Bobby's resurrection must be tied to Angelica Nero...

[Crimson]

Perfect? Maybe not.

Right -- it's always going to be the dull stick or the sharp stick.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Right -- it's always going to be the dull stick or the sharp stick.

Which is the Pam-Ewing's-Dream s(h)tick -- the dull one or the sharp one?

 

[Crimson]

It's an upgrade!

 

[Spooky Owl!]

It's an upgrade!

It's an upgrade?? The dream scenario? From what?

Now I seem to be upsetting you. Which upsets me. What do we do?

 

[Crimson]

Nah, not upset. I confused myself and was thinking of your proposed Bobby's dream resolution. In terms of pokes to the eye, I'd rank them thusly:

Any scenario where Bobby didn't actually die even though we watched it happen -- sharp stick
Pam's dream -- dull stick
Bobby's dream -- Moe's fingers

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Any scenario where Bobby didn't actually die even though we watched it happen -- sharp stick
Pam's dream -- dull stick
Bobby's dream -- Moe's fingers

But..... but.....but (now, I'm really nervous) isn't the second one part of the first one?

 

[Crimson]

Apparently this was the most cumbersome and ill effective analogy of all time but, no. The first one is any non-Dream resolution.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Apparently this was the most cumbersome and ill effective analogy of all time but, no. The first one is any non-Dream resolution.

So you choose Pam's Dream scenario as the dullest (and less painful) stick?

I'm not being obstreperous, but I really am not sure of what you're saying.

Let me ask this instead: what is your view of Season 10 (per DVD)?

 

[Crimson]

I don't like any proposed scenario other than a Dream. Any explanation offered on this forum through the years to explain how Bobby didn't actually die but was rather whisked away and placed into hiding is too contrived, too hoary, even for a soap. He died on screen. We saw the Ewings mourn him in private. . This isn't like Dusty or Mark, who 'died' off screen. Bobby's death was a complete boxed in scenario. It's the Kobayashi Maru. The only way to get passed it is to bypass it. (I'm not a STAR TREK fan, so I'm impressed I know that reference.)

I don't hate the Dream resolution, I just think it was very badly executed. For doing something so bold and risky, the producers and writers should have been much more cautious in how they executed it. Since I thoroughly dislike S9, I'm happy to see it invalidated. Given a choice, your idea of the Dream being Bobby's rather than Pam's makes more sense but I'd take either of them over a non-Dream resolution.

I haven't seen S10 since probably the 90s and my memories of it are getting dim. I think it was a step back in the right direction, but also not as good as the seasons prior to S9.

And all of the above is why I consider this to be the definitive end of DALLAS. Everything else is apocrypha in my head. I don't even own anything past S8.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

That's where we really differ -- I find a dream scenario the worst possible option (except for Bobby's evil twin, played by Alan Thicke?).

I mean, is anything really more contrived than a year-long dream? The only benefit to a dream explanation is that it's quicker, less-convoluted by its very nature.

But we saw how that turned out.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I don't hate the Dream resolution, I just think it was very badly executed. For doing something so bold and risky, the producers and writers should have been much more cautious in how they executed it

As I’ve said on other threads about the subject, I don’t necessarily hate the Dream explanation anymore. Like you I feel the bigger problem was in the execution. That one scene is the JTS moment of the show for me. It never quite feels the same again.

And all of the above is why I consider this to be the definitive end of DALLAS. Everything else is apocrypha in my head. I don't even own anything past S8.

Swan Song is the perfect place to end it in my opinion. The story was told and everything had come full circle. If not there than I’ve always proposed the Dream Season as being the other choice. Dallas ends with the shower scene and we’re left to speculate as to how Bobby got there, was it really him and what happened after that. I know most don’t like the uncertainty of such an open ended scenario but I would’ve been fine with it. For me Dallas ends in one of those two places.

Katherine, already on the lam for shooting Bobby a year ago, could have hired Angelica anonymously through some shadowy hitman biz overseas, Katherine never realizes that she herself would wind up killing Bobby before Angelica and her team have time to go after the Ewings.

Angela has no idea her faceless sponsor is dead.

Meanwhile, the feds keep a comatose Bobby on lockdown, aware there's an international plot abrewin'.

Having said all that, I do still like this scenario as an alternative to the Dream itself. The idea of Katherine being Angelica’s sponsor and pulling the strings from the grave without Angelica even knowing who that sponsor is is very appealing to me.

 

[Crimson]

As I’ve said on other threads about the subject, I don’t necessarily hate the Dream explanation anymore. Like you I feel the bigger problem was in the execution.

I imagine there's some correlation between how much one likes/dislikes S9 and how much one prefers the Dream resolution over an in story explanation for Bobby's return. Me, I hate S9. With its drag queen outfits and European intrigue storylines it's not DALLAS, it's DYNASTY(esque). Thus, I like the idea of just tossing out S9.

In order to work, the strands of S8 and S10 would have had to be perfectly aligned including dropping any characters/ideas introduced in S9. Obviously, that didn't happen. I may be mistaken as I haven't watched it in ages, but I think the ladies didn't even have the same hairstyles at the start of S10 as the end of S8 -- a lazy and contemptuous lack of attention to detail.

Dallas ends with the shower scene and we’re left to speculate as to how Bobby got there, was it really him and what happened after that. I know most don’t like the uncertainty of such an open ended scenario but I would’ve been fine with it.

It's funny to think how much more chaotic this forum would have been through the years in DALLAS had ended ambiguously!

(*Edit -- although I guess it did, with the did or didn't JR shoot himself ending)

 

[Ray_Krebbs]

Perhaps Bobby remains deceased but appears as a spirit along the lines of Brenda Strong in DH, watching the characters over and giving narration.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I imagine there's some correlation between how much one likes/dislikes S9 and how much one prefers the Dream resolution over an in story explanation for Bobby's return. Me, I hate S9.

I’m not a big fan of that season myself. I enjoy the very beginning and the last few episodes but in the middle I just don’t feel like I’m watching Dallas anymore for the most part. Looking at it in that context and having done several rewatches over the years I can accept the idea of it all being a dream now more than I could back then. Do I love the explanation? No, but I don’t necessarily hate it. I just wish they had done it better somehow. Whether that would’ve made a difference we’ll never know.

It's funny to think how much more chaotic this forum would have been through the years in DALLAS had ended ambiguously!

I would’ve loved it but I’m afraid I’m in the minority on that one. I don’t mind an ambiguous ending cause that’s quite often how life goes. Of course most people do like closure so I get it. Regardless, they would’ve had to address what happened at some point given the reunion movies and TNT so in reality my idea wouldn’t have worked long term.

 

[Guzzler’s Frightening Hair]

After sustaining such a traumatic brain injury at the hands of Katherine’s late-model Buick, it makes sense that Bobby might have lost all memory of anything other than how to style a generous mane of dark hair. Angelica took advantage of this, brainwashing him into believing he was named “Nicholas” and was her assistant, allowing her to keep Bobby under her thumb as she enacted a devious plan to cement her position on top of Marinos Shipping and steal Ewing Oil from JR for good measure.

Unfortunately for Angelica, when she nearly killed him with a hatpin, Bobby began to regain his memory. After a few weeks spent in hiding rebuilding his strength, Bobby decided to reemerge with his true identity. He was still pretty loopy from the car accident and subsequent coma and hatpin impalement, hence the decision to do so by surprising Pam in her shower (instead of showing up at Southfork or going to the police or something more rational).

seen above: immaculately coiffed but noticeably thinner after weeks in a coma, Bobby conducts a business call on an elegant telephone as “Nicholas”.

 

[Crimson]

I imagine there's some correlation between how much one likes/dislikes S9 and how much one prefers the Dream resolution over an in story explanation for Bobby's return.

One additional complication to defending the Dream resolution that I've never given much consideration to: KNOTS LANDING. I didn't watch KNOTS. Not only have I never seen an episode, I'm pretty sure I've never even seen a clip of the show. The impact the Dream had on another show really meant nothing to me, but that is a pretty big monkey wrench to throw into a spin-off .

 

[CryptCreeper72]

One additional complication to defending the Dream resolution that I've never given much consideration to: KNOTS LANDING. I didn't watch KNOTS. Not only have I never seen an episode, I'm pretty sure I've never even seen a clip of the show. The impact the Dream had on another show really meant nothing to me, but that is a pretty big monkey wrench to throw into a spin-off .

It totally threw off Knots. There could no longer be any cross overs or connection to the Ewings in Texas and the Ewings in California.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

One additional complication to defending the Dream resolution that I've never given much consideration to: KNOTS LANDING. I didn't watch KNOTS. Not only have I never seen an episode, I'm pretty sure I've never even seen a clip of the show. The impact the Dream had on another show really meant nothing to me, but that is a pretty big monkey wrench to throw into a spin-off .

The KNOTS' folks basically made an official announcement that the two series were breaking ties once it was revealed Bobby had been revived via a dream. There were no more cross-overs after that.

When David Jacobs learned Katzman planned to use the dream, Jacobs responded that it was a terrible idea. Katzman challenged/taunted Jacobs to come up with a better scenario, but it doesn't sound like Jacobs attempted to do so (he's on record saying that he would have used a different solution) because Katzman wanted to use the dream.

Had Bobby's death been undone in a more artful way, I envision a darkened scene between Gary and Valene (in a doorway) as he tells her that Bobby is still alive and never actually died, Gary brooding over what kind of sickness exists in his Texas family that things like this can happen.

KNOTS LANDING is really very good, by the way. The first couple of seasons are admittedly a little odd, but it's smarter and more consistent and character-based than its parent series.

 

[DallasFanForever]

The KNOTS' folks basically made an official announcement that the two series were breaking ties once it was revealed Bobby had been revived via a dream. There were no more cross-overs after that.

So did they change the reason that little Bobby was named after his “dead” uncle or did they just never address how he got that name ever again?

 

[CryptCreeper72]

So did they change the reason that little Bobby was named after his “dead” uncle or did they just never address how he got that name ever again?

As far as I can recall it was never mentioned again.