviously, they are not.studied and reenacted at the same level of Shakespeare's creations, but it's the same.concept. It is similar to how musicians , directors, actors, etc can still have their fan base and their art respected even after they themselves have fallen from grace. There is something in these characters to which we are drawn. Maybe it's that they represent humanity as a whole in that we see shimmers of what could be if they used their skills and strength for good in the way we may imagine what our world could be if people and countries worked together more often than not.
I may receive some sarcastic replies to my post, and I'm not.saying Falcon Crest is the same level as the great Bard. I'm just providing thought about what makes characters who do wicked things likable, and yes we did like Angela, Abby and JR, just not what they did.
Also, I happen to think Billy Shakespeare would have loved FC, KL and Dallas when they were at their best.
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Of course. We love our villains because people have always been fascinated by the dark side of humanity. "The things I would never do, but still...."
I think it's the kind of love that doesn't need further justification.
When I read things like: oh, but he really loved his son, or, circumstances forced her to be tough, or, of course she would try to secure the family fortune for her own children - I don't think that's very relevant to the villainy. And it isn't always about what they do, but how far they would go to achieve their goals.
The willingness to cross the boundaries of human empathy and decency.
These soap villains would all be diagnosed as sociopaths, occasionally upstaged by psychopaths (who shot JR).
And yes, they do love their children until those children are old enough to have "opinions". Then they also need to be manipulated and whatnot.
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Good point. Another interesting aspect is the line between when they can justify anything they have done and see themselves as victims(Alexis proclaiming to Krystle as the cabin burn, "?This is all your fault. Every time you come into my life something terrible happens"; Abby justifying stealing Gary from Val after almost two seasons of scheming to do so, "Gary and I fell in love. No one could have predicted that") to kind of acknowledging they are morally dubious people. Abby did this when she said to Greg, "I don't what I can to get what I want, but not this." She means, of course, keeping Valene's babies away from their mother is something even she won't do. Angela, also in her own sardonic manner, admitted she's no barrel of laughs when, after being served a particularly spicy drink sputtered, "If you're trying to turn me into a fire breathing dragon, your years too late." That' doesn't seem as close to the level of self awareness Abby displayed, but Angela saw herself as a "tough old broad," not a corrupt, immoral exploited of honest workers.
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I think this is at the core of the discussion: they don't see themselves as villains, nor should they. Because if they did it would create an unrealistic self-awareness that would undermine the narrative.
I once read - here on this forum? - that these actors cannot hate their characters if they want to play it convincingly. And that's why the charm continues to shine through in those performances.