Dallas Couples JR & Sue Ellen - Swoonalicious Appreciation Thread

[Sarah]

Continuing my quest for peace, I wondered what everyone thought about this scene. I have my own thoughts on why he didn't stay with her, or at least kiss her here...what does anyone else think?

 

[Karin]

JR loved Sue Ellen and when he thought that she had been with BD Calhoun he was jealous and worried.

Yet the scene you just posted is so painful to watch. When I first captured that more than 10 years ago I labelled it "Not close" since they had problems communicating. I wanted him to take her into his arms and comfort her. But he didn't. She was crying and he was hurt too but they were just too alienated at that point.

@Karin Schill is there anyway you could post the caps from the scene where he brings the photos to her of the Calhoun kidnap? Would really appreciate it when you have time.

Okay so I've finally found some time to capture this scene for you so here's the screen caps you requested.

 

[Karin]

 

[Sarah]

Oh @Karin Schill thank you!!! I love that scene it's one of my favourites! I think you can see them starting to come back to each other. How she defends herself by saying 'I'm not having an affair!' (she wants him to know this) and his look of jealousy when he initially doesn't believe her. It's just amazing. Thanks for taking the time to post these. How beautiful is she!

 

[Sarah]

So to get some more discussion going, I wondered what fans of the couple thought about the horrid Kimberley Cryder storyline??

Does anyone think JR would have married her and if so where would that have left Sue Ellen?

My theory on this was that JR always thought he could win Sue Ellen back no matter what. When she caught him in bed with Kimberley I think he thought she would default back to drinking and he could keep her under control so to speak. Boy was he wrong!!!

But has he married Kinberley what do you think would have happened? He certainly didn't love her. Would he have tried to win Sue Ellen back?

Really hoping for your thoughts! @Alexia @Karin Schill @Goldie @zephiey @Miss Texas 1967

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

So to get some more discussion going, I wondered what fans of the couple thought about the horrid Kimberley Cryder storyline??

Does anyone think JR would have married her and if so where would that have left Sue Ellen?

My theory on this was that JR always thought he could win Sue Ellen back no matter what. When she caught him in bed with Kimberley I think he thought she would default back to drinking and he could keep her under control so to speak. Boy was he wrong!!!

But has he married Kinberley what do you think would have happened? He certainly didn't love her. Would he have tried to win Sue Ellen back?

Really hoping for your thoughts! @Alexia @Karin Schill @Goldie @zephiey @Miss Texas 1967

Wasn't JR mostly just playing Kimberly? He never intended to marry her, with or without Sue Ellen's cooperation in a divorce. Kimberly was more into him than he was her, then her father died and she flipped. I doubt JR would have actually married her, he would have said just about anything to anyone to get what he wanted and worked hard in the background making deals to ensure he got what he wanted without having to sacrifice what he didn't want to sacrifice. I think if her father hadn't died he would have kept stringing her along while working on Dr Styles in the background, he was already doing that.

As for Sue Ellen, I don't think she would have really been anywhere different to where she was when they did separate and then divorce. She was still floating around in his life and by the time she found out about him and Kimberly she had Nick, so I think it would have been as it was until it wasn't. Then later she was still the somewhat bitter ex, making it her mission to annoy him even though she could have easily moved ahead with her life. JR had a tendency to get jealous when she was with other men so I can see him potentially getting jealous, but when she was actively trying to irritate him she never had the same appeal as when she was more helpless (e.g. after their first divorce). Throw all of that out the window if she decided Cliff was the man for her though, or perhaps Bobby, Dusty or Clayton lol. Someone like Nick or Don were less threatening to JR and therefore I think he cared less.

 

[Sarah]

Thanks @Miss Texas 1967 that's really interesting and thanks for the response. Sue Ellen was so much stronger now than in the past, and I find it interesting that you see Nick as less of a threat. I would have thought he was more of a threat so I'm glad about that. This storyline really bothers me. To me it was the end of Dallas and there were so many better ways it could have gone. I wish she had just moved on - not been bitter and they would have so much more of a chance of a reconciliation. I have to believe they would have got back together eventually though, which they were heading to in TNT and the movies of course.

I do believe JR still loved her but became angered beyond belief when she stopped him from getting WestStar. I absolutely loathe this storyline. Loathe it. Angry because it could have went in so many other ways.

Thanks again for getting involved - any more comments are welcome!

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

Thanks @Miss Texas 1967 that's really interesting and thanks for the response. Sue Ellen was so much stronger now than in the past, and I find it interesting that you see Nick as less of a threat. I would have thought he was more of a threat so I'm glad about that. This storyline really bothers me. To me it was the end of Dallas and there were so many better ways it could have gone. I wish she had just moved on - not been bitter and they would have so much more of a chance of a reconciliation. I have to believe they would have got back together eventually though, which they were heading to in TNT and the movies of course.

I do believe JR still loved her but became angered beyond belief when she stopped him from getting WestStar. I absolutely loathe this storyline. Loathe it. Angry because it could have went in so many other ways.

Thanks again for getting involved - any more comments are welcome!

I think it could have gone other ways, I always liked the idea of JR and Sue Ellen ultimately working together there and coming to that WestStar meeting together, but the way the show positioned everyone it just couldn't have happened without both of them taking a good look at themselves and dropping the need to needle each other. As it was Sue Ellen was still hung up on getting revenge against JR, when she was with Nick and Don, Nick less so but even then she couldn't completely commit because JR might also move on and commit to someone else.

 

[Sarah]

I think it could have gone other ways, I always liked the idea of JR and Sue Ellen ultimately working together there and coming to that WestStar meeting together, but the way the show positioned everyone it just couldn't have happened without both of them taking a good look at themselves and dropping the need to needle each other. As it was Sue Ellen was still hung up on getting revenge against JR, when she was with Nick and Don, Nick less so but even then she couldn't completely commit because JR might also move on and commit to someone else.

Thanks again @Miss Texas 1967! I love opening up a discussion about them.

What do you mean by him committing to someone else? Is he capable of that? I don’t think so...

It could have been sooooooo much better had the dumb writers made them work together for WestStar - like the ball was dropped completely. I feel this was the true end of Dallas. It just didn’t work in so many ways once the Golden Couple parted. I understand Sue Ellen’s need to get her own back but I do feel they may have reunited quicker had she not been so hell bent on revenge. I feel she could get away with almost anything where JR was concerned but once she messed with Ewing Oil well... it took him a very long time to get past that.

And no. I’m not defending him.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

Thanks again @Miss Texas 1967! I love opening up a discussion about them.

What do you mean by him committing to someone else? Is he capable of that? I don’t think so...

It could have been sooooooo much better had the dumb writers made them work together for WestStar - like the ball was dropped completely. I feel this was the true end of Dallas. It just didn’t work in so many ways once the Golden Couple parted. I understand Sue Ellen’s need to get her own back but I do feel they may have reunited quicker had she not been so hell bent on revenge. I feel she could get away with almost anything where JR was concerned but once she messed with Ewing Oil well... it took him a very long time to get past that.

And no. I’m not defending him.

I mean they were sort of the same in the sense that when they were hot for each other it was no one else, then JR would cheat and Sue Ellen would be pining after him wondering what she did wrong and how she could bring him back to her, then she'd move on and find a man to fill her wants for intimacy and decency, then JR would get jealous and they'd eventually come back. They hated when the other was with someone else but it didn't stop them from going there multiple times. In the time of Kimberly/Nick they were in a slightly different routine to the usual, but still it would have never been that way if JR hadn't taken those steps with Kimberly in the first place. Sue Ellen didn't cheat with Nick until after she found out about JR and Kimberly. Considering their pattern, I don't think actually making a life with other people was in their heads as a real possibility, because eventually they always came back together.

I'm not sure how to answer whether JR could actually commit to another woman. I don't even know if he could commit to Sue Ellen the way she wished he would. The next time he made the commitment of marriage it was because it was that or his life and then redoing those vows he was doing it out of the familial pressure he was under to do the right thing by Cally which ended up being orchestrated by Sue Ellen anyway. We never got to see him properly fall in love again so I don't know if he could. I think Sue Ellen was the woman for him but marriage was not the type of life he could make an honest commitment to. I didn't mind his relationship with Cally, but it wasn't nearly as deep as anything he had with Sue Ellen. Bear in mind too that he did the same thing to Cally he did to Sue Ellen, lied, cheated and generally manipulated the way things were going, in real life that's not healthy.

As a fictional couple I love the JR&SE pairing, but in real life I think I'd be telling Sue Ellen woman to woman to get the heck away from JR and stop expecting him to change this time. Or at least go into a rekindled relationship with her eyes wide open.

 

[Karin]

Interesting topic of conversation.

Adding my two cents to it. First of all I definitely agree with @Miss Texas 1967 that if JR and Sue Ellen was a real life couple she should have left him since the relationship was really destructive.
However since they are just a fictional couple I of course think they belong together and want to see them together.

I also agree that Sue Ellen would never have cheated with Nick if she hadn't found out that JR was having an affair with Kimberly Cryder. That look on her face when she realizes that he's back to his cheating ways was just heartbreaking.



Moving back to @Sarah 's original question. No I don't think JR would have actually married Kimberly Cryder. I get the feeling that he was just stringing her along to get what he wanted, which was access to her father's Weststar stock. He was a fool to get into bed with Kimberly in the first place but in JR's mind it was all for business. Besides they were both married to other people and JR had no intention of abandoning Sue Ellen for Kimberly. However what he hadn't counted on was that Kimberly was not happy with her marriage and for some reason wanted JR to marry her instead. This put JR in a tricky position and after Sue Ellen found out about him and Kimberly his marriage went cold.

Sue Ellen was heartbroken when she learnt he was back to his cheating ways. But she was also stronger than before, which meant that she didn't react the way JR had anticipated when he set her up to find him with Kimberly.



I think JR as well as the viewer had expected Sue Ellen to fall apart after this. But she didn't.



In fact I remember watching this scene with my parents in the first broadcast and that my mom felt sorry for Sue Ellen when she got the key card. She started talking about how Sue Ellen had gone through this once before and I of course had no idea of what she was talking about and started asking a bunch of questions about what had happened earlier on in the show. Anyway I remember vividly that my mom sided with Sue Ellen in this battle and that I did too. We sided with Sue Ellen so much that we were annoyed when JR didn't end up dead after she had shot him.

My dad didn't agree however and simply told us that of course JR couldn't die since then there wouldn't be a show. To him JR was Dallas.

And well we're getting off topic here. But it's just a couple of things I remember from watching the show with my parents when I was a kid.

Back to JR/SE. Ironically I think not even having Sue Ellen shooting JR made him stop wanting her!



I mean just think of the scene after she had saved his life by telling Nick's dad the truth.



In that scene JR wants Sue Ellen and John Ross and him to have dinner together. He is trying to charm her, using the same tactics as he did during their first divorce. So well my guess is that if Linda hadn't chosen to leave Dallas when she did, JR/SE would have been remarried again and we'd never had to sit through the whole Vanessa debacle.

 

[Sarah]

Thank you so much @Karin Schill for sharing your thoughts - it means a lot. I love the discussion here. The Kimberley Cryder storyline is one of, if not THE hardest for me to watch. To be honest I haven't been able to watch it since the late 80's - too painful. For me it was the end of the show, not just the temporary end of JR and Sue Ellen. JR and Sue Ellen not being together equated the end of Dallas - it just wasn't the same. JR's character diminished. Sue Ellen became very bitter. They changed completely. I couldn't bare it. They deserved so much better than that storyline.

 

[Sarah]

THIS:

JEALOUS:

LOVE IT :love7:

 

[Sarah]

And this one is - 'it's all forgotten, please come home...'

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

THIS:

JEALOUS:

LOVE IT :love7:

Look at that pout

A couple more for the theme (found these on Tumblr)

 

[Sarah]

Look at that pout

A couple more for the theme (found these on Tumblr)

Thanks for taking part again @Miss Texas 1967 - great to keep the thread going. God he sure was jealous wasn't he? And a total spy

 

[Goldie]

Interesting discussion on the JR / Kimberly Cryder storyline. You're right, Sarah … it did feel like the start of the end of the show because the producers / writers never did go back to a JR / SE pairing after that. I mean, they did pair them in scenes here and there until Linda left (more on that in the following post). And no matter what the characters had dragged each other through, their chemistry still popped off the screen when they were together. It just wasn't the same, though. And for what? Sometimes I wonder if the producers and writers intentionally keep them apart after the Dream Season because both Sue Ellen and Linda had become so full of potential, they didn't know what the heck to do with it.

But back to the Kimberly Cryder stuff … it was just so paper thin and it felt so cheap. Plus the fun was gone … the JR/ SE dynamic became just flat out mean and nasty. No more teasing, no more knowing glances, no more subtle nuances. JR was paired up with Kimberly only for WestStar and Sue Ellen was stuck with Nick. For all the buildup about how brilliant Nick was, the dude was as dumb as a box of rocks. Then that led to JR being paired up with his own box of rocks, Cally. What a waste.

On the other hand … wow, what a pairing JR and strong / vibrant Sue Ellen could've been at that time. When Sue Ellen walked into that WestStar meeting, JR should've gone right over and struck a deal with her on the spot, leaving Kimberly and Nick in the dust. It would've been fun, watching them be business partners (and then with benefits, of course). And by the time the movies and DallasTNT came around, the people in charge finally realized that, too.

 

[Goldie]

And this one is - 'it's all forgotten, please come home...'

SNAP! And that's what I was just talking about in my last post ... their chemistry still popped off the screen when they were together and this scene was an exceptional example. *swoon*

 

[Sarah]

Only if the writing and compelling stories were there. I'm afraid not even the characters of J.R. and Sue Ellen could have saved Dallas from its imminent demise, besides, Linda was let go due to her character running its natural course and no money left in the kitty after Larry was paid his wage.

Linda chose to leave and in an interview with Wogan in 1990, she recalls how Larry begged her to stay.

I've just realised I'm repeating myself

 

[Crazy For Sue Ellen]