How do you think the show would have gone had Pam stayed?

[Snarky Oracle!]

It would have been better.
the same show.
VP or no VP, the Pam/Bobby story was a major part of the dynamics of the show Without Pam, it was not.

There was no plan to recast, apparently.
If there was, it would have had to be a "name" actress.
Jaclyn Smith could have been good, IMHO. She was born in Houston, Texas (which is actually where the major oil industry in Texas nis present)
and could have brought something positive to the role.
Unfortunately, some people are so resistant to any change, it was probably not considered.

All we are saying
Is give Jaclyn a chance...

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

No actress would have been given a chance, apparently. Instead we had the substandard story lines from seasons 11-14

 

[DallasFanForever]

Had Pam stayed I think the show would’ve had a little more life moving forward but ultimately I don’t feel it would’ve made too big of a difference. The show had already peaked at that point.

Where it would’ve helped the most would be with Bobby and Cliff. Neither character was ever the same without Pam around. She was the link to the Barnes-Ewing feud. Both characters seemed lost without her.

Welcome to the site @Natalie S.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

No actress would have been given a chance, apparently. Instead we had the substandard story lines from seasons 11-14

You seem to be just fine with re-casts of core characters in primetime shows (like daytime soaps do all the time). A lot of us don't think that usually works very well.

Yes, the lousy writing from the closing years causes everything else to make little difference. Phyllis Diller could have played Pam by then and no one would have noticed because no one was watching. (From what I hear, Diller turned them down).

Had Pam stayed I think the show would’ve had a little more life moving forward but ultimately I don’t feel it would’ve made too big of a difference. The show had already peaked at that point.

Where it would’ve helped the most would be with Bobby and Cliff. Neither character was ever the same without Pam around. She was the link to the Barnes-Ewing feud. Both characters seemed lost without her.

Welcome to the site @Natalie S.

Obviously, if an actor (like Jim Davis) dies, or an actor (like Patrick Duffy) leaves and the character dies, it's incumbent upon the producers to write the character out effectively -- to make their absence a character in itself (at least for a while).

They didn't do that with Pam. They just didn't seem to want to deal with it (especially given the harsh criticism they'd received for the cheapy way they'd executed Bobby's de-execution). Sure, later on, they did the Jeanne O'Brien storyline with Margaret Michaels -- and that really had potential -- but then that sputtered out and went nowhere (other than giving Bobby a chance to say, "Goodbye, Pam" in a freeze frame outside Jeanne's apartment -- was it snowing or have I imagined that??) because Lenny & Lakin just didn't seem all that interested in it.

In "Carousel" in 1988 (also with Michaels, and a scene I like) they seemed to say outright that Pam was terminal. And that was about it. The DALLAS brass still seemed disinterested in it.

But that brief moment, although a re-cast, is so shadowed and ambiguous, it almost feels acceptable. It's not "too much" and we're not entirely sure whether we should take it seriously.

Clearly, the show indeed had already peaked. And, as they say, it's Act Three which really determines the quality of your product --- and we sadly know what happened with DALLAS in that capacity.... I have no problem with Pam leaving when she did, as mysteriously as she did, because nothing lasts forever -- but just frickin' write it, forgodsake!

It wasn't until nuDALLAS addressed it a quarter century later (one of their best plots, bytheway) in late-Season 2, that we got any details about it at all!

Replace VP with PSM

Problem fixed, everybody happy.

Sun in Capricorn/Aquarius Rising -- before all the surgery, they had the same face, the same lake-dunking in their respective pilot episodes, the same truck-collision exits, and the same slapping skills.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

You seem to be just fine with re-casts of core characters in primetime shows (like daytime soaps do all the time). A lot of us don't think that usually works very well.

Yes, the lousy writing from the closing years causes everything else to make little difference. Phyllis Diller could have played Pam by then and no one would have noticed because no one was watching. (From what I hear, Diller turned them down).



Obviously, if an actor (like Jim Davis) dies, or an actor (like Patrick Duffy) leaves and the character dies, it's incumbent upon the producers to write the character out effectively -- to make their absence a character in itself (at least for a while).

They didn't do that with Pam. They just didn't seem to want to deal with it (especially given the harsh criticism they'd received for the cheapy way they'd executed Bobby's de-execution). Sure, later on, they did the Jeanne O'Brien storyline with Margaret Michaels -- and that really had potential -- but then that sputtered out and went nowhere (other than giving Bobby a chance to say, "Goodbye, Pam" in a freeze frame outside Jeanne's apartment -- was it snowing or have I imagined that??) because Lenny & Lakin just didn't seem all that interested in it.

In "Carousel" in 1988 (also with Michaels, and a scene I like) they seemed to say outright that Pam was terminal. And that was about it. The DALLAS brass still seemed disinterested in it.

But that brief moment, although a re-cast, is so shadowed and ambiguous, it almost feels acceptable. It's not "too much" and we're not entirely sure whether we should take it seriously.

Clearly, the show indeed had already peaked. And, as they say, it's Act Three which really determines the quality of your product --- and we sadly know what happened with DALLAS in that capacity.... I have no problem with Pam leaving when she did, as mysteriously as she did, because nothing lasts forever -- but just frickin' write it, forgodsake!

It wasn't until nuDALLAS addressed it a quarter century later (one of their best plots, bytheway) in late-Season 2, that we got any details about it at all!



Sun in Capricorn/Aquarius Rising -- before all the surgery, they had the same face, the same lake-dunking in their respective pilot episodes, the same truck-collision exits, and the same slapping skills.

It is a case by case basis on recasts.
ie Maybe some people liked the "new" Darren. I didn't care much one way or the other, but some people did
Some shows have recast what might be called major supporting characters. Some have worked, some haven't but the shows continued, successfully in at least some cases.
In more cases, at least some recasts of noteworthy characters occurred when a show was airing for several seasons already, and was past its peak.
Recasts may have been blamed, but the shows were already near the end of their run.
It is arrogant to suggest IMHO, that there is only one person on the planet who can play a role. Some roles don't lend themselves to a recast, certainly.
Daytime Soaps have recast for years, sometimes with success, sometimes not. I was only speculating that Jaclyn Smith,
would have been a good choice as Pam IF they were going to recast. Jaclyn Smith was very popular and it might have worked, if so many fans were not so
entrenched in their attitudes.
Bobby/Pam was a major dynamic that made the show must-watch, and not having it was detrimental to the later seasons
But it is apparently a major anathema merely to suggest an way to keep it going , instead we have the mess that Seasons 11-14 became!
And somehow, bringing back BBG didn't help the ratings!
And on a different point, some of the controversy over Miss Ellie's recast is contradictory. If Dallas needed a matriarch (as many claim)
and BBG was not coming back for whatever reason, they would have to recast.
What of Howard Keel, then? What function would he have had without Miss Ellie?
Ironically, BBG fans who objected to a Jock recast denied the possibility of a major story line with Ellie, Jock and Clayton.
It would have given them something substantial to do in the show.

Disagree with me, fine, but what would you suggest to "save" seasons 11-14?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Disagree with me, fine, but at least be accurate about what I actually said

And what did you actually say? Because I know your being represented correctly is important.

EDIT in response to your EDIT:

Disagree with me, fine, but what would you suggest to "save" seasons 11-14?

Now you've changed what you've said -- how am I expected to keep up?

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

OK I didn't think you would respond so fast.

I was merely suggesting that Jaclyn Smith would be a good choice for Pam IF there was going to be
a (hold on) recast!

I guess people were happy that Pam wasn't recast, BBG came back,
and that Jock was gone and not recast,and that the Jessica Fletcher story line appeared in season 13

and yet ratings dropped steeply year by year
What would you have done seasons 11-14, knowing that VP wasn't returning?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

OK I didn't think you would respond so fast.

I was merely suggesting that Jaclyn Smith would be a good choice for Pam IF there was going to be
a (hold on) recast!

I guess people were happy that Pam wasn't recast, BBG came back,
and that Jock was gone and not recast,and that the Jessica Fletcher story line appeared in season 13

?

Are you more accepting of the women being recast than the men?

What would you have done seasons 11-14, knowing that VP wasn't returning?

Gosh, I've written that sooo many times. Mostly, I wouldn't really veto the plots they did; only, I'd want changes in tone and detail.

Same with DYNASTY's Seasons 3 thru 8, where everything just got dumber and dumber; I'm not sure I'd disallow too many of their story ideas, but just do them in such a way that's not so stupid.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Your assertion that I have more acceptance of recasts in female roles is beyond preposterous.

I have said many times on this forum that I wanted a Jock recast, because it would have made for better stories.
Steve Forrest would have been a good choice to really be Jock.
I thought that Keenan Wynn was a good recast for Digger.
I wanted Morgan Fairchild to continue to continue as Jenna Wade
I didn't like the one-off Pam recast, or the Pam look-alike story.

And somehow this adds up to preferring female recasts more?

I suppose it is anathema on this site merely to suggest that more than one person on the planet is capable of playing a role

The character of Pam is integral to the Dallas story.
The Bobby/Pam relationship, as incorporated into the Barnes-Ewing saga, was indispensable to the Dallas narrative
It is more about the cohesion of the Dallas fictional universe of the show than who plays the role
I suggested that Jaclyn Smith could be a possibility, nothing more, nothing less
and that somehow makes me less accepting of male and female role recasts?
That is a ridiculous leap to faulty generalizations.
The departure of the Pam character was the real point of the beginning of the end


Donna Reed... I notice that you didn't care for her in her Oscar-winning role..Hmmm
It seems that anyone who even suggests the possibility that she could play the role is barraged with negativity.

For those who claim that SF needed a matriarch, well if BBG wasn't expected to return for whatever reason,
there had to be a recast
Unfortunately, some people are so irrational about the recast, that any actress would have been criticized
Sure, I suppose playing a Jessica Fletcher clone in season 13 required a Ruth Gordon talent LOL
I never cared for Clayton, but the one season with Donna Reed
was the one season that I almost found him tolerable

Miss Ellie had no effective story after Jim Davis was gone, except for the will.
No matter who played Miss Ellie, it clearly didn't impact rating, because there was a sharp decline when BBG returned, and the ratings never recovered.

Please respond to what I actually said, and do not make such absurd conclusions

 

[Toni]

It would have been better.
VP or no VP, the Pam/Bobby story was a major part of the dynamics of the show Without Pam, it was not the same show

There was no plan to recast, apparently.
If there was, it would have had to be a "name" actress.
Jaclyn Smith could have been good, IMHO. She was born in Houston, Texas (which is actually where the major oil industry in Texas nis present)
and could have brought something positive to the role.
Unfortunately, some people are so resistant to any change, it was probably not considered.

I´d have loved to see Jaclyn in the role of Bobby´s next wife. As Pam, Jaclyn would also be driving one day and...

​

 

[Matthew Blaisdel]

It would have been better.
VP or no VP, the Pam/Bobby story was a major part of the dynamics of the show

But their story was told. How many times can you seperate them and bring back together?! The premise of the show was told, from start to finish, they had to come up with new things. They clearly knew that, but going the comedic road wasn't a good choice either.
I'm not sure that keeping all those who were gone after season 10/11 would have helped, if they hadn't anything interesting left to do with them after a decade of runtime. Even Knots - which was way better written than Dallas towards it's end had to find new ways.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

But their story was told. How many times can you seperate them and bring back together?! The premise of the show was told, from start to finish, they had to come up with new things. They clearly knew that, but going the comedic road wasn't a good choice either.
I'm not sure that keeping all those who were gone after season 10/11 would have helped, if they hadn't anything interesting left to do with them after a decade of runtime. Even Knots - which was way better written than Dallas towards it's end had to find new ways.

There were some avenues to explore.
Pam becoming more of a businesswoman, allying herself with Ewing rivals,
,Digger was her father after all, Digger had other children,
Jenna's father was her father (OK, silly)
Rebecca's will was invalid, Cliff and her did not have Barnes-WW

Good writers can always find something

 

[Matthew Blaisdel]

I'm more in the "good writers/producers know when to stop"-camp.

 

[Seaviewer]

If there was, it would have had to be a "name" actress.

No, that's usually where they make the mistake. Donna Reed, Emma Samms, even Priscilla (although I got used to her). A name actress draws attention to herself, not the character.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

No, that's usually where they make the mistake. Donna Reed, Emma Samms, even Priscilla (although I got used to her). A name actress draws attention to herself, not the character.

I think that circumstances were a little different in each case.
Donna Reed was only there for one season. When Emma Samms joined Dynasty, it was near the end of its ru, and ES had a Gh fanbase. PSMartin was not returning, from what I understand.
I didn't care for PP's Jenna, but the character had only made two appearances, with two different actresses.
In none of those cases did the recast do longterm damage, due to the varying circumstances.
In any case, its a moot point. both shows are off air

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Your assertion that I have more acceptance of recasts in female roles is beyond preposterous.

I didn't assert that you were doing that, I asked if you were doing that.

Donna Reed... I notice that you didn't care for her in her Oscar-winning role..Hmmm

I also Sinatra wasn't great in his Oscar-winning role from the same movie.

I never cared for Clayton, but the one season with Donna Reed
was the one season that I almost found him tolerable

That's probably because they started giving him Ellie's dialogue in order to get her off the screen. You might have liked Clayton even better if they'd given him her bouffant.

Please respond to what I actually said, and do not make such absurd conclusions

But I asked you!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I didn't assert that you were doing that, I asked if you were doing that.



I also Sinatra wasn't great in his Oscar-winning role from the same movie.



That's probably because they started giving him Ellie's dialogue in order to get her off the screen. You might have liked Clayton even better if they'd given him her bouffant.



But I asked you!

I did answer you, in detail

I said:

"I have said many times on this forum that I wanted a Jock recast, because it would have made for better stories.
Steve Forrest would have been a good choice to really be Jock.
I thought that Keenan Wynn was a good recast for Digger.
I wanted Morgan Fairchild to continue to continue as Jenna Wade
I didn't like the one-off Pam recast, or the Pam look-alike story.'

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I did answer you, in detail

I said:

"I have said many times on this forum that I wanted a Jock recast, because it would have made for better stories.
Steve Forrest would have been a good choice to really be Jock.
I thought that Keenan Wynn was a good recast for Digger.
I wanted Morgan Fairchild to continue to continue as Jenna Wade
I didn't like the one-off Pam recast, or the Pam look-alike story.'

And it was fascinating. I was amazed and enjoyed it!

Although I disagree with most of it (except for the Morgan Fairchild stuff -- although the later, smugger Bobby would probably never have courted Fairchild's more overtly predatory Jenna).

 

[Mustard]

Donna Reed was only there for one season. When Emma Samms joined Dynasty, it was near the end of its ru, and ES had a Gh fanbase. PSMartin was not returning, from what I understand.

Emma Samms, when she started as Fallon in 1985, was for a couple of episodes of Dynasty and then the series of The Colbys (1985-1987). When The Colbys was cancelled after 2 seasons, Jeff and Fallon were moved back to Dynasty until it was cancelled in 1989. Pamela Sue Martin had played Fallon in Dynasty's first 4 seasons (up to 1984) ending with an end of season cliffhanger that was a little similar to Pam's Dallas exit in 1987.

I've heard that Pamela Sue Martin was offered to return as Fallon 4 times, and turned it down every time. The first time was for The Colbys, the second time for Season 8 of Dynasty, the third time for Season 9 of Dynasty and the fourth time for the 1991 reunion of Dynasty. Samms did the reunion, the same reunion where Al Corley returned as Steven after leaving nearly a decade earlier at the end of Season 2 (Jack Coleman had played Steven in Seasons 3-8).

 

[Slugworth]

Pam frolicking inside her black Corvette

She was so sexy in that Corvette. Wish she had kept that car and also wish there had been more scenes with it.

Jenna should have died or left after Bobby got engaged to Pam.

Yeah...there's no purpose to the Jenna character without Pam-Bobby.

I think Pam staying on would have slowed down Dallas' decline, but the general trend would still be downwards, and Victoria Principal could see that. The weakest season of all for Pam was her last one.

The character was just running in circles towards the end.

The only thing they could've done with Pam is a pregnancy...and the last thing the show needed at that late stage was another kid.

It was obvious that the producers were purposely making Pam unlikeable in her final season.

She was becoming unlikeable before her final season. It started during the battle for Ewing Oil. Her overreaction to Bobby and JR "destroying the family".

She was just looking for a way out...and used that battle as her excuse to leave.

She goes running off with Mark to France, goes out with him to all the Dallas hot spots, but has conniption fits if she sees Bobby standing anywhere near another woman.

I thought Donna was always unlikable

I didn't like her neither.

Only story of hers I found interesting was when she was on that commission trying to shut down JR's gas stations.