Bobbys return

[Grangehill1]

We all know Patrick was promised meatier storylines and a tougher Bobby when he returned to Dallas.

Did that actually translate to screen or was it still the same Bobby?

 

[cws]

We all know Patrick was promised meatier storylines and a tougher Bobby when he returned to Dallas.

Did that actually translate to screen or was it still the same Bobby?

He seemed the same to me!!! Patrick came back because Larry wanted him to.

 

[Barbara Fan]

Patrick came back because Larry wanted him to.

And they paid him lots more $$$$ than when he left the show

 

[cws]

And they paid him lots more $$$$ than when he left the show

I guess Patrick got greedy and left. I guess he thought people would be lining up to hire him. Unfortunately, when he did come back, it wasn't the same. Just my opinion!!

 

[stevew]

I guess Patrick got greedy and left. I guess he thought people would be lining up to hire him. Unfortunately, when he did come back, it wasn't the same. Just my opinion!!

Agreed. I don’t think I’d have welcomed him back if I was running things. I would have said it’s not possible without being absurd and moved on.

I would have returned with JR by Sue Ellen’s bedside, months and months into a recovery, leave people guessing, will she live or die, will this even be LG, make it more realistic as to what would happen after an explosion. Then I think the show needed a reset.

Problem for me was there was no one to follow. Thank believe at this point JR was too old to keep up his game. He needed to take on the role of Jock and they didn’t seem to want to do that. If he has they would have needed Dona Reed or thought about bringing back Patrick Duffy.

Problem was, if he was Jock, John Ross was to young to provide the drama needed and certainly not in his own. I think that’s how we ended up with James, but frankly that was way to little way to late.

 

[cws]

Agreed. I don’t think I’d have welcomed him back if I was running things. I would have said it’s not possible without being absurd and moved on.

I would have returned with JR by Sue Ellen’s bedside, months and months into a recovery, leave people guessing, will she live or die, will this even be LG, make it more realistic as to what would happen after an explosion. Then I think the show needed a reset.

Problem for me was there was no one to follow. Thank believe at this point JR was too old to keep up his game. He needed to take on the role of Jock and they didn’t seem to want to do that. If he has they would have needed Dona Reed or thought about bringing back Patrick Duffy.

Problem was, if he was Jock, John Ross was to young to provide the drama needed and certainly not in his own. I think that’s how we ended up with James, but frankly that was way to little way to late.

James was a total waste, in my opinion. Those last 2 years were just a TOTAL WASTE. It just didn't make sense at all.

 

[Clubsoda]

Dallas really didn't require his return despite what they all said about the dream year being a disaster including Patrick himself.

Ratings were still decent and his return didn't shoot them up at all like they all probably thought. I'd have loved to see a continuation of the dream resolution without Bobby.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Dallas really didn't require his return despite what they all said about the dream year being a disaster including Patrick himself.

Ratings were still decent and his return didn't shoot them up at all like they all probably thought. I'd have loved to see a continuation of the dream resolution without Bobby.

Imho, the "dream season" started off very strong and it looked as if Bobby's death was going to breathe new life into the series. It wasn't until they went all in on the Barbara Carrera character plot, forgot about Pam vs JR and trying to be more "Dynasty" than Dallas that it floundered.
I like Patrick Duffy, but there's a bit of hubris there in him thinking only his absence was responsible for the downturn and only his return could save it. It's ultimately mostly about the writing.

 

[stevew]

James was a total waste, in my opinion. Those last 2 years were just a TOTAL WASTE. It just didn't make sense at all.

I agree. Like I said too little too late.

 

[stevew]

Dallas really didn't require his return despite what they all said about the dream year being a disaster including Patrick himself.

Ratings were still decent and his return didn't shoot them up at all like they all probably thought. I'd have loved to see a continuation of the dream resolution without Bobby.

Same here.

 

[stevew]

Imho, the "dream season" started off very strong and it looked as if Bobby's death was going to breathe new life into the series. It wasn't until they went all in on the Barbara Carrera character plot, forgot about Pam vs JR and trying to be more "Dynasty" than Dallas that it floundered.
I like Patrick Duffy, but there's a bit of hubris there in him thinking only his absence was responsible for the downturn and only his return could save it. It's ultimately mostly about the writing.

Honestly I felt the same way with Dallas TNT. His presence was not needed and hurt the series the way he was written. JR and Sue Ellen jumping in and out worked. Bobby being a regular was a disaster imho.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Agreed. I don’t think I’d have welcomed him back if I was running things. I would have said it’s not possible without being absurd and moved on.

I would have returned with JR by Sue Ellen’s bedside, months and months into a recovery, leave people guessing, will she live or die, will this even be LG, make it more realistic as to what would happen after an explosion. Then I think the show needed a reset.

Problem for me was there was no one to follow. Thank believe at this point JR was too old to keep up his game. He needed to take on the role of Jock and they didn’t seem to want to do that. If he has they would have needed Dona Reed or thought about bringing back Patrick Duffy.

Problem was, if he was Jock, John Ross was to young to provide the drama needed and certainly not in his own. I think that’s how we ended up with James, but frankly that was way to little way to late.

There's still the Steve Forrest character of Ben Stivers who morphed into Wes Parmalee, you could've made him into being Jock as per the original season nine cliffhanger.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Dallas really didn't require his return despite what they all said about the dream year being a disaster including Patrick himself.

Ratings were still decent and his return didn't shoot them up at all like they all probably thought. I'd have loved to see a continuation of the dream resolution without Bobby.

Yeah one which didn't cost the loss of such an acting talent as Steve Forrest.

Steve was a terrific actor and I still believe he would've been a great Jock Ewing if that storyline had been allowed to play out instead of bringing Bobby back.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Same here.

I have mixed feelings. It seemed that Bobby as the "good" son fulfilled a narrative function that was not adequately replaced in his absence.
I don't know exactly what ratings were - I think Wiki placed the Dream season at #6, the next season at #11, but viewership per ep was down only slightly,
18.8 mill to 18.6 mil. The next season I think fell to #21, 15.6 mill per episode, even though I thought it was a decent series.
I think that ratings would have declined anyway, the series was starting to reach the end of its shelf life, the return of PD may have prevented a steeper decline, unless there was a drastic change of story direction.

I think the dream season needed a strong Pam, but it just didn't work, VP is simply not a good enough actress to carry that much of the load,
and the show began to look like more pure soap opera, not the special unique Dallas experience.

What If.. Digger had another son or daughter (by another woman) who could rival the Ewings, Cliff then enters an uneasy alliance with JR,
Steve Forrest is Jock Ewing returning, and Jeremy Wendell plays all sides.

Fan Fiction perhaps, maybe even bad fan fiction, but I think a drastic change was needed without Bobby.

 

[stevew]

I have mixed feelings. It seemed that Bobby as the "good" son fulfilled a narrative function that was not adequately replaced in his absence.
I don't know exactly what ratings were - I think Wiki placed the Dream season at #6, the next season at #11, but viewership per ep was down only slightly,
18.8 mill to 18.6 mil. The next season I think fell to #21, 15.6 mill per episode, even though I thought it was a decent series.
I think that ratings would have declined anyway, the series was starting to reach the end of its shelf life, the return of PD may have prevented a steeper decline, unless there was a drastic change of story direction.

I think the dream season needed a strong Pam, but it just didn't work, VP is simply not a good enough actress to carry that much of the load,
and the show began to look like more pure soap opera, not the special unique Dallas experience.

What If.. Digger had another son or daughter (by another woman) who could rival the Ewings, Cliff then enters an uneasy alliance with JR,
Steve Forrest is Jock Ewing returning, and Jeremy Wendell plays all sides.

Fan Fiction perhaps, maybe even bad fan fiction, but I think a drastic change was needed without Bobby.

I’ll agree a dramatic shift was needed and extend it to with or without Bobby. I think JR as a lead character had reached his “self life” and so not only should Bobby had been left to leave, the show needed a new breakout character. They simply didn’t have it and made no effort to find such.

I like your thinking about a new character forcing Cliff and JR together. I think they had such in Jeremy Wendell already and just did not make full use of the character or actor. I do think they should have done a lot more there. The end of the Barnes Ewing feud replaced with a Wendell Ewing feud sounded fitting. Sort of H.L. Hunt vs J. Paul Getty is how I would have looked at it. I would have married Katherine to Wendell with a pardon Wendell arranged, Katherine thus getting away with murdering Bobby and Wendell going after the Wentworth money Pam and Cliff “stole” from Katherine. And I’d have brought in family of Wendell’s.

I also think that Lucy could have done more. I think the actress could have pulled off a stronger role under JR’s wing but I think CT was underestimated. And Donna’s character has a lot more to mine that they just wrote off.

To me I think the thing they weren’t capable of doing was to make JR a supporting character and walk away from Bobby and that damaged the show right through the movies and the TNT continuation.

 

[DallasFanForever]

To me I think the thing they weren’t capable of doing was to make JR a supporting character

Was it possible to even make that only a supporting character though? I just can’t see it. He was just too big and too widely popular. And I don’t think the fans would’ve ever accepted it. Just my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Was it possible to even make that only a supporting character though? I just can’t see it. He was just too big and too widely popular. And I don’t think the fans would’ve ever accepted it. Just my humble opinion, of course.

The problem was that as the breakout character, Larry unfortunately had too much power and control behind the scenes. Sometimes that was actually to the detriment of the show.

Dallas really should've been an ensemble show, the way it originally started out. There should've been a better balance storyline wise with all of the show's cast members instead of ultimately turning Dallas into the Bobby & JR show.

 

[stevew]

Was it possible to even make that only a supporting character though? I just can’t see it. He was just too big and too widely popular. And I don’t think the fans would’ve ever accepted it. Just my humble opinion, of course.

I certainly do - certainly not all but many would have been fine to see him morph into the patriarch role. He was certainly old enough for it and there wasn’t much more he could do without becoming ridiculous - which is what they did. It doesn’t mean you’d seldom see him or he wouldn’t be important. Jock was seen a lot and was very important; it just means the heavy lifting, the role of fighting, winning and losing, and sleeping around, and such would fall more and more on another actor instead of all resting on him. It became the JR show trying to emulate Dynasty and that just did not work as well as when it was the Ewing show doing their own thing.

 

[stevew]

The problem was that as the breakout character, Larry unfortunately had too much power and control behind the scenes. Sometimes that was actually to the detriment of the show.

Dallas really should've been an ensemble show, the way it originally started out. There should've been a better balance storyline wise with all of the show's cast members instead of ultimately turning Dallas into the Bobby & JR show.

I agree. The ensemble was what made the show work and instead of working toward another break out character they focused too much on JR and I’d add an attempt to emulate Dynasty. 1st: BBG needs to leave shouldn’t have been an opportunity to take on Dynasty with DR. 2nd by the time Bobby died JR was ready to head up the family. He could be a ruthless sob without sleeping around and losing at every turn, Jock did it (so did Angela Channing). He just needed others to get a chance to “break out.”

Return 6 months later:

Miss Ellie and Clayton have left, giving SF to JR. JR and Sue Ellen focus on their marriage and son

Lucy Ewing returns with a very rich husband in tow

Pam has married Jeremy Wendell. Wendell’s 20 something children show up - a sort of Jackie O story.

Donna is executor of Bobby’s estate and JR’s new “partner.” Her marriage with Ray is out to the test. Sam Culver’s youngest son shows up and calls Donna “Momma.”

Katherine’s young lawyer represents her in a case contesting Rebecca’s will, bankrupting Pam and Cliff while another team fight to keep her from prison while she hides out of the country. Then Herbert’s son from an bigamist marriage shows up and takes on Katherine for his share in Herbert’s will. JR’s focus is on destroying Katherine, leaving Donna to run EO, that is until he gets Katherine 1/2 of Herbert’s money and Katherine is arrested.

Jenna leaves pregnant and her younger brother, Lucas Wade, shows up.

JR suffers another blow, his “other” wife, a secret marriage based on H. L. Hunt, dies in an accident and his children by her are revealed, 20-30 year olds. And Sue Ellen is pregnant with a daughter.

Bobby’s love child, mid 20’s, shows up in Dallas, included in will with Christopher.

Any number of possibilities of interesting people and arrangements could have been made - all tied to the Ewing’s. People young enough to fight and lose and be pummeled by JR, to sleep around and scheme in their quest for money and power.

 

[Rove]

I didn't get a sense Bobby was tough upon his return post dream season. Because the majority of the audience was slapped across the face with how Bobby was returned from the dead it didn't matter how Bobby evolved. When we think about it Bobby should have carried on as usual as per his character traits when he waltzed into Pam's home before she drifted off to sleep.

Wouldn't it appear to be a bit silly if Bobby suddenly diverted away from his character just because the timeline was reset?