Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
If anybody here had a daughter that was married was treated like Sue Ellen and she said to you, “he really loves me.” Your response would be “does he?”
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
I mean, I don't argue that. Not at all.
If Sue Ellen had been my daughter I would have shot the bastard myself.
But, like I keep saying, as much as he was capable of love, he DID love her.
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
I just don’t see how you can constantly abuse someone and still claim to love that person. And make no mistake about it, Sue Ellen was an abused woman.
Yes, JR had his moments. But more times than not it was for convenience. He might not have hated Sue Ellen even though at times you wonder, but as for loving her, I just don’t see it.
Ladies, can you imagine your husband telling you to your face, “whoever I’m with is better than the slut I’m looking at right now.” But he loved her.
Yes, JR had his moments. But more times than not it was for convenience. He might not have hated Sue Ellen even though at times you wonder, but as for loving her, I just don’t see it.
Ladies, can you imagine your husband telling you to your face, “whoever I’m with is better than the slut I’m looking at right now.” But he loved her.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
I'm not arguing your point of view, just explaining mine.
I get it. He was vile and abusive.
So was she though, at times.
Their relationship was toxic. And I have just always believed it was because they were both so damaged. But clearly, there was something that kept them coming back together all those years.
I just wish the writers had given us better insight as to WHY they were both so damaged. Especially JR. I
I get it. He was vile and abusive.
So was she though, at times.
Their relationship was toxic. And I have just always believed it was because they were both so damaged. But clearly, there was something that kept them coming back together all those years.
I just wish the writers had given us better insight as to WHY they were both so damaged. Especially JR. I
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
Sue Ellen kept coming back because she was weak. JR himself told Miss Ellie that “she’ll be back. She can’t make it on her own.” Make no mistake, Sue Ellen liked being Mrs JR Ewing. It’s no secret she enjoyed the finer things in life.
The reason why JR wanted Sue Ellen was because not only was she just weak, she was beautiful. She was the absolute perfect wife for him. JR could never be married to someone like Donna or Pam.
Last edited:
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
She was the perfect wife for him?
Maybe in the beginning. But after all the affairs? The drunkenness? The paternity test in the newspaper? The constant public embarrassment to him and his family?
She was FAR from the perfect wife for him. Yet, he kept going back.
And it wasn't her beauty either. Mandy was beautiful. JR cared for her. Yet he let a few pictures in her underwear drive him away Sure he was embarrassed. But more so that when his wife's adultery got written up in the headlines?
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
She didn’t start out as a drunk and who drove her to the bottle? She was the perfect wife for him because no matter how bad he treated her , he knew she wasn’t going anywhere or if she did leave, she’ll be back.
Mandy was beautiful, but do you really think she’s the kind that would stick around and be treated like that for years?
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
I don't know. I happen to view any woman who consents to be a mistress to a man who goes home to his wife every night to be "weak."
Ukdallasfan
Telly Talk Fan
Complex and highly watchable. There was something about those two that made us fans keep coming back for more 
Laurie!
Telly Talk Fan
I just find it very dangerous; especially in today's Me Too era, to imply that a highly toxic and abusive relationship is a loving relationship. Even Linda Gray agrees that SE and JR were awful people and shouldn't be emulated....but I get the entertainment value.This isn't true. And the same could be said for Pam and Bobby. Pam left Bobby for the most ridiculous reason, and Bobby didn't go after her.
These comments are really putting me off posting here to be honest. So many of us are huge JR and Sue Ellen fans and they were together for a really long time, telling each other they loved one another repeatedly. It may not be a sunshine and lollipops romance but it was real, dirty, true and lasted until the VERY end (JR's death).
It really upsets me to read this. To deny that he loved her and especially that she loved him (he was her life), is very hurtful to their big fans. And as Sue Ellen's biggest supporter to say she only stayed with JR because of money and the name shows me you don't know her character at all. Sue Ellen, and JR for that matter are both extremely complex and to state these things shows you haven't even looked beyond what you see on the surface.Ugh.
We can agree that both of them thought they loved the other but should also agree that it isn't a relationship any of us would ever want for ourselves and we certainly shouldn't try to rationalize the normalcy of it....it was vile.
Bobby and Pam on the other hand, didn't have an abusive relationship. No relationship is perfect, but I can't off the top of my head, think of an abuse example in their coupling. You could try to argue that it was abusive of Pam to leave Bobby and Christopher (not that I'd judge the relationship based on a hap-hazard writing choice for Victoria's exit) but unless you've been severely disfigured/broken and high on pain meds, you wouldn't have a clue what a "normal" reaction would be in that circumstance.
Which brings us back to the topic at hand...Bobby definitely should have searched for Pam under the circumstances. He himself even broke his engagement to Jenna, just because he was blind and didn't want to be a burden. He also knew Miss Ellie's instinct to push Jock away after/before her mastectomy.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
EXACTLY.
Also, it just seems to go against everything we knew about his hero complex. Bobby loved to ride his white horse to the rescue, but the one time he really NEEDED to be a hero was the one time he kept the white horse in the stable.
Sarah
Moderator Emerita
Yes @Laurie! she did, but she also said, as did Larry MANY times that they loved each other. Im not advocating danger at all - I just happen to adore them chemistry and relationship and yes, love that they have for each other - it’s unparalleled in my opinion.
I’m just trying to enjoy them as people enjoy Pam and Bobby. I just find it don’t understand some of these comments or why some can only see the surface, with no desire to peel back the layers of these complex pair.
It hurts that anyone would think I’m advocating danger. They’re my favourite couple and I’ve always adored them and thats not going to change. But I do take offence at saying I’m advocating dysfunctional relationships when I just come here to try to enjoy JR and Sue Ellen as I have my whole life. I am tired of not being able to have a discussion about Pam and Bobby without JR and Sue Ellen being criticised (not aimed at anyone in particular). Why can’t I just enjoy them without being told it’s unhealthy?
I’m just trying to enjoy them as people enjoy Pam and Bobby. I just find it don’t understand some of these comments or why some can only see the surface, with no desire to peel back the layers of these complex pair.
It hurts that anyone would think I’m advocating danger. They’re my favourite couple and I’ve always adored them and thats not going to change. But I do take offence at saying I’m advocating dysfunctional relationships when I just come here to try to enjoy JR and Sue Ellen as I have my whole life. I am tired of not being able to have a discussion about Pam and Bobby without JR and Sue Ellen being criticised (not aimed at anyone in particular). Why can’t I just enjoy them without being told it’s unhealthy?
Laurie!
Telly Talk Fan
@Sarah nobody is saying that JR and SE can't be enjoyed or their love for each other isn't credible. You're entitled to your opinion and I understand being a fan.
I just think that sometimes, we have to be careful that we don't in any way, shape or form, condone their treatment of each other...no matter their hidden reasons that need to be discovered by peeling back the layers.
Both JR and SE hopefully would have spent long periods of time in jail if they were a non fictional couple. So it's important sometimes to ensure that we never try to excuse their behaviour, just because they may have reasons for being horrible people. For example, a serial rapist may have been abused by a woman as a child, but that should never excuse their abhorrent acts. That's all I was saying.
I just think that sometimes, we have to be careful that we don't in any way, shape or form, condone their treatment of each other...no matter their hidden reasons that need to be discovered by peeling back the layers.
Both JR and SE hopefully would have spent long periods of time in jail if they were a non fictional couple. So it's important sometimes to ensure that we never try to excuse their behaviour, just because they may have reasons for being horrible people. For example, a serial rapist may have been abused by a woman as a child, but that should never excuse their abhorrent acts. That's all I was saying.