Forgotten soaps of the 90's

Carrie Fairchild

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Let's see what I'm going to watch next. I still have 2000 Malibu Road and Hyperion Bay on my watch list. Curiously, the latter never aired in Germany. All but the final two episodes are on Youtube.
I liked 2000 Malibu Road. As @tommie said, it’s fun and juicy and I think it’s very much in the vein of 90’s soap as we know it. Hyperion Bay didn’t grab me, even at a time when I’d watch any old soap. There were behind the scenes wranglings about the show’s direction and you can see this onscreen from what I can recall. I look forward to your thoughts on both of them when you do get around to watching.
 

TaranofPrydain

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I'd LOVE to watch this one:
I first saw a few episodes of this one on YouTube although WB kept getting them taken down. One place on the internet was selling all the episodes on DVD (against Warner's wishes), and even though I shouldn't have, curiosity got the better of me. The picture quality was pretty shaky on the second season episodes, and the sound was occasionally blurred, but it was still a fantastic show. Well written, beautiful period detail, well cast, even though the whole ensemble cast idea went a little off (Tammy Lauren as an extremely ambitious young woman and Kyle Chandler as her on-again, off-again boyfriend quickly became the leads, and one character was killed up even in the first season because the role had been so reduced with the new focus)
 

tommie

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Sort of the 90s I guess, but I've finally started watching The $treet aka Darren Star's 2000 soap that flopped horribly.

Unfortunately, the first episode is very much "teehee, look at what we can get away with on network television" and comes across as a bit of a Sex and the City: Male Version set on Wall Street. The second episode is a bit better so far, but you can see why it failed, because well, male sexuality hasn't ever been that taboo so it's not a great hook to sell a show. I'll be interested to see if the show changes direction once Jennie Garth enters (but by then it would've been way too late either way since it was an out of the gate flop).

I also don't think stock broker really works as a sort of an aspirational career. Doctor? Yes. Journalist? Yes. Hell, even advertising exec works due to the creative factor. But stock broker that stares into the screens and talks on the phone all day? No, I mean, I'm sure there are people who want to become a day trader, but nobody aspires to it.
 
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Carrie Fairchild

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The $treet aka Darren Star's 2000 soap that flopped horribly.
It was pulling in around 5m viewers an episode, which was pretty dire for that era. For context, FOX’s Malcolm in the Middle was getting 12m viewers around the same time.
I'll be interested to see if the show changes direction once Jennie Garth enters (but by then it would've been way too late either way since it was an out of the gate flop).
I think I’d given up before she’d arrived but I must go back and rewatch.
I also don't think stock broker really works as a sort of an aspirational career. Doctor? Yes. Journalist? Yes. Hell, even advertising exec works due to the creative factor. But stock broker that stares into the screens and talks on the phone all day? No, I mean, I'm sure there are people who want to become a day trader, but nobody aspires to it.
Interestingly enough, TNT were airing a drama called Bull at the same time, which was also set in Wall Street and was also pulled before all episodes were aired. Presumably the thinking was that they’d be TV versions of the Wall Street film but it obviously didn’t translate.
 

tommie

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It was pulling in around 5m viewers an episode, which was pretty dire for that era. For context, FOX’s Malcolm in the Middle was getting 12m viewers around the same time.
Yes, TV Tango has ratings here: http://tvtango.com/series/street_2000/episodes

It debuted with 7.3 million and had a low of 3.7, rebounded a bit towards the end but clearly not enough. For comparison, Titans debuted with 11.6 million viewers with a low of 5.5 million (which ended up being the last broadcast episode). The $treet was pretty much a bomb from the get-go.

Interestingly enough, TNT were airing a drama called Bull at the same time, which was also set in Wall Street and was also pulled before all episodes were aired. Presumably the thinking was that they’d be TV versions of the Wall Street film but it obviously didn’t translate.
Yes, these trends are odd as they always come in but I don't think it works for a tv series. In the second episode it just struck me how little I cared about the supposedly intense crash and take-over of a company as the characters stared at their screens and blabbed on the phone. It just doesn't work - I guess my hope for The $treet might've been more along Central Park West: The Gil Edition, but even they gave up early on to show anything about his actual work.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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It debuted with 7.3 million and had a low of 3.7, rebounded a bit towards the end but clearly not enough.
By 00’s standards, that’s DOA.
Yes, these trends are odd as they always come in but I don't think it works for a tv series. In the second episode it just struck me how little I cared about the supposedly intense crash and take-over of a company as the characters stared at their screens and blabbed on the phone. It just doesn't work - I guess my hope for The $treet might've been more along Central Park West: The Gil Edition, but even they gave up early on to show anything about his actual work.
Yes, there’s certain shows that do the corporate stuff well - Succession, Billions - but that’s because the writing is good and they’re well cast shows. I think the issue with The $treet (from memory) is that it was neither well written or well cast (I’ve mentioned before that I thought there were good actors in the cast but the chemistry wasn’t there) so they couldn’t elevate the content enough to make it interesting.
 

tommie

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By 00’s standards, that’s DOA.
I remember following the ratings at the time because both Melrose and 90210 had ended and I wanted both Titans and The $treet to work as replacements for those. While Titans kind of debuted "meh", The $treet was absolutely shockingly low that I'm surprised it actually lasted seven episodes on broadcast. They obviously had high hopes for the show after Darren's success on Sex and the City and Central Park West was just a "blip", but yikes. Fox was also about to enter it's reality era, which probably didn't help.

I think the issue with The $treet (from memory) is that it was neither well written or well cast (I’ve mentioned before that I thought there were good actors in the cast but the chemistry wasn’t there) so they couldn’t elevate the content enough to make it interesting.
I think the issue is that these characters just doesn't really have the stakes in the business - on Succession, we're following them at the highest level but on The $treet they're just... stockbrockers. The day-to-day job of following a chart essentially and trading; as I said, it's just hard to get engaged. When a character learns about a deal/merger and doesn't tell a co-worker due to ethics it just doesn't feel... urgent. The guy in question could lose his job but... who cares? Why does any of these characters want to be a stockbrocker? There's a receptionist that also wants to be one, but doesn't have the education or something and it's just. Ok, I get people obviously get into this business, but why? Would it be so bad to go and do something else?
They're after all not competing to be the head honcho. It would be like following the office workers on Succession that have no discernible shot at taking over the company.
 
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tommie

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It's interesting, because obviously they must've felt early on in the production that something wasn't working with The $treet since they introduce a new character (Bridgette) to spice things up by episode 3. There also seems to be a move away from the "stare at the computer screens" going on (more board meetings!). Unfortunately, I think they greenlit this due to the talent backstage (Darren Star being hot again due to Sex & the City) and didn't really think through how the series was going to look. Even Melrose Place had a better pilot than this and that wasn't great, but at least had a point of view!

Maybe it could've been a great series if they had let it perculate a bit and work out the kinks before even filming a pilot. It's a shame. I still love both the Beverly Hills 90210 and Central Park West pilots (Sex & the City's was also great from memory).

ETA: it's interesting how they introduce Jennie Garth's character - there's basically no lead-up and appears near the end of episode 5. My suspicion is that they probably shot her scene in post-production due to the failing ratings in order to introduce her as soon as possible in attempt to boost the ratings.
 
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Carrie Fairchild

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ETA: it's interesting how they introduce Jennie Garth's character - there's basically no lead-up and appears near the end of episode 5. My suspicion is that they probably shot her scene in post-production due to the failing ratings in order to introduce her as soon as possible in attempt to boost the ratings.
They obviously knew what they had in the can needed a lift because the show didn’t premiere until November 1st yet there were reports in mid-August about Jennie coming in as a guest star.
 

tommie

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They obviously knew what they had in the can needed a lift because the show didn’t premiere until November 1st yet there were reports in mid-August about Jennie coming in as a guest star.
Makes sense - I've watched until the last episode aired (episode 7) and there's a marked difference between the pilot and what's happening now - not saying that it's necessarily good, but it's obvious they felt the show wasn't working as early as episode 3. Gone are the supposed intense "stare at the computer to watch the stock" scenes and in are more board meetings and other more interpersonal stuff. More out of the office things that's not necessarily connected there are happening too.

It'll be interesting to see how the next four episodes play out at least, but nothing could've saved the show when it premiered to that rating.
 

tommie

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On episode 9 of The $treet now. It's very obvious that they've moved past a lot of the early "intense" plots of staring at the computer screen and now moved into focusing on interpersonal relationships. Jennie Garth's characters hedge fund scam is something that I could see Carrie Fairchild on Central Park West pull; it's just too bad she's a side character and not completely taking over the show. I don't think it's particularly got going yet and I doubt it would by the last two episodes, but at least it's not just there like with the first few episodes.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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One early review that seems to sum the whole mess up pretty accurately.

I saw another article that points out that a lot of FOX’s new shows that season were from big name creators including James Cameron (Dark Angel), David E Kelley (Boston Public) and Chris Carter (The Lone Gunmen). I’d imagine Darren Star’s cachet after Sex and the City plus his previous hits at FOX is what propelled The $treet into production as opposed to it being a great show. FOX obviously had a tactic that year to roll out the big guns to maximise PR potential.
 

tommie

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Well, just as expected, The $treet just kind of ends, like Titans. This isn't surprising as the show was supposedly pulled from production during episode 12 (which was had the title "Framed"), but I was curious to see if they might've tried to film and fold things into episode 11. I guess they just didn't bother.

Honestly, I wouldn't have minded a show with Jennie's character scamming her father via a stock brocker and manipulating her brother... then again, it sounds like a good plot for Central Park West season 2 where Carrie would use Gil to get money from Allen and manipulating Peter to do so.

I guess I wouldn't really recommend watching this except for the sake of curiosity. It never really gets going and isn't even in the so-bad-it's-fun-to-riff-at category that Titans and Models, Inc are. It's a show that exists.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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Honestly, I wouldn't have minded a show with Jennie's character scamming her father via a stock brocker and manipulating her brother... then again, it sounds like a good plot for Central Park West season 2 where Carrie would use Gil to get money from Allen and manipulating Peter to do so.
Coming only four years after Central Park West ended, you’d wonder if it was an actual plot that Star had in mind for Carrie.

I guess I wouldn't really recommend watching this except for the sake of curiosity. It never really gets going and isn't even in the so-bad-it's-fun-to-riff-at category that Titans and Models, Inc are. It's a show that exists.
Thanks for the synopses of what you watched. As I said before, my recollection of the show first time around is that it was boring, but curiosity would’ve drawn me back to rewatch it. I may do at some stage but it’s at the bottom of a very long watchlist now.
 

tommie

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I've done some research into 2000 Malibu Road and it first appears to be talked about in January of 1992 and always seems like it was intended to air in the summer of '92, so it wasn't a left-over from the previous season:

2000maliburoad.png

They claim it's supposed to be a half hour here and there's a few other sources repeating that, but I think it's more down to misunderstanding. It hadn't been cast at this point so it probably didn't film until a few months later at this point. It makes it even more baffling that they couldn't get it together and have it run in the regular season - personally, I would've ordered episodes to air in the Thursday 10PM slot in March and April while Knots took a break to set up their final episodes.
 

tommie

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I often forget how much stuff is available on Archive.org and found Freshman Dorm, a short-lived CBS college soap that aired for five episodes along with 2000 Malibu Road in the summer of 1992. It starred Robin Lively, Matthew Fox and wooden board Casper Van Dien among others and is, predictably, about young adults living in... a freshman dorm! The focus in on three young women - one is a naive country gal from Minnesota (who is a virgin, but also has a jock boyfriend), one is a blue collar hispanic who has to struggle with juggling school and working a job and the rich tart who flirts with ALL the guys (but also seems especially taken with the lone black guy in the cast).

It's a soap alright - the pilot episode is okay. I could see myself watching this, but at the same time would you really skip the delicious summer episodes of 90210 that was airing in the same time slot? Sometimes counterprogramming can work I guess (2000 Malibu Road did well against Melrose Place, after all), but this just seemed like kamikazing the show before it had a chance to gain traction.

Moving this over here since it seems more appropriate.

Either way, episode two and remember what I said about the rich tart flirting with the lone black guy in the cast? Forget that - Justin Lazard has suddenly appeared as the college-aged Dylan McKay and taken her interest; the black guy has suddenly met Alexia Robinson as a new love interest. Ooop.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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Moving this over here since it seems more appropriate.

Either way, episode two and remember what I said about the rich tart flirting with the lone black guy in the cast? Forget that - Justin Lazard has suddenly appeared as the college-aged Dylan McKay and taken her interest; the black guy has suddenly met Alexia Robinson as a new love interest. Ooop.
I’ve never seen this show but have read about it (I think Jason Gedrick was among the cast?). It’s another one of those shows that seems like an odd fit for CBS at that moment in their history, similar to when they tried to go “hip” a few years later with Central Park West when their bread and butter had been older skewing series like In The Heat of the Night and Murder She Wrote.
 
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