Dallas Character Lucy Ewing

[Willie Oleson]

I'm sorry but I just can't see it. Maybe a power struggle at the Hot Biscuit, and even that would feel far-fetched.

I often read these comments like "they didn't give him/her much to do" but sometimes the real problem is when they give that character a plotline just to make him/her more visible - and it's always obvious, and because of that almost never satisfying.
Some characters are more effective when they are delivered in small doses (no pun intended), and I think DALLAS managed to do that with Lucy (I don't remember anything from her return episodes, season 11? 12?)

 

[James from London]

Wondering what people think, sort of a Barbara Hutton meets Katherine Graham.

It doesn't sound much like the Lucy we saw on screen, who was pretty much consistently depicted as an airhead with zero ambition or interest in business. I guess if she were to have found out JR were her daddy, it might have had a profound effect on her, but to turn her into the kind of character you're suggesting, it would have had to have happened quite early on in the series. It's hard to imagine the girl who was manipulated six ways from Sunday during the Alan Beam storyline (which I loved) ever turning into a business brain. Much as I really like Lucy, she ain't no Paige Matheson.

 

[stevew]

It doesn't sound much like the Lucy we saw on screen, who was pretty much consistently depicted as an airhead with zero ambition or interest in business. I guess if she were to have found out JR were her daddy, it might have had a profound effect on her, but to turn her into the kind of character you're suggesting, it would have had to have happened quite early on in the series. It's hard to imagine the girl who was manipulated six ways from Sunday during the Alan Beam storyline (which I loved) ever turning into a business brain. Much as I really like Lucy, she ain't no Paige Matheson.

I think is is the problem, characters not growing, just staying as they are. With that, of course the show eventually wears out, JR only has so much of a span where he can keep doing something interesting. But loosing her grandfather would be scary to her, a wake up and force to take care of herself. She was popular, and with friends around her she could grow up. I’m not saying it’s in character for her to sit behind a desk and run Ewing Oil, but she could have some friends who help her out, like Angela Channing lawyers and husbands. “Well JR, you might be right. I might not be scary. But Joe here, he’s a different sort of creature all together.” Maybe even a brief marriage to Jeremy Wendell could have played the catalyst. The point isn’t even so much Lucy, but that they needed to change the dynamic as events changed, not just JR verses everyone until JR and everyone has burned out.

 

[stevew]

I'm sorry but I just can't see it. Maybe a power struggle at the Hot Biscuit, and even that would feel far-fetched.

I often read these comments like "they didn't give him/her much to do" but sometimes the real problem is when they give that character a plotline just to make him/her more visible - and it's always obvious, and because of that almost never satisfying.
Some characters are more effective when they are delivered in small doses (no pun intended), and I think DALLAS managed to do that with Lucy (I don't remember anything from her return episodes, season 11? 12?)

I’ll agree if they’re only trying to give her something to do it’s not going to work. What I’m talking about is using Jocks death to realign the family. The story is who’s daddy going to side with - sort of right out of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof - hence the fight over Ewing Oil and Jocks will. And while I’m fine with that, there was an opportunity missed to also move the story from that dynamic to JR as head of the family, which he never got to be, maybe modeled after J. Paul Getty and Lucy having to sink or swim. Just an idea.

 

[James from London]

I think is is the problem, characters not growing, just staying as they are. With that, of course the show eventually wears out, JR only has so much of a span where he can keep doing something interesting. But loosing her grandfather would be scary to her, a wake up and force to take care of herself. She was popular, and with friends around her she could grow up. I’m not saying it’s in character for her to sit behind a desk and run Ewing Oil, but she could have some friends who help her out, like Angela Channing lawyers and husbands. “Well JR, you might be right. I might not be scary. But Joe here, he’s a different sort of creature all together.” Maybe even a brief marriage to Jeremy Wendell could have played the catalyst. The point isn’t even so much Lucy, but that they needed to change the dynamic as events changed, not just JR verses everyone until JR and everyone has burned out.

Yes, I see your point. Back in the day, I imagined a scenario where Lucy marries Kit Mainwaring instead of Mitch. After Jock dies and the marriage breaks down, she discovers her granddaddy knew about Kit's predilections all along but encouraged the marriage for business purposes. Disillusioned, Lucy leaves Texas to fritter away her inheritance on shitty men and a jet set lifestyle, occasionally showing up for family occasions with a lousy husband in tow. Maybe she has a kid or two which she leaves at Southfork for Miss Ellie to raise while she travels round "Yurrup" living it up and embarrassing the family. Years later, she returns to Southfork, broke and humbled, to ask JR's forgiveness. Only then does she become a loyal member of the family business, if only as a sort of figurehead. It's basically Connie Corleone's arc from The Godfather movies.

 

[stevew]

Yes, I see your point. Back in the day, I imagined a scenario where Lucy marries Kit Mainwaring instead of Mitch. After Jock dies and the marriage breaks down, she discovers her granddaddy knew about Kit's predilections all along but encouraged the marriage for business purposes. Disillusioned, Lucy leaves Texas to fritter away her inheritance on shitty men and a jet set lifestyle, occasionally showing up for family occasions with a lousy husband in tow. Maybe she has a kid or two which she leaves at Southfork for Miss Ellie to raise while she travels round "Yurrup" living it up and embarrassing the family. Years later, she returns to Southfork, broke and humbled, to ask JR's forgiveness. Only then does she become a loyal member of the family business, if only as a sort of figurehead. It's basically Connie Corleone's arc from The Godfather movies.

Certainly is better than a stagnate character who becomes a Shakespearean ghost in TNT’s Dallas.

I was thinking more of marries someone like Jeremy Wendell and with the help of her friends (men who love and want to take care of the damsel in distress types) she walks away not only handling him but and also her uncle JR. And JR is proud of her, no longer seeing himself as the son but the rightful patriarch of the family.

 

[Ray_Krebbs]

To me it made no sense why J.R. wanted Lucy to be raised at the ranch. I would think he would want her as far as possible. I think the show should have started with Lucy as J.R.'s daughter with first wife Valene, who wound up falling for his brother Gary. When J.R. learned of their affair, he had them both banned from the state of Texas and took Lucy as aggressively as possible. Lucy could have viewed Sue Ellen as the wicked stepmother, and she could have been a bit jealous of John Ross, especially loosing her daddy's attention to a Ewing son.

 

[Laurie Marr]

Many possibilities could have been explored. Tilton, however, could barely utter ‘good morning’ with conviction so I doubt whether she had the range. Even in her classic Lucy guise Tilton had this odd yet persistent habit of being a beat behind the rhythm of the dialogue in every scene she was in. It was strangely endearing, though.

 

[Seaviewer]

To me it made no sense why J.R. wanted Lucy to be raised at the ranch.

I think the rationale was always that she was a blood Ewing which I guess made her in a sense their property but JR's motivation was probably more to please his parents than himself.

 

[Rove]

What was the logic behind taking the baby from Valene? JR wanted her and Gary out of town and yet he takes the person that bonds these people to Southfork.
If there was ever a reason to go back to Southfork - which happened, eventually.
Why would JR want to keep something that reminded them (especially his parents) of his brother? Or did he anticipate that Gary's child would be a good (and safe) substitute for Gary himself? Sort of a consolation prize?

Willie it's a question I've constantly asked both on this forum and of myself over the years. Having Lucy at Southfork from the beginning had me thinking a story was just waiting to be unleashed but never came to fruition. I could never imagine Miss Ellie accepting Lucy arriving onto Southfork as a baby without questioning the whereabouts of Valene or Garry or why they had simply given up on their child. Lucy at Southfork just appeared to be an odd fit. Perhaps there was an idea there but never re-visited.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

In the great Dallas prequel novel by Lee Raintree, JR is Lucy's daddy, but it wasn't rape.

Well, he did rape Holly Harwood and Laurel Ellis.

A case could be made for claiming JR raped Holly, but he didn't rape Laurel. She could have said "no" but chose not to. Clayton found out what happened and as fond as he was of Laurel, even protective of her, Clayton never accused JR of raping Laurel and neither did Laurel, nor did she press charges. She couldn't have because she never said "no." Holly actually did say "no" so that's legally rape although there's a difference between what he did to Holly than some rapist breaking into a woman's home and raping her at gunpoint. Holly actually went on to willingly have sex with JR just a few weeks later. I can't imagine a woman willingly having sex with some thug a few weeks after he beats her up, then rapes her while holding a knife to her throat. It's very different.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

You couldn’t do too much with Lucy because the actress was so limited. Can you imagine Charlene Tilton trying to pull off a story where she is more J.R.-like? Her acting was bad enough during the miniseries, when Lucy was more of a bad girl.

I liked her acting in the first year or two of Dallas. I think that was her best acting that I've seen.

Lucy becoming like JR wouldn't have worked well because her character wasn't of a woman who had the capabilities to become like JR. They could have made her more greedy and money hungry, but she never would have developed the competence to become capable of successfully running an oil company.

 

[stevew]

I liked her acting in the first year or two of Dallas. I think that was her best acting that I've seen.

Lucy becoming like JR wouldn't have worked well because her character wasn't of a woman who had the capabilities to become like JR. They could have made her more greedy and money hungry, but she never would have developed the competence to become capable of successfully running an oil company.

That’s not exactly what I meant like JR. I meant his position within the cast. With Jock gone there was real chance for character growth. Sue Ellen seemed to me to be the only character who did develop (then TNT took it all away). My thought was JR more patriarch (not totally like Jock) and Lucy more greedy, money hungry, power hungry and that kind of thing like JR but not just like him. Some one who has the connections to hire people capable of the day to day running. Someone who isnt going to be hurt anymore, someone who’s going to give back just as nasty as she gets to the world. Maybe marry Jermey Wendell. Maybe divorce him. Maybe find out her father didn’t leave SF because of JR but another enemy of the family. There’s lots of possibilities where her and JRs characters could have grown starting with Jocks death.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

That’s not exactly what I meant like JR. I meant his position within the cast. With Jock gone there was real chance for character growth. Sue Ellen seemed to me to be the only character who did develop (then TNT took it all away). My thought was JR more patriarch (not totally like Jock) and Lucy more greedy, money hungry, power hungry and that kind of thing like JR but not just like him. Some one who has the connections to hire people capable of the day to day running. Someone who isnt going to be hurt anymore, someone who’s going to give back just as nasty as she gets to the world. Maybe marry Jermey Wendell. Maybe divorce him. Maybe find out her father didn’t leave SF because of JR but another enemy of the family. There’s lots of possibilities where her and JRs characters could have grown starting with Jocks death.

OK, so if I understand what you're saying, with Jock's death there would have been an opportunity for JR to have stepped up as the new patriarch of the family and so in that sense he would have been playing something more similar to Jock's role even though he'd still act like JR and be less honest and ethical than Jock had been although with maturity and the loss of his father maybe JR would have at least toned down the most unethical things about his behavior and might have made some attempt to become a better man - one that Jock would have been more proud of. It was always extremely important to JR that his father be proud of him.

With JR being the male head of the household and his mother being the female head of the household there'd be a generation gap between matriarch and patriarch. It could have made Clayton's eventual marriage of Miss Ellie even more uncomfortable for JR and something he may have found even less acceptable than he already considered it to be. I wonder what lengths he may have gone to to make sure that no outsider ever got to sit at Jock's place at the dining room table!

Then with JR having taken on that place in the family, Lucy could have stepped up and filled the role of the most greedy or maybe even most ruthless member of the family and have "made the whole world pay" for growing up without parents as she once claimed she was doing. I think that would have been interesting but it's hard to say if it would have worked or not. With the right storylines and scripts along with a concerted effort on Charlene Tilton's part to expand her range as an actress it might have been very good.

 

[stevew]

OK, so if I understand what you're saying, with Jock's death there would have been an opportunity for JR to have stepped up as the new patriarch of the family and so in that sense he would have been playing something more similar to Jock's role even though he'd still act like JR and be less honest and ethical than Jock had been although with maturity and the loss of his father maybe JR would have at least toned down the most unethical things about his behavior and might have made some attempt to become a better man - one that Jock would have been more proud of. It was always extremely important to JR that his father be proud of him.

With JR being the male head of the household and his mother being the female head of the household there'd be a generation gap between matriarch and patriarch. It could have made Clayton's eventual marriage of Miss Ellie even more uncomfortable for JR and something he may have found even less acceptable than he already considered it to be. I wonder what lengths he may have gone to to make sure that no outsider ever got to sit at Jock's place at the dining room table!

Then with JR having taken on that place in the family, Lucy could have stepped up and filled the role of the most greedy or maybe even most ruthless member of the family and have "made the whole world pay" for growing up without parents as she once claimed she was doing. I think that would have been interesting but it's hard to say if it would have worked or not. With the right storylines and scripts along with a concerted effort on Charlene Tilton's part to expand her range as an actress it might have been very good.

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. JR would have sat in his father’s seat at the Southfork table. JR might even have been impressed with Lucy, after her divorce from Wendell with her friends taking control of West Star she goes after Ewing Oil, already owning a 1/3 and JR couldn’t be more impressed. Maybe she favors John Ross over Christopher telling him one day Southfork will be his, but he’ll have to learn to fight, don’t trust anyone, don’t let anyone hurt you, not even your parents. Maybe she even fights with Miss Ellie having made her father weak. And Bobby who did nothing to protect her. Maybe in time when BBG is ready to leave she convinces her grandmother to sell her SF or some such.

You’re right it might not have worked but trying for character growth I think would have been better than leaving JR the son / brother always loosing in the end.

 

[Rove]

Once Lucy became involved with Mickey I saw the potential for her to be more involved with the running of Southfork but that idea quickly got killed off with the death of Mickey. There was a rumour getting about years ago the writers and producers had big plans for Lucy and Mickey but the extra cost of filming scenes having someone on all fours while Lucy mounted and dismounted a horse meant production costs would skyrocket. Lorimar Productions were having a tough time already paying Larry's exorbitant fee without the additional cost of an extra. So Mickey was killed off. Poor Mickey.

Okay. I just made that last bit up

 

[Karin]

The Lucy & Mickey storyline definitely had potential. I wish they hadn't killed him off so soon. Although it was a great storyline I think it happened a season too early.

 

[Toni]

Someone who isnt going to be hurt anymore, someone who’s going to give back just as nasty as she gets to the world. Maybe marry Jermey Wendell.

Why are you making poor old Lucy a necrophilic...?

 

[stevew]

Why are you making poor old Lucy a necrophilic...?

Jeremy Wendell wasn’t dead at the time and had reason already to go after JR, revealing a long game plan in his fight against JR.

 

[stevew]

The Lucy & Mickey storyline definitely had potential. I wish they hadn't killed him off so soon. Although it was a great storyline I think it happened a season too early.

I agree. I like the idea of her torn between the ranch and good guy Mickey and money and power.