Why Did Philip Capice Leave Dallas?

[Kenny Coyote]

Note: My computer changed the name "Capice" to Caprice and when I clicked on "edit" to fix the typo, there was no option given for fixing the title of the thread.

Recently I asked how the role and responsibiities of a producer differ from that of a director and if there is any real difference between a producer and an executive producer. As I wait to see if someone or several people can share some knowledge on that topic, a remembered a name I always used to see at the end of Dallas during the best years of the series: Philip Capice.

I went to Wikipedia to get some information and it read: "Dallas grew to be TV's top rated series in the early 1980s, and Capice was nominated for Emmys in 1980 and 1981 (losing to Lou Grant and Hill Street Blues, respectively).[2] Episodes of Dallas would usually end on a freeze-frame, with the executive producer credit superimposed over the final image before the end credits ran. Since some of the season finalés of Dallas were among the most watched, and highly anticipated TV shows in the world, Capice's name became very widely recognized. However, creative conflicts between him and Larry Hagman and Leonard Katzman eventually led to Capice leaving Dallas in 1986.[3][4]"

What I'd like to know is if anyone here knows specifically what those "creative conflicts" were about specifically and what Leonard Katzman's job title was during the years when Philip Capice was the executive producer of Dallas.

Why would a man who was doing such a successful job be replaced and why would Larry Hagman, an actor, be in charge of deciding who should be the executive producer? Don't the actors work for the producers and directors and not the other way around?

Finally, when it became clear that Dallas was floundering without Capice, was any attempt made to re-hire him?

 

[Presea]

I don't know exactly what happened, but I am guessing that the "creative conflicts" mentioned referred to Capice not agreeing with Larry and "Uncle" Lenny that making Dallas into a parody was a wonderful idea. I think that most of know that it was NOT a good idea.

 

[JR Ewing Fan]

Larry hated him and wanted him gone. He wanted Lenny back. I think Dallas needed both men. That's when the show was great. And as for actors working for producers that's usually the case but sometimes the star is bigger than the show and that's how big Larry was in the 1980's. He had the power.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Larry Hagman as much as I do like and respect, was given way too much power on Dallas, and it eventually ruined the show,

Katzman and Capice were both needed on Dallas, they balanced each other out, yet I do feel Capice had a better understanding of Dallas than Katzman, Capice knew Pam would eventually have to battle JR once Bobby was killed off, though he did mess up.in this area, I'd sooner watch season 9 than season 11 onwards.

 

[tommie]

I think he left because otherwise there'd be a murder-suicide on the Dallas set.

Which would've been a ratings-booster you know!

 

[Rove]

Whatever those "Creative Conflicts" were in those early years it worked for the betterment of all, not just a select few. As others have rightfully pointed out, Larry Hagman became the all powerful Oz in Dallasland. The time he overstayed his welcome in Europe (after JR had been shot) while negotiations were underway to increase his salary was the beginning of the end. Lorimar Productions and CBS blinked, Larry had called their bluff and the beast was off the chain. So cocky was Larry, Lorimar Productions had to use a body double in the return episode, "No More Mr. Nice Guy: Part 1." It's not until the very end of the episode we see Larry (JR) appear, lying comatose as Miss Ellie, Sue Ellen and the detective keep him company.

 

[Barbara Fan]

My computer changed the name "Capice" to Caprice and when I clicked on "edit" to fix the typo, there was no option given for fixing the title of the thread.

Ive changed it. :mall:

 

[Barbara Fan]

Larry Hagman as much as I do like and respect, was given way too much power on Dallas, and it eventually ruined the show,

I agree with you there, Dallas lost its way when Larry had power

I also think Dallas needed the yin and yang that were Katzman and Capice
thats why S1- 6 original were the best

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

David Jacobs mused that as much as the two men disliked each other and struggled for power over DALLAS, "they had the exact same approach to television."

But you can compare the dream season (when Capice was still there, with a team of new writers, and without Katzman) to the closing years (when Katzman was there, without Capice).

That tells it: Capice seemed to like the "legitimate drama" feel, but was weaker on character and plotting which he delegated to others; Katzman was willing to be sillier, but his superior sense of character and plotting eventually gave way to that silliness (especially with Paulsen gone, a man more indispensable to DALLAS than even Katzman although no one would ever say it -- except for me).

The word also seems to be that while Katzman was less aloof and had a better bedside manner with the actors and crew, Capice was often high-handed and bitchy in his demeanor (although he was friendly with the women). But it sounds like in the end, like most bosses, they'd both cut your throat when it suited them -- Capice fired the show's main composer, Jerry Immel, when Immel used spanish guitar in Bobby's funeral episode, and although Katzman rehired him immediately, Katzman later also fired him, possibly twice!

 

[Mustard]

When Leonard Katzman worked alongside Philip Capice, Katzman was obviously a huge part of what was successful on Dallas, as he was the Producer, a writer and a director. It seems obvious that Capice, the Executive Producer, would not agree to all that Katzman wanted to do on Dallas. Personally, I think that Capice made sure that Katzman’s positives got on the screen and that Katzman’s negatives didn’t so much, but that Katzman didn’t see those traits of his as negatives, so was frustrated. By Season 8 DVD, this conflict came to a head. I think it’s obvious that the quality was down compared to previous years, and that this led to an increase in tensions to the extent where Capice and Katzman could no longer work together as Executive Producer and Producer.

Therefore, for Season 9 DVD, Katzman was gone as Producer and Capice carried on as Executive Producer and worked with new Producers in Peter Dunne and James H. Brown, and a brand new writing team involving people like Joel J. Feigenbaum, Stephanie Garman, Hollace White and Peter Dunne, while David Paulsen effectively took Dunne’s old job over on Knots Landing for one season (Season 7 of Knots Landing – 1985-86). Despite all these changes and Katzman’s considerable demotion, Katzman was still involved in Dallas in Season 9 DVD as “Creative Consultant” and occasional writer.

The ratings for all US soaps were down after 1985, as a general trend, yet at the time there wasn’t the benefit of hindsight regarding this, and there was a lot of old wounds and bad blood still there from Katzman’s supporters. I believe targets to get at Capice politically during this time were to blame the fall in ratings on Capice, to claim that women had too prominent and powerful a role in the show, that J.R. had gone soft (very ironic, considering what J.R. became in Seasons 12-14 DVD), and that killing off Bobby Ewing was a big mistake. So the war that Capice had seemingly won after Season 8 DVD was back with a vengeance, with Capice now in the firing line. Eventually, it’s agreed that Capice was to leave Dallas completely at the end of Season 9 DVD, and that Katzman would not only be back in the production team, but promoted to Capice’s old job as Executive Producer with totally authority over Dallas. This saw most of the Season 9 DVD production team leave Dallas, many of whom were only there for Season 9 DVD. Katzman then had Bobby return, and wrote off the whole of the previous season’s storylines (where Katzman’s influence was at its lowest), as a dream of Pam’s.

In Season 10 DVD, we see Katzman running Dallas completely his way, without Capice there to filter out anything. David Paulsen also returned to Dallas for two years. There’s a noticeable increase in sexist comments in Season 10 DVD that was way beyond anything that had been in Dallas before. This seems to be Katzman’s resentments about the Dream Season coming out in the scripts, which shouldn’t happen.

When Pam leaves, and then they decide not to kill her off at the beginning of Season 11 DVD, they went on to make a dog’s breakfast of Pam’s whole storyline situation, and thus messed up the key link in the dynamics of the Dallas storylines, resulting in a downward spiral that particularly accelerated after both Paulsen’s departure and after they turned J.R. into a shell of himself in Season 12 DVD. Dallas just declined massively at this point.

As for Philip Capice and Larry Hagman, it seems that their differences and uneasy working relationship goes back to the “Who Shot J.R.?” period, where Hagman demanded new terms in order to return to Dallas, and won. Notice how the original co-Executive Producer with Capice in the first 3 seasons DVD, Lee Rich, left Dallas at this time. Hagman may have been excellent as J.R. and also a very good director, but he was a really poor Executive Producer with Katzman. Hagman and Katzman should have stuck to what they did best, and Capice being Executive Producer was the best thing for Dallas.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

When Leonard Katzman worked alongside Philip Capice, Katzman was obviously a huge part of what was successful on Dallas, as he was the Producer, a writer and a director. It seems obvious that Capice, the Executive Producer, would not agree to all that Katzman wanted to do on Dallas. Personally, I think that Capice made sure that Katzman’s positives got on the screen and that Katzman’s negatives didn’t so much, but that Katzman didn’t see those traits of his as negatives, so was frustrated.

I suspect that's the gist of it: Capice allowed Katzman's strengths to flourish, but likely put the breaks on his negatives.

But it's also hard to defend the negatives of the dream season under Capice. (Katzman went off to do another show, was listed as a creative consultant and wrote the occasional script, but had no control over the direction of the plots). Capice allowed Paulsen to get away, denying him Katzman's position when he left and it was given to Peter Dunne who, although he'd done good work on KNOTS, turned his sole season of DALLAS into a rambling, unfocused sudser. The oft-alleged "strength" of the DALLAS women during the dream season was strictly pantomime, and if anything, they were made stronger once Katzman returned (except for Pam's whining about Jenna's baby, she was actually tougher in the office).

Yes, the sexist comments returned with Katzman, but I didn't have a problem with that because that was just JR's personality and the Ewings' environment. All this pseudo-respect for women during the dream season smacked of smug '80s political correctness and I'm glad they dumped it.

Were the writers "male chauvinist pigs" as even Hagman later conceded? It sounds like Katzman was, at least in certain ways. But JR Ewing himself was supposed to be a chauvinist pig... So while you may have had a pig writing for a pig, spare me an enlightened writing staff like the one Dunne/Capice offered up whose New Woman sensibility demanded that everyone be homogenized in keeping with the media and cultural trends of the era which really had little to do with life at Southfork.

JR dehumanized everybody who wasn't JR. Why wouldn't he be the same way with women? It's just who he was.

But the identity issues of the dream season, which tried to uncomfortably blend the introspection of KNOTS with the glitzy junk of DYNASTY, could have been forgiven if the narrative had held together. But it just became a mess. (Same for TNT's nuDALLAS).

And yet once Capice was gone and Katzman was in total power, it only worked for a brief time (if one could overlook the "I just had a terrible 31 episode dream, Bobby!" speech which opened the new era, and many people couldn't).

And before long, Katzman was doing exactly the same kind of crap he'd complained that Capice had done to and for the show. So perhaps that was what Jacobs meant when he said the two men had "exactly the same approach to television."

I always recall that line from JR shortly after he was shot and Bobby had taken over the company: that JR was going to cut his brother out "even if I have to destroy Ewing Oil to do it!" And that internecine mindset seemed to play out behind the camera as well as in front.

A shame Paulsen never had the chance to become DALLAS' executive producer. He seemed to have an objective sense of narrative that superceded "power" issues. Perhaps that why he's said he'd "wanted to leave DALLAS" in 1988 even before he got the offer to take over limping DYNASTY, and then Larry sniped in the press that Paulsen lacked "a sense of humor": Paulsen was likely aware that Katzman and DALLAS was headed into an intentionally facetious era, and knew it wouldn't work.

Yes, Paulsen's Season 7 tenure on KNOTS' is controversial, and even I have some issue with it, but it still worked way better than what Dunne was doing on DALLAS that same year, despite what sounds like competitive staff issues on KNOTS as well.

As David Jacobs has said, these shows can have humor and comedy under the surface, but have to be "played absolutely straight" on the face of it, otherwise you have what amounts to a satire of something that's already a satire.

But when you learn about the on-set politics of these shows, especially from what sounds like the more objective sources, it just sounds as horrible and destructive as any awful office job you've ever had and hated -- and the good guys, and the talented folks, aren't always the key beneficiaries of that dynamic. Nor are the customers.

Holy Jesus, it's amazing they ever get anything good done at all, for however long they manage to do so!

 

[Rove]

But JR Ewing himself was supposed to be a chauvinist pig...

From the opening episode when JR placed his hand on Julie Grey's revealing thigh I knew we were in for a torrid ride with JR, but that's what I loved about him. As his roving eye drifted across the magnificent breasts displayed by numerous actresses there was no denying what the writers wanted us to think of JR. Even his sister-in-law, Pam, wasn't off limits.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

From the opening episode when JR placed his hand on Julie Grey's revealing thigh I knew we were in for a torrid ride with JR, but that's what I loved about him. As his roving eye drifted across the magnificent breasts displayed by numerous actresses there was no denying what the writers wanted us to think of JR. Even his sister-in-law, Pam, wasn't off limits.

Oh yeah, Pam's magnificent buoys!

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Oh yeah, Pam's magnificent buoys!

Had Pam bared her bouys, and Dallas had made it known it would happen, they might very well have broken the all time record for TV viewership.

 

[Chris2]

I would have liked to have seen what David Paulsen would have done with the later years of the series had he been in sole control. Katzman drove the show into the ground. That said, Paulsen was Katzman’s chief lieutenant during 87-88, which was not a great season, and was at least partly responsible for the debacle around Pam’s exit.

 

[Swami]

Don't forget though that Capice was responsible for the bulk of the nonsense in the dream season. Katzman admitted he had a brief contribution with the whole Angelica Nero rubbish, but it was only meant to last a few episodes.

I also think Larry being given the credit of executive producer with Katzman is over-played in terms of Larry's creative input.

Swami

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Don't forget though that Capice was responsible for the bulk of the nonsense in the dream season. Katzman admitted he had a brief contribution with the whole Angelica Nero rubbish, but it was only meant to last a few episodes.

I also think Larry being given the credit of executive producer with Katzman is over-played in terms of Larry's creative input.

Swami

I don't think Larry did any work as executive producer because I remember an interview where it was said that when offered the job he said "I don't know how to be executive producer" he was told, "don't worry,you don't have to do anything as executive producer; it's just an extra title for you which means you'll get paid more and it looks good on your resume."

 

[Swami]

I don't think Larry did any work as executive producer because I remember an interview where it was said that when offered the job he said "I don't know how to be executive producer" he was told, "don't worry,you don't have to do anything as executive producer; it's just an extra title for you which means you'll get paid more and it looks good on your resume."

After Larry and Patrick were executive producers of War Of The Ewings (after Leonard Katzman's death), both said they would never agree to those roles again.

Swami

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I don't think Larry did any work as executive producer because I remember an interview where it was said that when offered the job he said "I don't know how to be executive producer" he was told, "don't worry,you don't have to do anything as executive producer; it's just an extra title for you which means you'll get paid more and it looks good on your resume."

In Hagman's case the credit of Executive Producer was honorary. He wasn't a real Executive Producer at all, it was just a way to pay him more money.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I would have liked to have seen what David Paulsen would have done with the later years of the series had he been in sole control. Katzman drove the show into the ground. That said, Paulsen was Katzman’s chief lieutenant during 87-88, which was not a great season, and was at least partly responsible for the debacle around Pam’s exit.

Paulsen wanted to leave DALLAS that season, and one has to wonder why. Larry sniped in the press (when Paulsen did leave in 1988) that his exit was probably a good thing because Paulsen supposedly lacked a sense of humor.