LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
I'll take your word for it.
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Dallas vs Dynasty
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Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Some people have differing opinions and differing tastes.
Others have prejudices.
DYNASTY's problem was that it betrayed its own potential, not that it was in "competition" with DALLAS.
Others have prejudices.
DYNASTY's problem was that it betrayed its own potential, not that it was in "competition" with DALLAS.
LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
But the media had us believe they were in competition. They were always compared.
I could never understand that here as they were both aired on the same channel so viewing figures against each other shouldn't have been a thing.
Willie Oleson
Telly Talk Schemer
Of course it wasn't.
Then what is it that makes some DALLAS fans so insecure?
Looking at the different fanbases: Falcon Crest fans are the happiest, Knots fans are the grumpiest, The Colbys fans are the luckiest, Dallas fans are the most aggressive and Dynasty fans are the most rational (with love and respect for all the other soaps).
Just an observation.
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
What makes KL fans the grumpiest?
LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
Speak for yourself. Why would we be when our soap was THE original, best and most emulated?
Looking where?
Dallas fans are the most aggressive?
Just an observation you say?
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Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
not entirely sure, but as Prince noted, one needn’t watch DYNASTY to have an attitude..
maybe DALLAS fans are insecure because we just have.. a Hank Williams Jr. rejection?
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Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
It's only a certain sub-group of DALLAS fans.
I need to reconstruct my "Sue Ellen versus Jesus" and "The Lout and Miss Shepard" threads.
They're not sure how to reconcile Bobby's death and resurrection and still have it make sense.
DallasFanForever
Telly Talk Supreme
I for one always kind of felt the shows were in competition with one another. Back then at one point you really couldn’t hear one mentioned without mentioning the other. Wasn’t Dynasty quite often referred to as “Dallas with more glitz and glamour?” TV Guide certainly depicted it as being a competition many times. Dallas itself ended up looking much more Dynasty-esque in the Dream Season, not to mention Dynasty winning the ratings war in the 1984-85 season (albeit on a technicality but they won it nonetheless). The shows were always in direct competition with one another. Even their two respective top stars were always being compared as soap villains.
Willie Oleson
Telly Talk Schemer
It's not that I disagree with you because I think Dallas was the best Dallas.
But what I don't understand is why is this has to be acknowledged repeatedly, like the magic mirror who has to set the queen's mind at ease.
And why this needs to be done at the expense of other soaps, well mostly Dynasty and its actors.
Of course, that's what this thread is all about but I think it has, perhaps unintentionally, brought some personal issues to the surface.
As it were.
They seem impossible to please even though Knots never reached the depths of SoapHell like the other soaps did (except for The Colbys, but they didn't get enough time to show any flaws).
Perhaps it wasn't the best candidate for a Reunion Movie but that's a minor oversight in the grand scheme of things.
LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
I never knew Sue Ellen and Alexis had the same hairdresser
And no, it's no competition who wore it the best.
And no, it's no competition who wore it the best.
Yes please!
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
It seemed that Dynasty was specifically marketed as competition for Dallas. Dallas was on top and "Watch out, Texans, there are new oil barons in town" was part of Dynasty's campaign, even if it wasn't always explicit. The producers of Dallas started to worry and responded by becoming more glitzy. Even Knots Landing, which in many respects, acted as if (and it actually was) above such superficiality, upped the glamor after season 4. It became a bit of a thing in conversations that if someone mentioned either of the two, someone would invariably respond, "I like______better." It's not surprising even today and on this forum that would still be a mindset to a degree.
As a true blue KL fan, the reunion movie made me very grumpy because KL had always set the bar so high and that movie was a big disappointment. As I watched it I kept thinking of KL storylines that were similar but done so much better. I couldn't enjoy it for what it was because I was focusing on what it could be. That may be more of a "me" thing than the show.
Getting back to Dallas vs Dynasty, my favorite Dallas season is season 6 with the battle for Ewing Oil. That season is on Knots level. I do like season 5 especially toward the end with baby Christopher showing up and all that ensued because of his existence. However, I was watching that season concurrently with Dynasty season 2, and I have to say that if the debate over which show is the best was restricted to Dynasty season 2 and Dallas season 5, Dynasty would win. Dallas season 5 could be a bit boring at times. Dynasty seasin 2 had Alexis and Krystle at their best, individually and as "yin and yang" enemies. Fallon and Claudia were still compelling and interesting, Al Corley was in the cast, Blake and Jeff were not completely one dimensional yet I liked Nick Toscani as a villian, and the dialogue was still fun and not as nonsensical as it would become. Even Joseph had wonderful scenes with Alexis.
Dallas wins overall because it stayed good much longer than Dynasty. However, if Dynasty stayed at season 2 level, it would have given the Ewings a real run for their oil soaked money. On the other hand, if Dallas was always at season 6 level it would make the Ewings, as Miss Ellie said, "unbeatable."
So now @Just Snowillie, what do you think makes Falcon Crest fans the happiest? I would think they might be the most bitter, because the show was so much fun to watch in its first few seasons and then fell harder than an overworked, disillusioned department store Santa falling off a bar stool after having too much Falcon Crest wine.
As a true blue KL fan, the reunion movie made me very grumpy because KL had always set the bar so high and that movie was a big disappointment. As I watched it I kept thinking of KL storylines that were similar but done so much better. I couldn't enjoy it for what it was because I was focusing on what it could be. That may be more of a "me" thing than the show.
Getting back to Dallas vs Dynasty, my favorite Dallas season is season 6 with the battle for Ewing Oil. That season is on Knots level. I do like season 5 especially toward the end with baby Christopher showing up and all that ensued because of his existence. However, I was watching that season concurrently with Dynasty season 2, and I have to say that if the debate over which show is the best was restricted to Dynasty season 2 and Dallas season 5, Dynasty would win. Dallas season 5 could be a bit boring at times. Dynasty seasin 2 had Alexis and Krystle at their best, individually and as "yin and yang" enemies. Fallon and Claudia were still compelling and interesting, Al Corley was in the cast, Blake and Jeff were not completely one dimensional yet I liked Nick Toscani as a villian, and the dialogue was still fun and not as nonsensical as it would become. Even Joseph had wonderful scenes with Alexis.
Dallas wins overall because it stayed good much longer than Dynasty. However, if Dynasty stayed at season 2 level, it would have given the Ewings a real run for their oil soaked money. On the other hand, if Dallas was always at season 6 level it would make the Ewings, as Miss Ellie said, "unbeatable."
So now @Just Snowillie, what do you think makes Falcon Crest fans the happiest? I would think they might be the most bitter, because the show was so much fun to watch in its first few seasons and then fell harder than an overworked, disillusioned department store Santa falling off a bar stool after having too much Falcon Crest wine.
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Dallas is much better in terms of engaging family drama. Dynasty lost so much of that after its first 2-3 seasons, in the sense that it was hard to emotionally invest yourself in the storylines in the way that you could with Dallas or Knots Landing, although Dynasty always remained captivating in some way.
I will say though, that Blake Carrington in Season 1 of Dynasty is a nastier villain than even J.R. Ewing. He has greater contempt for those who he sees as "weak" (far greater than J.R. or Jock towards Gary), is a bigot in a way that no Ewing family member is, and the Carrington family dynamic has largely been devoured by capitalism. In contrast, the Ewing family dynamic is very strong and rooted in old fashioned Southworth roots of the Democratic solid south, which is rooted in the land and old money, which both compliments and contrasts with Jock Ewing and Ewing Oil with its new money.
I will say though, that Blake Carrington in Season 1 of Dynasty is a nastier villain than even J.R. Ewing. He has greater contempt for those who he sees as "weak" (far greater than J.R. or Jock towards Gary), is a bigot in a way that no Ewing family member is, and the Carrington family dynamic has largely been devoured by capitalism. In contrast, the Ewing family dynamic is very strong and rooted in old fashioned Southworth roots of the Democratic solid south, which is rooted in the land and old money, which both compliments and contrasts with Jock Ewing and Ewing Oil with its new money.
DallasFanForever
Telly Talk Supreme
This!
Agree with everything you said here wholeheartedly, especially that last sentence. No matter how far Dynasty might have strayed from its original greatness, it always remained compelling and entertaining for me.
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
hm, only a sneaky DYNASTY fan looking to trigger insecure DALLAS fans on a DALLAS board would claim there was no competition there!
(Jock had the longest car, anyway)
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
hm, only a sneaky DYNASTY fan looking to trigger insecure DALLAS fans on a DALLAS board would claim there was no competition there!
(Jock had the longest car, anyway)
It's only the hardest hardcore Swellin fans, who seem to think in terms of status and maintaining it. They don't even blame JR much for his philandering as he's the cash cow. They blame his grasping mistresses (and even the actresses who played them).
At least, that's how it used to be.
DYNASTY's Seasons 1, 2 and 9 were as good as anything DALLAS ever did. And DALLAS' Seasons 3, 6, 7 and 10 (despite the "Bobby, I just had a terrible 31 episode dream" scene which opened it) were as good as anything the genre ever gave us.
FALCON CREST Seasons 1, 2 and 3 were a terrific, gently gothic distraction. And KNOTS almost never stumbled, offering a consistent, more layered character-based narrative than virtually any show ever.
All four shows were great when they were great. Uncommonly painful when they lost their way.
"Good morning. None of that ever happened."
LMLDallas78
Telly Talk Enthusiast
Well as one of those hard hard-core Sue Ellen fans (many before me here I know)It's only the hardest hardcore Swellin fans, who seem to think in terms of status and maintaining it. They don't even blame JR much for his philandering as he's the cash cow. They blame his grasping mistresses (and even the actresses who played them).
At least, that's how it used to be.
DYNASTY's Seasons 1, 2 and 9 were as good as anything DALLAS ever did. And DALLAS' Seasons 3, 6, 7 and 10 (despite the "Bobby, I just had a terrible 31 episode dream" scene which opened it) were as good as anything the genre ever gave us.
FALCON CREST Seasons 1, 2 and 3 were a terrific, gently gothic distraction. And KNOTS almost never stumbled, offering a consistent, more layered character-based narrative than virtually any show ever.
All four shows were great when they were great. Uncommonly painful when they lost their way.
"Good morning. None of that ever happened."
I believe differently than you do.
I do blame JR for what he was like and how he treated his wife and loved Sue Ellen standing up to him and cheating on him.
I hated his other conquests when they set Sue Ellen up or thought they could replace her. Yes he was the cash cow as you put it, but that was Sue Ellen's conditioning to marry for money and position and not love.
I disliked the actresses who played JR's other women when I believed their acting was poor.
But JR was the one we loved to hate in all aspects of his life. It was easier to forgive him than others. That's what Dallas became isn't it?
When JR was without Sue Ellen he was much less. Their relationship however turbulent was compelling and exciting.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
One way of distinguishing the two series' business dynamics is that while DALLAS focused obsessively on oil (with a little bit of cattle ranching) and a privately-owned family company called Ewing Oil, DYNASTY instead focused (barely) on oil, too, and a publicly-owned even richer company known as Denver-Carrington, as well as ColbyCo which was richer still.
To set itself apart, usually mumbling about Denver-Carrington's shale oil extraction process whenever they decided the program needed some business chatter, DYNASTY should have focused more on Blake's or Alexis' military hardware manufacturing divisions, with any oil references here-and-there only in the background. (Didn't THE COLBYS do a little more of that?) Many major oil companies have such military armament divisions, and that could have provided DYNASTY a slightly different political aspect to the storylines.
Not that DYNASTY was ever much interested in politics, eschewing it entirely even during their Season 8 gubernatorial race. But Blake could, after the apocalypse that supposedly was the Moldavian massacre aftermath -- and the reasons for it, choose to divest himself of his military hardware division, selling it off, with much derision from Adam and Jason as a result... But DYNASTY was just never written that way. The only suggestion I can recall to Blake's company generating and selling weapons is in the pilot.
Did the Ewings ever have their toes, as far as we ever heard, in military contracting? One assumes Ewing Oil was less diversified that the DYNASTY corporations, but how much less?
To set itself apart, usually mumbling about Denver-Carrington's shale oil extraction process whenever they decided the program needed some business chatter, DYNASTY should have focused more on Blake's or Alexis' military hardware manufacturing divisions, with any oil references here-and-there only in the background. (Didn't THE COLBYS do a little more of that?) Many major oil companies have such military armament divisions, and that could have provided DYNASTY a slightly different political aspect to the storylines.
Not that DYNASTY was ever much interested in politics, eschewing it entirely even during their Season 8 gubernatorial race. But Blake could, after the apocalypse that supposedly was the Moldavian massacre aftermath -- and the reasons for it, choose to divest himself of his military hardware division, selling it off, with much derision from Adam and Jason as a result... But DYNASTY was just never written that way. The only suggestion I can recall to Blake's company generating and selling weapons is in the pilot.
Did the Ewings ever have their toes, as far as we ever heard, in military contracting? One assumes Ewing Oil was less diversified that the DYNASTY corporations, but how much less?
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Dallas was also doggedly consistent in terms of cast, pace and tone, for the most part (until the last few seasons). I’ve been rewatching Dynasty on Pluto, and it‘s all over the place. They were constantly bringing in new family members, recasting, and losing main characters. There’s relatively little consistency in terms of story across seasons. There are several seasons where you can tell they did a midseason reset, because they must have felt that whatever happened earlier in the season wasn’t working.
And the Dallas characters, for the most part, are better than those on Dynasty. Blake Carrington was originally conceived as a powerful, charismatic patriarch with sex appeal. But after they fired George Peppard and replaced him with John Forsythe, he wound up as a hot-tempered old grandpa. Why anyone would want to hang around him is beyone me. And the Alexis character becomes increasingly shrill as the series wears on, due to her obsession with the old goat. Not to mention the humorless Steven recast, the weird Fallon and Amanda recasts, and the breathy, one-note Adam.
And the Dallas characters, for the most part, are better than those on Dynasty. Blake Carrington was originally conceived as a powerful, charismatic patriarch with sex appeal. But after they fired George Peppard and replaced him with John Forsythe, he wound up as a hot-tempered old grandpa. Why anyone would want to hang around him is beyone me. And the Alexis character becomes increasingly shrill as the series wears on, due to her obsession with the old goat. Not to mention the humorless Steven recast, the weird Fallon and Amanda recasts, and the breathy, one-note Adam.
LoganRhinewood
Telly Talk Member
Yeah the constant additions to the cast (often reflected in the increasingly long opening credits) are one big reason why Dynasty will never be my fave. You can barely keep track of what's going on while on Dallas you usually know who everyone is. Dallas feels more linear somehow while Dynasty seems to have a constant "we throw things at walls and see what sticks" feel to it.