Mary Tyler Moore Show and Its Spin-Offs

[Snarky Oracle!]

True. Cassidy played a similar part in the single season sitcom HE & SHE (1967-68). I've never seen it, but from what I've read about it it seems to have been a failed attempt at what MTM later succeeded at -- continuing the spirit of THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW. Cassidy was offered the role of Ted, but turned it down as being repetitious. When he turned up in the first season of MTM as Ted's brother, he proved why Knight was the better choice; he was funny enough playing dumb and egotistical, but had none of Knight's vulnerability that made Ted endearing.

Second season.

John Anniston, Jennifer's dad, was high on the list for Ted -- a potential romantic foil for Mary. Yikes!

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Season One
Divorce Isn’t Everything / Keep Your Guard Up / Support Your Local Mother / Toulouse-Lautrec Is One Of My Favourite Artists / The Snow Must Go On / Bob and Rhoda and Teddy and Mary / Assistant Wanted, Female / 1040 Or Fight / Anchorman Overboard / He’s All Yours / Christmas And The Hard-Luck Kid II / Howard’s Girl / Party Is Such Sweet Sorrow / Just A Lunch / Second Storey Story / We Closed In Minneapolis



There have been a number of potential almost or actual love-interests for Mary, and the strong suit seems to be adorably awkward type of young man, such as Paul Sand as Mary’s tax auditor* or the ineffectual police officer played by Bob Dishy (warming up for his Columbo role, no doubt, but last seen in O’Dramavision in the opening episode of Maude). Not that it’s ended there: we’ve also had the deep-voiced overconfident swaggering type, such as Monte Markham’s smooth-talking character. Oh, there was also the Sid Fairgate lookalike who I’ve just found out was actually Valerie Harper’s husband.

I do enjoy that neither Mary nor Rhoda has any kind of steady relationship going. Both being freer allows more potential - which is being utilised - and also adds a little edge to the series which keeps it from feeling too safe. On the subject of steady relationships, it was a bit of a surprise to meet Murray’s wife, Marie relatively late in the day. I’d assumed such relatives would be left to the viewer’s imagination, but I do like her. The naming on this series is interesting. One scene had an interaction between Murray, Marie and Mary, which felt as though it broke an unspoken law of television series which requires characters to have names that sound quite different from one another.

As far as regular characters go, it’s an understatement to say everyone has gelled with me. Each serves their role really well and is perfect cast. Incidentally, Murray and Ted both initially reminded me of much characters from early Eighties films: Murray resembled that annoying camp guy in Airplane! who skipped round making commentary and crying out things like “Rapunzel. Rapunzel.” Ted - due to his character’s dependence on idiot boards - reminded me of John Van Horn from Tootsie. While the latter is no bad thing, both Murray and Ted have quickly become characters I enjoy in their own right. Poor Ted’s nervous breakdown after being asked questions at Phyllis’s women’s club was brilliant.

It possibly goes without saying that Lou is always 100% watchable, while Rhoda is great fun on the home front. The scene where she went into Karen mode, invoking her female privilege to ensure the police attended the scene of Mary’s burglary immediately was hilarious (even though, sadly, there’s more than a touch of social truth in it).

The title Christmas And The Hard-Luck Kid II is intriguing since it gave the impression I’d missed something. I’d assumed it was the title of a Christmas-themed film but it seems it comes from an episode of That Girl. I’ve looked up the synopsis and cast and can’t see anything tying the Mary and That Girl episodes more than any number of Christmas specials, so if anyone knows the story behind this one I’d love to know.

As always with a period series, the relative lack of political correctness is enjoyable. There’s nothing offensive here, but the abundance of height gags in the Toulouse-Lautrec episode were more enjoyable for feeling a little off-limits. As it turned out the person in question addressed things directly, diffusing the situation and allowing the series to have its cake and eat it while stopping short of being overly issue-based. Topics like divorce and infidelity also give the series a bit of an edge, even if they're generally only touched on in the most tastefully understated way.

With just five episodes left, it’s likely I’ll finish Season One in the next couple of evenings.

• The idea of doing taxes this way - combing over every receipt from the last year and explaining purchases to someone - looks very intimidating to me. Going by what TV feeds me, these seem commonplace in America which makes me feel relieved that the standard here is to simply add taxes onto the purchase price at the point of sale.

 

[Crimson]

I do enjoy that neither Mary nor Rhoda has any kind of steady relationship going.

I think this is something the producers of MTM held their ground on. Network execs, who had insisted Mary couldn't be a divorcee, also pushed for Mary to have a steady beau. As Snarky notes above, there had even been early consideration of Mary being romantically linked with (a different version of) Ted.

The title Christmas And The Hard-Luck Kid II is intriguing since it gave the impression I’d missed something.

As someone who'd wondered this for years and only recently answered the question -- no you didn't miss anything and there's no canonical connection between MTM and THAT GIRL. The two shows shared some key creative personnel and the title is little more than an inside joke. I mentioned up thread that MTM and Mary Richards were evolutionary in how women were portrayed on American TV. Women were generally shown as contented housewives, like Laura Petrie. But in the late Sixties, there were a few shows that started to explore the idea of single women in the workplace -- THAT GIRL being one of them -- even if they were limited by the mustiness of the TV era.

The idea of doing taxes this way - combing over every receipt from the last year and explaining purchases to someone - looks very intimidating to me. Going by what TV feeds me, these seem commonplace in America which makes me feel relieved that the standard here is to simply add taxes onto the purchase price at the point of sale.

I assume that's an old-timey thing, or just a TV contrivance like the swinging kitchen doors. I spend about 8 minutes doing my taxes.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I think this is something the producers of MTM held their ground on. Network execs, who had insisted Mary couldn't be a divorcee, also pushed for Mary to have a steady beau.

I mentioned up thread that MTM and Mary Richards were evolutionary in how women were portrayed on American TV. Women were generally shown as contented housewives, like Laura Petrie. But in the late Sixties, there were a few shows that started to explore the idea of single women in the workplace -- THAT GIRL being one of them -- even if they were limited by the mustiness of the TV era.

Yes, given the context of the time I can see how it would be viewed as fine for the men to have swinging singles pads while "nubile young woman"="steady relationship".

Curiously in an episode I've watched this week, Mary herself almost endorsed this view. I forget the exact wording, but there was a scene where she was speaking to Lou about her ambitions and it pretty much came down to marriage and motherhood. Like Mary's panic when left in charge in an early episode, I'm guessing (and hoping) this is all part of a long game to show Mary's growth as the seasons progress.

As someone who'd wondered this for years and only recently answered the question -- no you didn't miss anything and there's no canonical connection between MTM and THAT GIRL. The two shows shared some key creative personnel and the title is little more than an inside joke.

Thanks for confirming. I'm glad it wasn't just me who had that question.

I assume that's an old-timey thing, or just a TV contrivance like the swinging kitchen doors. I spend about 8 minutes doing my taxes.

Oh my. Another example of TV giving me duff cultural information.

 

[Daniel Avery]

The idea of doing taxes this way - combing over every receipt from the last year and explaining purchases to someone - looks very intimidating to me. Going by what TV feeds me, these seem commonplace in America which makes me feel relieved that the standard here is to simply add taxes onto the purchase price at the point of sale.

Most people who get audited are flagged in the system because the numbers don't add up, or maybe they've taken way too many liberties in declaring dependents, donations to charity, or their income. They may still pick a few at random for audit, but typically they only take the time to do this if they have good evidence of fraud and want the person to "show their receipts" (hence the modern term). This has become a stock sitcom plot (to have a main character get audited) because of the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude of IRS agents and the myriad of jokes a writer can come up with concerning how poorly someone can fill out their tax returns.

And this is all done over our Income taxes, not sales tax (which, as you reference, is taken automatically). The US existed longer without Income Tax than it has with it, but unfortunately the government is so addicted to spending money that the Income Taxes are likely here to stay just like Sales Taxes (and any other ones the government can invent).

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Most people who get audited are flagged in the system because the numbers don't add up, or maybe they've taken way too many liberties in declaring dependents, donations to charity, or their income. They may still pick a few at random for audit, but typically they only take the time to do this if they have good evidence of fraud and want the person to "show their receipts" (hence the modern term).

Thanks for the context with this one .

This has become a stock sitcom plot (to have a main character get audited) because of the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude of IRS agents and the myriad of jokes a writer can come up with concerning how poorly someone can fill out their tax returns.

I remember an early Will & Grace episode where Jack was in trouble with the IRS (but in his case he was more clearly guilty as he'd refused to pay, believing it was optional).

And this is all done over our Income taxes, not sales tax

And this makes much more sense to me now.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Season One
Hi! / The Boss Isn’t Coming To Dinner / A Friend In Deed / Smokey The Bear Wants You / The 45-Year-Old Man



Any episode that includes some kind of crisis for Lou is a good one. These final episodes of the season feature two of them: first one where Lou and his wife separate; then one where The Powers That Be at WJM decide to sack Lou. Each takes a similar approach in which Lou is stoical while the team in the outer office works to try and fix the situation (or Lou himself). As a result, each builds the strength of the work-based ensemble and shows how important each player is. In particular it also shows how valued Mary herself has become. She’s almost like a daughter to Lou and a sister to Murray (and perhaps even Ted). Ed Asner does great work with this side of things and it’s easy to see why his own series would be more drama than comedy.

A couple of bizarre little “did they think we wouldn’t notice?” things occurred in these episodes. First, Mary’s long-forgotten friend from camp, Twinks, is played by Patte Finley who previously appeared in the divorce club episode. Stuff like this happens all the time, but Finley herself has a very distinctive look, sound and delivery and (from what I’ve seen in these episodes) is pretty much a one trick pony. Certainly watching at this pace having her play two almost-identical characters in one season seems quite poorly thought out.

The second thing was even more bizarre. When Mary pays a visit to the eccentric cowboy who owns WJM to try and save Lou’s job, his place is very clearly Mary’s apartment set. The same painted wood slats, bare brick section and multi-level setup are very clearly visible. Even that shag pile carpet is present and correct. Granted, the set is filled with Western paraphernalia), but the only real concession towards pretending this isn’t a repurposed set is throwing a curtain over the main entrance door to the apartment set and having Mary enter from Stage Right (where the kitchen would be). This happened in the very last episode, and if sets had been so repurposed up to this point I hadn’t noticed. It’s a shame this move gave a sourly distracting note to the final episode. During the scene I even ended up having a conversation as I wasn’t sure if the Western bloke was meant to have moved in with Mary.

Then there was Michael Callan who was the right kind of distracting. Most of the male suitors in this series have a certain spark that strikes the perfect balance of appeal and accessibility. For this viewer, anyway.

Oh, and Ursula showed up, with Pat Carroll’s Loretta sharing a ward with Mary. As I get older, it’s perhaps a little worrying that I increasingly identify with grouch characters (I’m currently watching Brookside, and that series’ infamously grumpy old man character, Harry Cross, is someone I now view as “us” rather than “them”), and I have to take ownership of the fact that I, like Loretta, would find myself irritated if I had a roommate who liked to talk.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Always thought that MTM was an underrated actress.
Along with husband Grant Tinker, they founded MTM Enterprises which was quite successful

MTM Enterprises - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Her basic character/function was "straight man" in the MTM show.
This was a great creative decision because
Ted Knight, Ed Asner, Gavin McLeod, Valerie Harper, Cloris Leachman and Betty White,
all major talents,
had great material to work, and they became inevitable "scene-stealers"
It was quite generous of MTM as a star, and her cast was quite complementary to her as a result,
and the chemistry was evident on camera

 

[Crimson]

Mary’s long-forgotten friend from camp, Twinks, is played by Patte Finley who previously appeared in the divorce club episode. Stuff like this happens all the time, but Finley herself has a very distinctive look, sound and delivery and (from what I’ve seen in these episodes) is pretty much a one trick pony.

Someone at MTM productions really liked Patte Finley, apparently. Aside from her two appearances on MTM, she was a semi-regular on THE BOB NEWHART SHOW; no "in universe" connection to MTM show, but produced by MTM productions. Finley also turned up on LOU GRANT three times, playing different characters over a 2 year period. One actress playing 5 characters in the same continuity!

That said, the choice for her to play two characters on MTM that were so similar appears to have been a specific choice. Her persona on TBNS was completely different. Until I looked at IMDB, I didn't even realize it was the same actress.

 

[Daniel Avery]

his place is very clearly Mary’s apartment set

If it was indeed the last episode filmed that season*, it might be something as simple as....they ran out of money. As it was a new show, the network might not have given them the same sort of budget they'd get once they were an established hit, and by the end of the season they might have spent what they had. Have you noticed how many American sitcoms do "clip shows" for their final episodes some seasons? That's typically a sign they ran out of money, too.

* Sometimes sitcoms film out of order, or (more often) producers might decide to air them in a different order for whatever reason.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If it was indeed the last episode filmed that season*, it might be something as simple as....they ran out of money. As it was a new show, the network might not have given them the same sort of budget they'd get once they were an established hit, and by the end of the season they might have spent what they had. Have you noticed how many American sitcoms do "clip shows" for their final episodes some seasons? That's typically a sign they ran out of money, too.

* Sometimes sitcoms film out of order, or (more often) producers might decide to air them in a different order for whatever reason.

Although it shouldn't impact the writing. "The 45-year Old Man" (although Ed Asner was only 41) has a loud, desperate, unfunny vibe to it that feels very "stuck on" at the end of the first season -- and smells vaguely like a bad, late-'60s sitcom in that way. (The episode with Bill Daily as a hapless politician has a comparable vibe).

Whenever I run across it in reruns (although I have the DVDs) I groan a little bit and may switch it off. Yet it also has a sweetly bustling, empty-finale atmosphere to it. So it depends on my mood.

Yes, Slim Pickens' abode surely could have been better disguised. Unless they were trying to tell us -- gently, for 1971 -- that Mary and the station owner were shacking up.

 

[Crimson]

(The episode with Bill Daily as a hapless politician has a comparable vibe)

Backdoor pilots are always so clunky. And fortunately this one failed, or Bill might not have been free to join THE BOB NEWHART SHOW.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Backdoor pilots are always so clunky. And fortunately this one failed, or Bill might not have been free to join THE BOB NEWHART SHOW.

See, I didn't know it was a backdoor pilot. But it certainly feels that way.

Although I admit to finding Daily more irritating on TBHS than anything. I watched TBNS and liked its '70s ambiance, more or less, but the humor was just a wee bit soft for my tastes, given the premise --- can't we make more raucous fun of the mentally ill than the revolving door of unfocused neurotics who ran through his office?

 

[Seaviewer]

the humor was just a wee bit soft for my tastes, given the premise --- can't we make more raucous fun of the mentally ill than the revolving door of unfocused neurotics who ran through his office?

Well, we could but then it would not be Bob Newhart.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Well, we could but then it would not be Bob Newhart.

Maybe. But in his '80s show, Michael & Stephanie (whom I initially liked, and their casting) became so overly drawn it was OTT -- of course, NEWHART was more OTT than THE BOB NEWHART SHOW to begin with.

I just didn't get a lot of laughs from his psychiatric patients. For that matter, Jerry the dentist and Bill Daily were lamely unfunny as well. Only Bob himself -- and the secretary Carol -- were even mildly amusing. (Suzanne Pleshette acted her part better than Mary Frann did later).

,,,and I watched THE BOB NEWHART SHOW every week -- and in reruns!

 

[Daniel Avery]

For that matter, Jerry the dentist and Bill Daily were lamely unfunny as well. Only Bob himself -- and the secretary Carol -- were even mildly amusing.

After Richard Dawson left Match Game to host Family Feud, they brought Bill Daily in to sit in RD's old seat a lot. He was just as lamely unfunny there as well, never really playing the game very well, either, but I guess he had a lot of time on his hands after BHS ended. They'd often have Marcia Wallace on at the same time (seated next to Daily) and she could give some great/witty answers. You got a much better idea of what the actors in that period were like in real life by seeing how they behaved on game shows and other places where they're "out of character".

 

[Crimson]

the humor was just a wee bit soft for my tastes, given the premise --- can't we make more raucous fun of the mentally ill than the revolving door of unfocused neurotics who ran through his office?

Perhaps what you wanted was not so much a sitcom about a psychologist as one set in an insane asylum

I liked the cast of TBNS just fine, except Jerry the dentist; Howard was best in small doses.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Bob seemed to be a sort of life coach before the term gained more popularity.
The show was must see tv because of - Suzanne Pleshette!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Perhaps what you wanted was not so much a sitcom about a psychologist as one set in an insane asylum

I liked the cast of TBNS just fine, except Jerry the dentist; Howard was best in small doses.

Well, I liked the ambiance of the show enough to watch consistently over the years -- Bob, Carol (in particular) and Emily were funny-ish.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Co-creator/executive producer Allan Burns said (I think, as opposed to James L. Brooks) that after they completed the pilot script, they wrote across the cover page "...And May God Bless It."

Perhaps not doing so is what doomed that Carrington show.