Doris Day: The Perpetual Girl-Next-Door

[Snarky Oracle!]

And did Doris Day herself cause the Manson murders in 1969??

It's established that Charles Manson had rock star aspirations, and hoped Brian Wilson or Terry Melcher (Day's son, who was dating Candace Bergen) would help. The Beach Boys then appropriated a song by Charlie, changed the title and altered the lyrics, placed it on the B-side of a single, and even denied Manson co-writing credit. If true, Manson was furious, previously unaware of how Hollywood would rob you blind.

Apparently, Melcher had much closer ties to Charlie and his "family" than has been reported or that came out in the trial. (Neil Young actually thought Manson had a bit of talent, perhaps in the way Hitler could sketch a mean bucolic barn). Manson was more tied in to Hollywood than once believed, even supplying girls to industry executives. (So the Helter Skelter race war explanation was a convenient way to help minimize Charlie's industry connections). And Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Manson, was a corrupt, crazed, violent nutjob in his own right.



Melcher, who was supposedly more afraid of his own maid than Charlie (Melcher and Bergen moved out of the doomed Cielo Drive homicide house to escape the maid, rather ignite her ire by firing her) told Manson he would get him a recording contract with his mother's label -- until Doris Day herself said to Charlie's face upon meeting him: "you're out of your mind if you think I'm going to produce an effing record for you!"

And that's apparently what set Manson off --- that, and a little LSD Manson's intelligence handler may have been providing him. Seriously.

It sounds like the girl next door was lucky to be just next door.

But, hey... que sera, sera... Am I right?

Folks should really read Tom O'Neill's 2019 book 'Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties'.




And Roman Polanski was allegedly a major perv that liked to insult his wife and film her getting raped by his friends.

This is the kind of gossipy stuff DYNASTY should have hinted at along its fringes, instead of the women bellowing "why don't you share your pain with me??" while the men call them "you slut!" in return.


_____________

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

And did Doris Day herself cause the Manson murders in 1969??

It's established that Charles Manson had rock star aspirations, and hoped Brian Wilson or Terry Melcher (Day's son, who was dating Candace Bergen) would help. The Beach Boys then appropriated a song by Charlie, changed the title and altered the lyrics, placed it on the B-side of a single, and even denied Manson co-writing credit. If true, Manson was furious, previously unaware of how Hollywood would rob you blind.

Apparently, Melcher had much closer ties to Charlie and his "family" than has been reported or that came out in the trial. (Neil Young actually thought Manson had a bit of talent, perhaps in the way Hitler could sketch a mean bucolic barn). Manson was more tied in to Hollywood than once believed, even supplying girls to industry executives. (So the Helter Skelter race war explanation was a convenient way to help minimize Charlie's industry connections). And Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Manson, was a corrupt, crazed, violent nutjob in his own right.

Melcher, who was supposedly more afraid of his own maid than Charlie (Melcher and Bergen moved out of the doomed Cielo Drive homicide house to escape the maid, rather ignite her ire by firing her) told Manson he would get him a recording contract with his mother's label -- until Doris Day herself said to Charlie's face upon meeting him: "you're out of your mind if you think I'm going to produce an effing record for you!"

And that's apparently what set Manson off --- that, and a little LSD Manson's intelligence handler may have been providing him. Seriously.

It sounds like the girl next door was lucky to be just next door.

But, hey... que sera, sera... Am I right?

Folks should really read Tom O'Neill's 2019 book 'Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties'.


View attachment 41794

And Roman Polanski was allegedly a major perv that liked to insult his wife and film her getting raped by his friends.

This is the kind of gossipy stuff DYNASTY should have hinted at along its fringes, instead of the women bellowing "why don't you share your pain with me??" while the men call them "you slut!" in return.


_____________

Have those things been verified?
I know about Terry Melcher and the Beach Boys, but I am unclear if the rest is fact or fiction

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Have those things been verified?
I know about Terry Melcher and the Beach Boys, but I am unclear if the rest is fact or fiction

Apparently, Bugliosi's 'Helter Skelter' is largely fiction. If you're interest, read 2019's "Chaos" (as I mentioned above); it's well-documented -- and it goes everywhere!

 

[ginnyfan]

Doris actually talked to Charlie???

Even if she didn't, just the fact that Hollywood's sunshine girl next door, was somehow connected to all of this is so bizarre.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I’m not sure what to believe with this story and all these connections but I do know that the official story as we’ve been told never quite added up for me. I think there was a lot more to Manson and these connections than we were led to believe.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I’m not sure what to believe with this story and all these connections but I do know that the official story as we’ve been told never quite added up for me. I think there was a lot more to Manson and these connections than we were led to believe.

Read Tom O'Neill's 'Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties'. It's kind of fascinating.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Apparently, Bugliosi's 'Helter Skelter' is largely fiction. If you're interest, read 2019's "Chaos" (as I mentioned above); it's well-documented -- and it goes everywhere!

I read Helter Skelter years ago. It is written by VB from the perspective of the prosecuting attorney, which is exactly whathe was.
The book contains descriptions of the trial, witness testimony, crimes, considerable background on the people involved, accounts of life on the Spahn ranch, etc.
It would be inaccurate to call it largely fiction.
I read reviews of 2019 "Chaos" . It appears to contain a lot of info, and presents some alternative theories. It is probably worth a read, but
it is not credible just because it claims to be credible. VB's theory of the motivations for the crime may or may not be flawed, but that doesn't automatically
make the theories espoused by Chaos to be correct ones.
Some of the reviews conclude that while the alternative theories presented by Chaos may have merit, the author
falls short in supporting them

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I read Helter Skelter years ago. It is written by VB from the perspective of the prosecuting attorney, which is exactly whathe was.
The book contains descriptions of the trial, witness testimony, crimes, considerable background on the people involved, accounts of life on the Spahn ranch, etc.
It would be inaccurate to call it largely fiction.
I read reviews of 2019 "Chaos" . It appears to contain a lot of info, and presents some alternative theories. It is probably worth a read, but
it is not credible just because it claims to be credible. VB's theory of the motivations for the crime may or may not be flawed, but that doesn't automatically
make the theories espoused by Chaos to be correct ones.
Some of the reviews conclude that while the alternative theories presented by Chaos may have merit, the author
falls short in supporting them

So you haven't read it, "Chaos." The author is fully upfront about what and where he is unable to concretely prove certain things.

Unlike Bugliosi, who was a maniac and a liar.

Get back me (if you choose) once you've read both.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

So you haven't read it, "Chaos." The author is fully upfront about what and where he is unable to concretely prove certain things.

Unlike Bugliosi, who was a maniac and a liar.

Get back me (if you choose) once you've read both.

I was not trying to demean the book, I was trying to do the appropriate research.
The accuracy of such things must be held to a high standard, especially when conspiracy theories emerge
I am curious why so negative toward VB.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I was not trying to demean the book, I was trying to do the appropriate research.
The accuracy of such things must be held to a high standard, especially when conspiracy theories emerge
I am curious why so negative toward VB.

The appropriate research is not reading both books??

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I have mixed feelings about the upcoming docuseries

Kaley Cuoco, I suspect may prove to give a better performance than we might expect.
I knew of some of DD struggles, but this series will certainly be much more in depth

A sidenote. There is a character in "The Godfather" novel who is an actress with the initials DD, who has a pure image publicly,
while in reality, she is somewhat different

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

The appropriate research is not reading both books??

I made it clear that I was basing my analysis on reviews, ones that I found to be well written,
and I made points on what was stated in numerous reviews.
It is not conclusive, but it is a starting point.
I gave the author credit for conducting considerable research, alternative theories, and such.
Do you go/view or not go/view tv shows or movies based on reviews and/or trailers?
Do your choices of entertainment depend partly on your friends' opinions.
Ideally, yes, it would be best to read both books.
I don't have the time to do so.

Again, why so negative toward VB?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I made it clear that I was basing my analysis on reviews, ones that I found to be well written,
and I made points on what was stated in numerous reviews.
It is not conclusive, but it is a starting point.
I gave the author credit for conducting considerable research, alternative theories, and such.
Do you go/view or not go/view tv shows or movies based on reviews and/or trailers?
Do your choices of entertainment depend partly on your friends' opinions.
Ideally, yes, it would be best to read both books.
I don't have the time to do so.

Again, why so negative toward VB?

Reading "well-written" reviews is your superior analytic research??


Anyway -- this murder scene is hysterically funny. Until you realize Manson's favorite dude, Bobby BeauSoleil (in prison and still alive at age 76 -- one of the girls from Manson's Family thought Charlie and Bobby were hot for each other, two bad Scorpios) is playing the "Indian" who does the stabbing.

A few weeks before the infamous 1969 Tate-Labianca murders, Bobby and two other Family members went to Gary Hindman's house for money --- a man who'd been too nice to Charlie's brood in the past, and paid the ultimate price for it. Hindman didn't have any cash there, and the trio abused him until Manson got there. Manson then cut off Hindman's ear, they sewed it back on, unsurprisingly refused him medical attention, and then tortured him to death for three days.

Bobby then wrote "Pig" on the wall in Hindman's blood at Charlie's recommendation to throw off police by making them think black militants committed the murder. But when Bobby was caught driving Hindman's car and was arrested for the murder, Manson came up with the clever no-frills plan to slaughter Sharon Tate and her pals at the house on Cielo Drive, and the Labiancas, and likewise scrawl "Piggy/Healter [sic] Skelter" around the victims' various homes to convince law enforcement that Gary Hindman's murder was committed by others on the lam and therefore release BeauSoleil.

It didn't work.

Then there's some stuff about acid trips and broken promises by record executives and intelligence schemes to undermine the hippie movement of the day (y'know, like the woke stuff currently).

Doris Day does not appear in this movie. Although one could edit "Secret Love" into it and it might work:

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Reading "well-written" reviews is your superior analytic research??


Anyway -- this murder scene is hysterically funny. Until you realize Manson's favorite dude, Bobby BeauSoleil (in prison and still alive at age 76 -- one of the girls from Manson's Family thought Charlie and Bobby were hot for each other, two bad Scorpios) is playing the "Indian" who does the stabbing.

A few weeks before the infamous 1969 Tate-Labianca murders, Bobby and two other Family members went to Gary Hindman's house for money --- a man who'd been too nice to Charlie's brood in the past, and paid the ultimate price for it. Hindman didn't have any cash there, and the trio abused him until Manson got there. Manson then cut off Hindman's ear, they sewed it back on, unsurprisingly refused him medical attention, and then tortured him to death for three days.

Bobby then wrote "Pig" on the wall in Hindman's blood at Charlie's recommendation to throw off police by making them think black militants committed the murder. But when Bobby was caught driving Hindman's car and was arrested for the murder, Manson came up with the clever no-frills plan to slaughter Sharon Tate and her pals at the house on Cielo Drive, and the Labiancas, and likewise scrawl "Piggy/Healter [sic] Skelter" around the victims' various homes to convince law enforcement that Gary Hindman's murder was committed by others on the lam and therefore release BeauSoleil.

It didn't work.

Then there's some stuff about acid trips and broken promises by record executives and intelligence schemes to undermine the hippie movement of the day (y'know, like the woke stuff currently).

Doris Day does not appear in this movie. Although one could edit "Secret Love" into it and it might work:

Since I do not intend to read another book on Manson and the 60's - (I have read countless books, articles, etc, seen numerous documentaries, series,
biographies, etc) I checked well-written reviews for guidance. When 10-12 of those repeat the same critiques, I tend to give it some credibility.
As for my "superior analytic research" I am sorry that it does not meet your standards. I did the best I could.

Again, I am not trying to disrespect the Chaos book, I am simply saying that based on what I have read, I can't
say it is an ultimate authority but I give the author credit for what seems like a lot of research and work.

And again, you have not answered why so negative about VB

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Since I do not intend to read another book on Manson and the 60's - (I have read countless books, articles, etc, seen numerous documentaries, series,
biographies, etc) I checked well-written reviews for guidance. When 10-12 of those repeat the same critiques, I tend to give it some credibility.
As for my "superior analytic research" I am sorry that it does not meet your standards. I did the best I could.

You used the words "analysis" and "research." I threw in the word "superior" for purposes of irony.

And again, you have not answered why so negative about VB

Read the book, or don't. I'm not going to recite chapters, especially since you're uninterested in its contents.

 

[ClassyCo]

 

[ClassyCo]

 

[ClassyCo]

https://tork.buzz/classics/A-Look-at-the-Classic-Convertible-That-Carried-Doris-Day-Through-Hollywood-20250515-0006.html

 

[ClassyCo]

There was a lady on Facebook Marketplace selling a bundle of Doris Day movies on DVD. I already have several of her movies, but she let me pick through what she had and buy some of the movies individually.

Just this past Friday, I had the following movies to come in the mail:

BILLY ROSE'S JUMBO
DO NOT DISTURB
THE BALLAD OF JOSIE
CAPRICE
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT?

She has a box set of Doris' earlier musicals that I'm also interested in, but she's decided to go up on her asking price once she found out the cost of shipping. With that, I'll probably pass on buying anything else from her. It would honestly be cheaper to just buy them online myself.

 

[ClassyCo]

For a change of pace today, the wife and I watched CAPRICE (1967) while our little girl took her midday nap. I had bought it a few months back on Facebook Marketplace as a bundle of a few other Doris Day movies, including DO NOT DISTURB, THE BALLAD OF JOSIE, and WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT?

I didn't know much about CAPRICE other than it being one of Day's final films, and that it was one her producer hubby, Martin Melcher, signed her up for without her knowledge.

The movie was, well, just okay. If I'm being honest, I honestly don't know what this movie was supposed to be, and I was quite confused with the story, or what there was of one. Doris, as always, is lovely, but this comedy-thriller-spoof-type of movie just isn't suited to her style. She and Richard Harris, a fine actor, don't share much chemistry, and their romance in the film just comes off as random, considering there isn't much development. I'll spare the finer details of the plot, not that it matters. There isn't much here worth one's time. I must admit, though, that there were a few moments where I genuinely chuckled at what I saw, and Doris herself has a couple of funny moments sprinkled throughout.

CAPRICE just isn't a terribly good movie, and I wanted to like it. Throwing Doris into the spy comedy genre that was widely popular in the mid-to-late 1960s wasn't a bad idea, but I seriously doubt the script for this film was even ready before production started. It feels like they just made it up as they went along, and that's a good thing (this isn't SOME LIKE IT HOT we're talking about). Director Frank Tashlin (the man who exploited Jayne Mansfield on celluloid to cartoonish proportions in THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT and WILL SUCCESS SPOIL ROCK HUNTER?) imports so much goofy slapstick into this movie that it doesn't seem to remember it's supposed to be suspenseful until like 20 minutes before it's over, and then you don't care anymore.

There's the mod wardrobe, the bright colors, the fact that it was one over the very last movies filmed in CinemaScope, and of course, there's Doris Day. But you're not missing anything for not seeing this one.