But if we HAD to re-cast Miss Ellie...

[Jock Ewing Fan]

A noble standard you should stand by.



Well, start one. I'd probably read it.

If you want the last word, fine. I have better things to do than respond to your BBG hero worship

 

[Spooky Owl!]

I have better things to do than respond to your BBG hero worship

You seem to engage in a lot of projection. But disagreement is what these topics are about. Not all "sarcasm" is personal.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

I think it's a misconception that fans only care about a select few characters. If Miss Ellie was so irrelevant, fans wouldn't be divided over her recasting all these years later.

Bringing back BBG may not have prevented the ratings slide, but at least Miss Ellie no longer felt like a completely different character like she did the previous year.

Reed's version of a ranch matriarch may be valid in its own right, but it was too contradictory to the characterization of Miss Ellie that we saw over the previous 7 seasons.

Of course, all of the characterizations were off during the last 3 years when the writing went to crap. But at its zenith, all of the core characters had a solid fanbase.

 

[Rove]

Dallas ratings declined sharply after season 8

Season 8 for me was the beginning of the end. In the opening episode Afton discovers Bobby shot, in JR's office. By episode 4 - I think - both Afton and Katherine have gone and two new faces, Mandy and Jamie make their appearance. Meanwhile it sticks out like a sore thumb Miss Ellie is not at Southfork or Dallas Memorial Hospital consoling her son. Of course we now know why. Producers were scrambling to fulfil the role of Miss Ellie.

 

[Monzo]

Is it known if there were any discussion behind the scenes about putting Miss Ellie in a coma rather than recasting her? Jessica could have broken out and pressed a pillow to Miss Ellie's face while she was sleeping, putting her into a coma similar to Angela on Falcon Crest. With Miss Ellie in a coma, there could have been a battle for Southfork similar to the battle for Ewing Oil after Jock's death. Would Clayton own Southfork or would it already belong to Bobby? Or would JR want to take it over to extract oil? Miss Ellie in a coma would have had some advantages, plot-wise.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Oh, that's a thought: Lady Jessica takes over Southfork in Ellie's absence as the latter convalesces in Takapa Regional Old Folks' Hospital.

Maybe Jessica's sentence was commuted by some on-the-take judge or parole board that the Long Arm of the Farlows bought out. (Or JR, for whatever reason).

 

[Sea - Boo! - Er]

Even Howard Keel recommended Olson for Miss Ellie. But executives aren't always interested in "making it work" or avoiding disasters. (Why else would someone believe Emma Samms would be a natural re-cast for Pamela Sue Martin when numerous other actresses could hit a more similar note??)

In both cases they went for a "name" rather than continuity. It worked in terms of generating publicity, but it's a short-term "sugar hit" at best.

Donna Reed acted in at least 8 western films, including "Backlash" (1956)
where she portrayed a ranch matriarch.
The suggestion that she had no familiarity with such a role simply isn't true

She was quoted as saying that she based the role on being the wife of an oil baron not as a ranch matriarch, a basic misapprehension on her part which probably doomed her portrayal before it even began.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

In both cases they went for a "name" rather than continuity. It worked in terms of generating publicity, but it's a short-term "sugar hit" at best.

She was quoted as saying that she based the role on being the wife of an oil baron not as a ranch matriarch, a basic misapprehension on her part which probably doomed her portrayal before it even began.

I remember reading the same words.
You make a good point. I would add that Jock Ewing was both an Oil Baron and a rancher, so Donna Reed really wasn't really that far removed from the character.
given the context.
Plus, Donna Reed dressed more like the wife of a wealthy man, and people in those circles (and others) do talk about how their peers dress.
And as a rancher's wife in "Backlash" Donna Reed did dress fashionably.
If DR had portrayed Miss Ellie as a BBG carbon copy, she would have been criticized as well.
There was no winning with some people.

In any case, I appreciate your perceptive, respectful response.

 

[Swellin]

Thread 'Recasting Miss Ellie' http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/recasting-miss-ellie.13417/
My suggestions.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

I would add that Jock Ewing was both an Oil Baron and a rancher, so Donna Reed really wasn't really that far removed from the character.
given the context.
Plus, Donna Reed dressed more like the wife of a wealthy man, and people in those circles

Yes, as David Paulsen pointed out, Reed looked more like the wife of a Texas multimillionaire. But she wasn't Miss Ellie.

If DR had portrayed Miss Ellie as a BBG carbon copy, she would have been criticized as well.

Undoubtedly. But that's the problem with re-casting core characters in primetime. It almost never works. (Daytime gets away with it much more easily).

 

[southfork88]

I understand that he was a secondary character, but why is there no a major discussion on the Digger Barnes character recasting in this Forum?

The two actors involved were like night and day, that is, totally different physically and different in their performance style.

In the HD episodes broadcast in Italy, at a rate of 5 episodes per day, the transition from the first to the second Digger occurred rapidly.

 

[Count Jockula]

Irrespective of who was the new Miss Ellie the role was established and would have obviously been compared to the original. I like @Snarky Orcale! 's idea about Nancy Olson in theory. In theory her casting would've have worked i.e. same mould as Barbara Bel Geddes but in practice probably not, just as much as the late Donna Reed. Poor Donna 'couldn't do right for doing wrong' and pancreatic cancer getting her in January 1986 was very sad.

You had the last laugh Donna and rightfully so, with your lawsuit. If the role wasn't taken by Donna Reed then Larry's mother Mary Martin or maybe even Nancy Olson you'd have had an opening credit slot occupied by them. Would you care to do your magic @Snarky Oracle! with either of these two women.

Ellie (Donna Reed) recently returned to Southfork Ranch with Clayton, after spending their honeymoon in Greece. The matriarch intends putting Jock's portrait back at Ewing Oil (the company he built). J.R. disagrees with his very different looking mama. Ellie's two sons are with her; in the living room of Southfork, where Jock's famous portrait is still very prevalent, (a scene from season 7; DVD-8, 1984 - '85):

Ellie: "J.R. I know how much you loved your daddy but keeping that painting up there is not going to bring him back. Only our memories can do that and we have a lifetime of those. Your daddy is in every shadow in this house, in every place he ever walked. Nobody can take away, the love we had for him."

J.R. looks glum.

Ellie: "His life with us is over and we have mourned him, long enough."

Bobby and J.R. look at their father's portrait.

Ellie lifts the portrait off the wall: "Taking this painting down is the right thing to do! I'm sure even Jock would agree. It's time for this family to start again."

The frame freezes on Jock's portrait; fade to black, the theme tune and the closing credits.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

I'm just not sure Donna Reed was a good choice. Unfortunately, I will never know because she didn't play the character in the fashion we had become accustomed to over 7 seasons..... She might have been fine had she done so? My thing is, the 1983-84 season was a huge success; they didn't need to do stunt casting at that point. Same thing with Priscilla Presley. Dallas was riding high in those days, and I don't see what the need was. At least Donna Reed was a good actress in her own right. How in the heck did they decide on Priscilla? Sorry; Another thread for another time.

Barbara 's return in season 9 was welcome, but to try to say that she didn't help the ratings... the dream season had potential at first, but the creative team quickly doused the flame. This had nothing to do with Barbara.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I'm just not sure Donna Reed was a good choice. Unfortunately, I will never know because she didn't play the character in the fashion we had become accustomed to over 7 seasons..... She might have been fine had she done so? My thing is, the 1983-84 season was a huge success; they didn't need to do stunt casting at that point. Same thing with Priscilla Presley. Dallas was riding high in those days, and I don't see what the need was. At least Donna Reed was a good actress in her own right. How in the heck did they decide on Priscilla? Sorry; Another thread for another time.

Barbara 's return in season 9 was welcome, but to try to say that she didn't help the ratings... the dream season had potential at first, but the creative team quickly doused the flame. This had nothing to do with Barbara.

Except that ratings did decline sharply in season 9 (from 20.97 to 18.8, see link)
,far more than from season 7 to season 8 (21.5 to 20.97),
and season 8 still had higher ratings than season 6 (20.97 to 20.5)
and never rose after that. That is an objective reality, not an opinion.
It was not BBG's fault, there were multiple problems,
but the point is that re-recasting Miss Ellie, in and of itself, wasn't going to save the show from its decline

Dallas (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I think it's a misconception that fans only care about a select few characters. If Miss Ellie was so irrelevant, fans wouldn't be divided over her recasting all these years later.

Bringing back BBG may not have prevented the ratings slide, but at least Miss Ellie no longer felt like a completely different character like she did the previous year.

Reed's version of a ranch matriarch may be valid in its own right, but it was too contradictory to the characterization of Miss Ellie that we saw over the previous 7 seasons.

Of course, all of the characterizations were off during the last 3 years when the writing went to crap. But at its zenith, all of the core characters had a solid fanbase.

In general, your points are valid. However, all characters didn't have the same numbers in their fanbase. Some were clearly more popular than others

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

In the portrait scene, ms. Reed seems to be thinking: "Who to the f... Is this decrepit mummy?".

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

I would add that Jock Ewing was both an Oil Baron and a rancher, so Donna Reed really wasn't really that far removed from the character.
given the context.
Plus, Donna Reed dressed more like the wife of a wealthy man, and people in those circles (and others) do talk about how their peers dress.

Not all ranchers and oil barons are the same, though. Jock was a roughneck. You can take the man out of the oil field, but you can't always take the oil field out of the man.

In contrast to Dynasty's Blake Carrington, Jock wasn't impressed by opulence or having a fashionable wife.

Clayton was more refined, but even he seemed to appreciate Miss Ellie's down to earth sensibilities.

In general, your points are valid. However, all characters didn't have the same numbers in their fanbase. Some were clearly more popular than others

That's certainly true, but Miss Ellie was popular enough that her recasting was controversial.

 

[Monzo]

While Nancy Olsen failed to convince as a matriarch in Paper Doll, there were three other actresses I liked as female heads of families in 80s soaps: Jean Simmons and Inga Swenson in North & South and Barbara Rush in Flamingo Road. Can you imagine any of them as a recast of Miss Ellie?

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

I understand that he was a secondary character, but why is there no a major discussion on the Digger Barnes character recasting in this Forum?

The two actors involved were like night and day, that is, totally different physically and different in their performance style.

In the HD episodes broadcast in Italy, at a rate of 5 episodes per day, the transition from the first to the second Digger occurred rapidly.

I think that's because of Digger's limited appearances. I preferred David Wayne in the role, but he only appeared in 4 episodes. As for Kenan Wynn, he was in 10 episodes.

And while they were certainly quite different from each other, I think Wynn managed to maintain the essence of the character without being a carbon copy. Wynn's Digger was still a slovenly, bitter alcoholic, although his delivery was a bit cartoony at times. Still, the character's basic traits remained intact. That wasn't the case for Reed's Miss Ellie.

 

[southfork88]

I think that's because of Digger's limited appearances. I preferred David Wayne in the role, but he only appeared in 4 episodes. As for Kenan Wynn, he was in 10 episodes.

And while they were certainly quite different from each other, I think Wynn managed to maintain the essence of the character without being a carbon copy. Wynn's Digger was still a slovenly, bitter alcoholic, although his delivery was a bit cartoony at times. Still, the character's basic traits remained intact. That wasn't the case for Reed's Miss Ellie.

Maybe a similar last name (Wayne vs. Wynn) may helped the two Diggers a little, while Bel Geddes is very different from the surname Reed.
Obviously I'm joking.