Did Donna Reed's Miss Ellie have any redeeming features?

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I don't think that anyone has ever argued that Donna Reed didn't act the part well, but her interpretation of the character was based on a false premise.

Good observation. I might have said a flawed premise, though

 

[LMLDallas78]

"dear"

This was used by Sue Ellen in the early episodes and spoken with a patronising, bitchy tone which was soon dropped.

Much more suited to Donna Reed without the bitchy tone.

"Oh, that poor dear girl...!" or some such nonsense?

This was about Jenna so maybe She thought it was fitting.

Barbara Miss Ellie did refer to Sue Ellen as "that girl" on a couple of occasions.

"From the day you brought that girl into this house".

"I don't want you persecuting that girl".

But She said it with fire and meaning in her voice.

Adding "dear" for Donna Miss Ellie was simply not Miss Ellie.


This is a reply to a post very early in this thread, but you all know I love my quotes!
It goes to show that it wasn't all about dress sense, it was about everything, from the language used, how that language was delivered to demeanor and presence.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I've just remembered;

Barbara Miss Ellie also called Sue Ellen "dear" when she visited her in the Sanitarium.

"Dear, I do know a little of your life with JR".
She wanted Sue Ellen to open up and talk to her.

As she leaves Miss Ellie says, "Bye bye Dear". And they kiss each other on the lips!

 

[DallasFanForever]

Barbara Miss Ellie also called Sue Ellen "dear" when she visited her in the Sanitarium.

"Dear, I do know a little of your life with JR".
She wanted Sue Ellen to open up and talk to her.

As she leaves Miss Ellie says, "Bye bye Dear"

“Dear, you know you were so drunk last night when you got behind that wheel that you ended up hitting a poor deer, oh dear!”

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

“Dear, you know you were so drunk last night when you got behind that wheel that you ended up hitting a poor deer, oh dear!”

Can we have venison steaks for dinner tonight then?

 

[LMLDallas78]

I never started this dear stuff!!
Did I?

Oh well if I did it's great Love it!

It was suggested early on in the thread that Barbara Miss Ellie wouldn't use it, but she did, so Donna Miss Ellie saying it was perfectly in keeping dear

 

[DallasFanForever]

It was suggested early on in the thread that Barbara Miss Ellie wouldn't use it, but she did, so Donna Miss Ellie saying it was perfectly in keeping dear

I didn’t realize BBG had said it that much but it definitely felt like Donna Reed’s Miss Ellie used it a lot more in retrospect.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I'm sure you've all seen it before and it's probably been debated about on here but it's new to me, I'm late catching up as usual.

Years ago there was a British TV presenter who used to track down and chase stars from old TV shows and called it "bring back....... "and the name of the show. So there was a Bring back Dallas with Bring back Miss Ellie.

The presenter spoke to Larry Hagman and Susan Howard regarding the two Miss Ellie's and treatment of Donna Reed. From Larry's own mouth he says Barbara wanted more money and had a manager that thought she had more clout than she did. Apparently BBG's request for more money was refused so she left.

Larry says he spoke to BBG afterwards and said why hadn't she gone to him as he had all the clout and could've sorted it.

Susan speaks fondly of Donna Reed and how Larry didn't like her taking on the role of Miss Ellie and that she felt unaccepted by others. Her words, "You know when you feel welcome in someone's home" and Donna didn't.

I was under the impression BBG left solely due to health issues which the viewers were led to believe and is mentioned on the video.

Larry talks about DR passing soon after being on Dallas and casually says, "that was bad news, but that's showbiz". I was shocked by Larry's response here. Maybe edited? I hope so.

Donna Reed's son also spoke to explain how she felt of her treatment and was under the impression the role was hers for good.


Lovely scene where he chases Linda Gray on a bike who's clearly taken aback by the presenter's approach.
He was known for being a bit crazy, but was a big name back in his days of presenting.

 

[Mustard]

Larry talks about DR passing soon after being on Dallas and casually says, "that was bad news, but that's showbiz". I was shocked by Larry's response here. Maybe edited? I hope so.

Larry channeling his inner J.R. there.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I'm sure you've all seen it before and it's probably been debated about on here but it's new to me, I'm late catching up as usual.

Years ago there was a British TV presenter who used to track down and chase stars from old TV shows and called it "bring back....... "and the name of the show. So there was a Bring back Dallas with Bring back Miss Ellie.

The presenter spoke to Larry Hagman and Susan Howard regarding the two Miss Ellie's and treatment of Donna Reed. From Larry's own mouth he says Barbara wanted more money and had a manager that thought she had more clout than she did. Apparently BBG's request for more money was refused so she left.

Larry says he spoke to BBG afterwards and said why hadn't she gone to him as he had all the clout and could've sorted it.

Susan speaks fondly of Donna Reed and how Larry didn't like her taking on the role of Miss Ellie and that she felt unaccepted by others. Her words, "You know when you feel welcome in someone's home" and Donna didn't.

I was under the impression BBG left solely due to health issues which the viewers were led to believe and is mentioned on the video.

Larry talks about DR passing soon after being on Dallas and casually says, "that was bad news, but that's showbiz". I was shocked by Larry's response here. Maybe edited? I hope so.

Donna Reed's son also spoke to explain how she felt of her treatment and was under the impression the role was hers for good.


Lovely scene where he chases Linda Gray on a bike who's clearly taken aback by the presenter's approach.
He was known for being a bit crazy, but was a big name back in his days of presenting.

BBG was in the uncomfortable position of having to re-negotiate her contract at the same time she was requesting a reduced workweek (apparently, a temporary one, until she'd fully recovered from the heart surgery, she'd had a year before).

Lorimar executives apparently balked and threatened to bring in a new actress. BBG's agent seemed to think it was a ploy, so once Barbara realized they were serious, she got on the phone herself and tried to fix it. But it was too late -- a new actress had been hired.

So Bel Geddes was, in fact, fired.

Reportedly, Katzman loved the dithery, unthreatening Donna Reed. But Katzman and Paulsen quickly realized that Reed had been miscast. And you see that they quickly began cutting back her scenes almost immediately, because they weren't working. But there must have been miscommunication somewhere at Lorimar, because someone then extended Reed's contract from 1 year to 3 years.

Producers quietly approached Bel Geddes near the end of that season, presumably gave her the raise she'd requested, and now that another year had passed, BBG had recovered enough to commit to a full workload.

Donna Reed found out about her own firing on an airport tarmac in France. She sued, and although she likely would have lost (depending on the judge) Lorimar paid her a settlement to get the story out of the press.

Reed said that "she wasn't privy to" the idea that she'd been brought in as a temporary replacement for Miss Ellie, and I'm sure she wasn't, and that wasn't the original plan. Her assertions that Larry wasn't very nice to her are utterly believable (as were Dack Rambo's) because he wanted her gone. Her claims that she was deliberately given "monster lighting," because the cinematographer was told to by the producers, is nowhere in evidence.

Later, after Reed and her surviving relatives began making resentful comments about Barbara, the executives -- trying to avoid insulting Reed as she was already seen as their victim -- eventually gently piled on BBG and insisted that the former queen of Broadway had left DALLAS in a snooty misstep and then called and demanded her role back after "jealously watching another actress" in her part of Miss Ellie (even though Barbara hadn't watched the show that season, requesting tapes of it so she could catch up on the action before returning).

Both actresses were victimized. But Barbara Bel Geddes was the only participant amongst them who handled the situation with any class. So naturally they ultimately handed off all the blame to her.

I know all this has been said before, but, sheesh..!

It was goddamned self-destructive on the part of the executives -- but then what else is new? But the re-casting of the Emmy-winning matriarch of the biggest TV show on planet earth was the first sign that something was wrong behind the camera at DALLAS, and it was never really corrected for the next seven years.

 

[Crimson]

the re-casting of the Emmy-winning matriarch of the biggest TV show on planet earth was the first sign that something was wrong behind the camera at DALLAS, and it was never really corrected for the next seven years.

Quite true. Until this point, DALLAS was a remarkably sure footed show; some things to quibble about, of course, but nothing deeply flawed. From this point on, there's increasingly more wrong than right with the show.

When it comes to Bel Geddes vs Reed comparison, I always think it was well covered by TV critic Michael McWilliams in the book TV SIRENS (1987).

Donna Reed's life ended on a particularly sad note. Dumped from DALLAS just before her death, she sued the producers, seeming like an embittered and desolated TV diva. Public sympathy with her (deservedly), but one cruel fact remained: the role of Miss Ellie belongs to Barbara Bel Geddes. A respected and pampered Broadway Baby, Bel Geddes strikes the perfect balance between patrician snootiness and tough-minded naturalism. She looks like a queen of the Old-New South -- you could drive a tractor through the creases in her face. But Reed played the part like a PTA chairwoman from Orange County. Her unctuous dignity embalmed her later work ...

 

[LMLDallas78]

Thanks for all the info here which I didn't know went on behind the scenes. I just assumed it was due to BBG's health and that DR stepped in until BBG could return.

I've often said Donna was treated very cruelly even though I wasn't a fan of her Miss Ellie.

What struck me is hearing those words actually come from Larry's own mouth. He comes across as so cock sure of himself. Although I've seen many interviews and he appears confident in his usual jokey way, this was different. He made out he had all the clout in the world and could sort absolutely anything and didn't exactly speak fondly of Donna Reed.

That's the power he commanded and was given I suppose. Those (or that) producer(s) must have been terrified of losing him.

I recall watching the programme when it aired, but I don't remember the Miss Ellie bit at all and I was shocked to hear it, not just read it.

 

[Mustard]

Bel Geddes strikes the perfect balance between patrician snootiness and tough-minded naturalism. She looks like a queen of the Old-New South -- you could drive a tractor through the creases in her face. But Reed played the part like a PTA chairwoman from Orange County.

This part is particularly true. Barbara just nailed the part of Miss Ellie down to a tee in terms of Miss Ellie's family background and how that affects her outlook on life. She wasn't merely an oil baron's wife. The people who complain about Miss Ellie's dress sense don't understand what Barbara was doing, and don't understand how Barbara was making Miss Ellie a very strong unique character with her roots in the Texas land first and foremost, which was then combined with her being the wife of a big oil baron but never losing her ranching roots or leaving them behind in terms of her life outlook. That attitude, conflict and compromise between Southworth-Ewing is a huge part of what made the conflicts inside and outside the Ewing family work so well, i.e. what made Dallas tick as a series for years on end along with the Barnes-Ewing feud.

With Donna Reed, suddenly Miss Ellie's ranching past is just a past heritage, long distant. This Miss Ellie is much more a typical oil baron's wife. But where's the conflict, tension, teasing etc. inside the Ewing family once this happens? It's not there, there's much less emotion from Miss Ellie that stems not from Donna Reed's abilities as an actress, but how Donna viewed the character of Miss Ellie, a deep contrast to how Barbara Bel Geddes viewed Miss Ellie. Barbara understood the very heart of the Miss Ellie character, and brought her to life in a huge way.

Thanks for all the info here which I didn't know went on behind the scenes. I just assumed it was due to BBG's health and that DR stepped in until BBG could return.

I've often said Donna was treated very cruelly even though I wasn't a fan of her Miss Ellie.

What struck me is hearing those words actually come from Larry's own mouth. He comes across as so cock sure of himself. Although I've seen many interviews and he appears confident in his usual jokey way, this was different. He made out he had all the clout in the world and could sort absolutely anything and didn't exactly speak fondly of Donna Reed.

That's the power he commanded and was given I suppose. Those (or that) producer(s) must have been terrified of losing him.

I recall watching the programme when it aired, but I don't remember the Miss Ellie bit at all and I was shocked to hear it, not just read it.

All the actors on Dallas were behind Larry Hagman in 1980 on those contract negotiations. Larry made sure that he was out of the US on 21 March 1980, when the episode where J.R. was shot aired in the US on CBS, by going to Britain. Larry said that this had the bosses chasing him all over the place, instead of him being put under pressure that would have happened had he been in the US at the time. Larry reasoned that Dallas couldn't carry on without J.R. Ewing at that point, and most likely not without Larry Hagman in the role of J.R. Ewing.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Larry reasoned that Dallas couldn't carry on without J.R. Ewing at that point,

That's most probably true, but something we'll never know now.
It's so easy to say with hindsight that Dallas at that time couldn't lose JR, but that's mostly due to the phenomenon who shot JR? Maybe not necessarily due to who JR was, at least then anyway.

Of course I'm of the popular opinion that no one could have ever played that role like Larry did. But in those early days? Well again, something we'll never know.

 

[Seaviewer]

The possibility that Robert Culp could emerge from under the bandages was canvassed at the time. Like Donna Reed's casting and Bobby's return, it seemed an exciting prospect in theory but I suppose would have ended up being just as disappointing.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

As I indicated in another, post, ratings indicate that whoever played Miss Ellie had an insignificant impact on
ratings.
Yes, BBG may have had more impact on storylines,and the audience's opinion, but in general,
people were watching for JR, Bobby, Sue Ellen and Pam
Jim Davis and BBG together were impactful, but I always thought BBG was not written that well after
Jim Davis passed.

And past season 12, I don't know that anything would have worked, given the writing and the casting,
and the lack of a more creative approach. It seemed that storylines were recycled (IE battle for Ewing Oil simply took other forms)

A suggestion. If Steve Forrest was to be written out, what if he departs saving JR from a Calhoun action
and with his final breath he apologizes to JR for being too hard on him while Bobby comes back with a nurse from abroad
who verifies everything "Wes" says.

 

[Mustard]

That's most probably true, but something we'll never know now.
It's so easy to say with hindsight that Dallas at that time couldn't lose JR, but that's mostly due to the phenomenon who shot JR? Maybe not necessarily due to who JR was, at least then anyway.

Of course I'm of the popular opinion that no one could have ever played that role like Larry did. But in those early days? Well again, something we'll never know.

Well, we do know. Larry got what he wanted. From then on, he had a major say in Dallas behind the scenes as well as in front of the camera. For a time, other actors on the show benefitted because of it, but in the later years, as the show's quality declined then Larry's salary from things like being an executive producer and the fee for appearing in each episode of Dallas just got far too bloated.

In addition to how good he was as J.R. Ewing, I do think Larry was a very good director as well, certainly the best of the actors who directed on the series. He captured the big moments in the episodes that he directed very well.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I do think Larry was a very good director as well,

Yes he was. His first episode he directed on Dallas was Mother of the Year and he certainly had a good eye for detail and for capturing the little things in every scene. It's among my favourite episodes. He presents Linda brilliantly here and she makes the most of it.

Also great directing when the Asian Wells hit and a tiny detail when Sue Ellen storms into DR Elby's office and he just says, "Bad day?"

Larry certainly earned that power he was given because what he gave to Dallas is what made Dallas the massive success it was.

I always loved watching him being interviewed even though he could still do a good put down albeit in jest. Just didn't like how he was in the interview regarding Donna Reed.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

The possibility that Robert Culp could emerge from under the bandages was canvassed at the time. Like Donna Reed's casting and Bobby's return, it seemed an exciting prospect in theory but I suppose would have ended up being just as disappointing.

Can't imagine anyone other than Larry Hagman, but Robert Culp would have been a good choice for a recast, if one was necessary

 

[DallasFanForever]

Larry reasoned that Dallas couldn't carry on without J.R. Ewing at that point, and most likely not without Larry Hagman in the role of J.R. Ewing.

He reasoned correctly in my opinion