An aging cast

[the-lost-son]

This thread is not meant to be offensive. Dallas' cast aged really well, but nonetheless during such a long run age is a factor which has its influence if certain storylines work or don't. Lenny Katzman said in the early 90s that the show was produced with the same care like a decade before. But still the ratings decreased. I think age was one reason that some plots did not work (starting around 1986).

Here are some of the shows cast members with their birth years.

Larry Hagman (*1931)
Linda Gray (*1940)
Patrick Duffy (*1949)
Victoria Principal (*1950, probably)
Barbara Gel Geddes (*1922)
Steve Kanaly (*1946)
Priscilla Presley (*1945)
Ken Kercheval (*1935)

During the late eighties I started to have a hard time that JR had still so many affairs. I know there are plenty of real-life examples, but when JR married Cally, it was cringeworthy. She could have been his granddaughter.

The same goes for Cliff in the late 80s. His fights with JR started to remind me at Waldorf&Statler of the Muppet show. Once a heated, intense rivalry and now two 60 year old ones arguing about who got the bigger office.

Miss Ellie having a crying fit like a teenager (because Clayton spends time with Laurel Ellis) although she is a 70 year old grandmother.

Even Bobby&Pam remarrying in 1986. Both are in the middle of their 30s. It was a big issue 9 years ago when their parents had a bigger influence in their life's and the feud was still strong. But now as middle aged people and Jock, Digger and Rebecca gone, it didn't feel like a big thing anymore.

On top of that the young characters are too young. Christopher and John Ross are uninteresting/annoying because nobody wants to watch 12 year old ones arguing about card games or having trouble with their stepmums.

Interestingly, the producers addressed this age issue once, when JR's doctor told him to reduce the liquor at his age.

Do you agree? Do you think age contributed to success or failure of certain storylines?

In retrospect, I would have loved a time jump like Desperate Housewives did where all the children got old enough to have a real personality. Then you could have continued the saga in the next generation (like TNT tried). But time jumps were probably hard to sell in a series which dreamed a full year.

 

[Chris2]

Dallas didn’t plan for the future well. There should have been several Ewing grandchildren at the outset, so they could have taken some of stories later in the series. But even when they did have younger characters later in the series, they weren’t written well. So I’m not sure just the presence of grandchildren would have helped. Maybe some younger writers would have helped too.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I would bet it gets tricky writing for the same characters after all those years. You have to find a way to keep the characters fresh yet you don’t want to take the character too far away from what made it successful in the first place, not to mention the fact that writers come and go and newer writers may not understand the character the way the writers that created the character did.

So yes I think age may have contributed to storylines not working out in Dallas’s case in the later years but I also think there were other factors as well.

 

[Alexis]

Lenny Katzman said in the early 90s that the show was produced with the same care like a decade before.

Smells like a lie.

 

[Angela Channing]

I always found in hard to believe that JR would have stuck with Sue Ellen for so long as she got older. He was the kind of man that would have traded her in for someone younger like Mandy instead of keep returning to his ex wife. Also, portraying Bobby as Mr Irresistible Action Man might have washed early in Dallas's run but by the time he was well into his middle age it became less credible.

 

[Crimson]

Dallas didn’t plan for the future well.

No, they really didn't. I increasingly view DALLAS as a one-trick pony. It did the one trick extremely well, but that was its only trick. When the show focused on the core Ewing family, but more specifically the interactions with Ewing Oil & the feud, the show clicked. Anything peripheral to that central story, or attempts at expanding or adding to it, generally didn't work. That main story sustained a surprisingly long time, lasting a good 6 to 7 seasons, but after that it was just endless repetition.

I suspect if the producers had any inkling DALLAS would last 14-ish seasons, they would have expanded the ensemble from the beginning; with younger Ewings and maybe even more on the Barnes side. As is, the last few seasons are basically just a couple of old men sniping at each other.

 

[Chris2]

I think Katzman said that if he knew it was going to run as long as it did, he wouldn’t have burned through story as quickly as they did. But that just would have made it slower. Your idea is the right one; they needed a bigger ensemble and wider focus from the beginning. Knots did a good job of expanding the cast and reinventing the show periodically because it was about a location. Katzman felt the show was about the Ewings only. There was an article published in the paper around the time Pam left, and he said something like, “Our show is about the Ewings and a Farlow and that’s it.” Wrong, Lenny.

 

[Barbara Fan]

I hated the pairing of JR and Cally, young enough to be his grandaughter and it made JR look like a pervy/dirty old man, it didnt sit well with me at all

However if it was Kimberley Cryder/Mandy or that ilk it would have been more believable

 

[Jimmy Todd]

No, they really didn't. I increasingly view DALLAS as a one-trick pony. It did the one trick extremely well, but that was its only trick. When the show focused on the core Ewing family, but more specifically the interactions with Ewing Oil & the feud, the show clicked. Anything peripheral to that central story, or attempts at expanding or adding to it, generally didn't work. That main story sustained a surprisingly long time, lasting a good 6 to 7 seasons, but after that it was just endless repetition.

I suspect if the producers had any inkling DALLAS would last 14-ish seasons, they would have expanded the ensemble from the beginning; with younger Ewings and maybe even more on the Barnes side. As is, the last few seasons are basically just a couple of old men sniping at each other.

Very well put. The seasons became Sue Ellen in love with JR, finding out he cheated, the fight, she drinks; going to court for Ewing Oil. A major factor in the shows favor was the quality of the acting and the actors' chemistry.

 

[Chris2]

I hated the pairing of JR and Cally, young enough to be his grandaughter and it made JR look like a pervy/dirty old man, it didnt sit well with me at all

However if it was Kimberley Cryder/Mandy or that ilk it would have been more believable

100% agreed. JR was a rich, powerful man. There would have been a lot of women competing to be Mrs Ewing. And he winds up with this bumpkin?

 

[Angela Channing]

100% agreed. JR was a rich, powerful man. There would have been a lot of women competing to be Mrs Ewing. And he winds up with this bumpkin?

I agree, Cally was a ghastly character and wasn't at all suited to JR, however for me it was more about the character than her age. It would have been totally believable for him to marry a significantly younger woman like the real life oil tycoon J. Howard Marshall II who married a woman 63 years younger than he was. JR was all about building up Ewing Oil to pass down to his heirs like his Daddy did so he would want a younger woman who could provide him with more children. However, Dallas never was good at changing the dynamics of the show so when couples got divorced they eventually remarried.

 

[Billy Wall]

I always found in hard to believe that JR would have stuck with Sue Ellen for so long as she got older. He was the kind of man that would have traded her in for someone younger like Mandy instead of keep returning to his ex wife. Also, portraying Bobby as Mr Irresistible Action Man might have washed early in Dallas's run but by the time he was well into his middle age it became less credible.

JR needed a wife like Sue Ellen. She looked good and she was weak. Would Mandy or anybody else hang around while he had his late night “meetings?”

 

[Angela Channing]

JR needed a wife like Sue Ellen. She looked good and she was weak. Would Mandy or anybody else hang around while he had his late night “meetings?”

Sue Ellen wouldn't hang around for that either which was a big part in why she divorced him.

The producers missed a trick in not having JR marry a younger woman who could give him more children. Sue Ellen could have gone on to marry an older man with adult children who would all become rivals to the Ewings and bring down the average age of the cast.

 

[Billy Wall]

Sue Ellen wouldn't hang around for that either which was a big part in why she divorced him.

Sue Ellen tolerated JR’s cheating for a very long time. According to Miss Ellie, JR neglected her from the moment he brought her into the house.

 

[Chris2]

Another reason for the Ewing boys not to live with their mommy, who’s all in their business.

 

[Billy Wall]

Another reason for the Ewing boys not to live with their mommy, who’s all in their business.

That was ridiculous, but we all know why they lived there. It made for great TV.

 

[the-lost-son]

David Jacobs once said that Knots Landing was more difficult to produce than Dallas because you had to find reasons for the neighbors to interact instead of stopping to speak with each other (like many people do).

In the early outline of the series JR and Bobby fought for their parents' approval and the top position of Ewing Oil.

At the end, Jock is dead, Miss Ellie is out of the picture, the company we knew was gone, so why do these middle-aged brothers, live under the same roof, keep interacting with each other instead of starting their own clan?

Romantic storyline are easier to portray if you focus on passion. But these rational motivations were increasingly unclear in the end.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Frankly, I don't think the aging cast had anything to do with it --- network executives are always trying to "youth up" older shows, and it never really works.

It's about the talent of the writers.

Each of the '80s nighttime soaps needed a creative mentor -- a guiding producer who not only understood character and the series' flavor, but who could also bring an annual sense of renewed scandal that befit the show in question, a yearly sense of structure. Rinse and repeat.

It's a distinct and unique skill, and not everybody has it.

Paulsen had it. Robert McCullough had it. David Jacobs presumably had it.

Katzman did not -- at least not by himself. Esther Shapiro didn't bother with it. Most producers and show-runners just didn't know how to do this terribly well. And DALLAS never had a post-WSJR? season that really worked in which David Paulsen wasn't deeply involved.

That said, I'm a little bit of a defender of Cally; at least she was played by a decent and game actress, and the JR/Cally marriage was an intentional mismatch -- it wasn't by accident.



"Oh, Clayton,, I'm so tired of this bullshyte..."

 

[Lastkidpicked]

You all make some very good points here, and this is an interesting thread!
On the family continuing to live at Southfork, may I add the perspective of a Texan?
A lot of houses you own because you bought them. And you know you plan to sell them later.
In Texas a ranch, including Southfork Ranch, is much different.

Southfork Ranch would have been lost to foreclosure in 1959. Ellie Southworth saved the ranch by marrying Jock Ewing, who made enough money in oil to save the ranch. Miss Ellie is a strong woman, but look at the power dynamic here. She "grew to love Jock" but imagine the sacrifices she made in her desperation to save the ranch.

Somebody much smarter than me commented on these boards that "Southfork is a character all on it's own" and I agree with that.

For Bobby, the ties to Southfork are obvious. But even J.R. could never truly call any other place "home". Remember that J.R. did not learn the oil business at Ewing Oil. He learned it at Southfork, by watching and listening to Jock before J.R. was old enough to come into the office.

When J.R. or Bobby make the remark, "Daddy always said this" or "Daddy always said that", those quotes were made at Southfork, while the boys were growing up.

I spend time at a lot of ranches, because I live here. Most of them have stories about the sacrifices made to keep the ranch in the family. You will hear stories about adult children giving up college to come back to save the ranch. You will hear stories about younger kids who dropped out of school to save the ranch.

After the sacrifices made to keep the ranch in the family, you can't just buy a luxury condo in downtown Dallas and consider it "home". The ranch will always be home.

Look at this tribute to Larry Hagman. Ask yourself where it was filmed.

Oh yes. Southfork is the one place the characters would always return.

 

[the-lost-son]

You all make some very good points here, and this is an interesting thread!
On the family continuing to live at Southfork, may I add the perspective of a Texan?
A lot of houses you own because you bought them. And you know you plan to sell them later.
In Texas a ranch, including Southfork Ranch, is much different.

Southfork Ranch would have been lost to foreclosure in 1959. Ellie Southworth saved the ranch by marrying Jock Ewing, who made enough money in oil to save the ranch. Miss Ellie is a strong woman, but look at the power dynamic here. She "grew to love Jock" but imagine the sacrifices she made in her desperation to save the ranch.

Somebody much smarter than me commented on these boards that "Southfork is a character all on it's own" and I agree with that.

For Bobby, the ties to Southfork are obvious. But even J.R. could never truly call any other place "home". Remember that J.R. did not learn the oil business at Ewing Oil. He learned it at Southfork, by watching and listening to Jock before J.R. was old enough to come into the office.

When J.R. or Bobby make the remark, "Daddy always said this" or "Daddy always said that", those quotes were made at Southfork, while the boys were growing up.

I spend time at a lot of ranches, because I live here. Most of them have stories about the sacrifices made to keep the ranch in the family. You will hear stories about adult children giving up college to come back to save the ranch. You will hear stories about younger kids who dropped out of school to save the ranch.

After the sacrifices made to keep the ranch in the family, you can't just buy a luxury condo in downtown Dallas and consider it "home". The ranch will always be home.

Look at this tribute to Larry Hagman. Ask yourself where it was filmed.

Oh yes. Southfork is the one place the characters would always return.

I can't agree more. I live in our old family ranch myself. It's been in our family for 100 years and I'd never ever sell it.

Agriculture and farming changed significantly in Germany unlike any other industry. Small farmers (like my granddad) stopped farming during the 70s like nearly everyone else. It's either grow or give way.

It's 25 acres of meadows plus forest and a tiny lake. The cattle is gone, the old ranch house has been rebuilt by my father with two flats and it's just beautiful.

The more I think of it - my father's love for the land resembles that of Miss Ellie's. The difficult times, episodes during the war and all these stories about the people could fill a book easily.

I could never sell it. It'd kill my father.

I'm glad they never did a plot about the Ewings losing Southfork, not even temporarily.