Miss Ellie's treatment of Sue Ellen

[CeeCee72]

Ellie was shown to be close to both Pam and Donna. She even had a soft spot for Jenna. But she never seemed to care much for Sue Ellen at all.


Early in the show, it was made clear that JR's affairs were an open secret among the family. Ellie had JR and Sue Ellen living under her roof. She saw the abuse and mistreatment. She only tried to intervene twice, and then it was only because Sue Ellen's drunkenness was affecting HER life.


At different times, Ellie was critical of Sue Ellen for being too supportive of JR AND of being critical of her for not being supportive enough. She ripped Sue Ellen for drinking but never batted an eye about the amount of booze sitting around in the open at Southfork.


She was shown to be happy when JR and Sue Ellen remarried, but I wonder if that had more to do with getting John Ross back at Southfork than her actually being glad to have Sue Ellen back in the family.


The one thing that sticks out in my mind the most though was how she behaved when BD Calhoun kidnapped Sue Ellen.

1. Pam was clearly worried about Sue Ellen not being home for dinner and not calling, but Ellie actively discouraged Pam from looking for her with her flippant "Sue Ellen can take care of herself" remark.
2. Clearly though, Ellie did NOT believe that Sue Ellen could take care of herself. Once she found out Sue Ellen never made it home, she immediately assumed she had been out drinking.
3. When Sue Ellen finally did make it home, Ellie refused to believe she hadn't been drinking. She wouldn't even listen. Pam is the only one who showed Sue Ellen a bit of empathy, even after Sue Ellen pointed out that JR hadn't come home the night before either. Ellie just shook her head, said it was sad, let Pam take Sue Ellen out of sight, and walked away.

I get that with Sue Ellen's history, it was logical to ASSUME Sue Ellen was drinking again. But it seems to me that if it had been any other of her daughters-in-law, Ellie would have shown a little concern that something bad might have happened to her.


A lot of threads on this forum discuss Sue Ellen not being "loyal" to the Ewings. I guess I just sometimes wonder why Sue Ellen owed any of them loyalty. None of them ever supported her when she needed it - and Miss Ellie specifically seemed to be cold, critical, and dismissive of her.


Just wondering if others got the same sense or if I am way off base.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I'm not a big defender of Sue Ellen and have always viewed most of her problems as self-induced, but Miss Ellie was nothing if not passive-aggressive.

"Oh, Swellllin --- Paaaaaaam would never let something like this happen to her..."

 

[Chris2]

Well, Pam was the daughter Ellie always wanted. And Sue Ellen…wasn’t.

Or did Pam dream that? I do seem to recall Ellie not giving a f*ck when Pam crashed into the 18-wheeler.

 

[CeeCee72]

Or did Pam dream that? I do seem to recall Ellie not giving a f*ck when Pam crashed into the 18-wheeler.

You know, I never thought about that, but you're right. Ellie wasn't broken up at all, either about the accident or about Pam disappearing from the hospital.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

All good points. However, in the dream season when Sue Ellen went on her extreme bender after Bobby died, Miss Ellie was the voice of compassion and spearheaded the effort to find and help Sue Ellen.
Of course, I basically just confirmed the point of this thread. That happened in Pam's dream, so it was really Pam's compassion projected on to Miss Ellie.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

You know, I never thought about that, but you're right. Ellie wasn't broken up at all, either about the accident or about Pam disappearing from the hospital.

Even JR, of all people, seemed more upset about Pam's apocalyptic crash. But the series wanted to minimize the impact (as it were) of Pam's exit, as the writing began gradually becoming less and less character oriented.

 

[Billy Wall]

There was MANY times Miss Ellie went to bat for Sue Ellen. When the show 1st started, I felt her and Sue Ellen actually bonded quite well.

And who can forget the “Well, you’ve destroyed her again, WILL YOU EVER LEARN?!?!” Scene with JR.

Miss Ellie even didn’t get mad when a drunken Sue Ellen was talking about plans of taking over Southfork. When Jock WAS IN THE HOSPITAL!!! Most people would have laid into Sue Ellen. Not Miss Ellie.

And you’re not telling the whole story when Sue Ellen and John Ross were at the Farlows. Miss Ellie specifically told JR that “John Ross needs his mother, not me or the maid and for him to see you a few minutes a day. I want John Ross back here, but only with Sue Ellen.”

I said the same thing about JR and I’ll say it about Sue Ellen. Particularly in the beginning, Sue Ellen was not an easy person to like. Case in point, she sleeps with Ray Krebbs and the next morning when Ray brings it up to her, her response “I don’t know what you’re talking about Mr Krebbs.” The early Sue Ellen was something else. Lol

 

[CeeCee72]

There was MANY times Miss Ellie went to bat for Sue Ellen. When the show 1st started, I felt her and Sue Ellen actually bonded quite well.

And who can forget the “Well, you’ve destroyed her again, WILL YOU EVER LEARN?!?!” Scene with JR.

Miss Ellie even didn’t get mad when a drunken Sue Ellen was talking about plans of taking over Southfork. When Jock WAS IN THE HOSPITAL!!! Most people would have laid into Sue Ellen. Not Miss Ellie.

And you’re not telling the whole story when Sue Ellen and John Ross were at the Farlows. Miss Ellie specifically told JR that “John Ross needs his mother, not me or the maid and for him to see you a few minutes a day. I want John Ross back here, but only with Sue Ellen.”

I said the same thing about JR and I’ll say it about Sue Ellen. Particularly in the beginning, Sue Ellen was not an easy person to like. Case in point, she sleeps with Ray Krebbs and the next morning when Ray brings it up to her, her response “I don’t know what you’re talking about Mr Krebbs.” The early Sue Ellen was something else. Lol

All good points.

Maybe the problem is just the writers weren't consistent regarding the relationships between the characters.

I guess maybe the reason I hold Ellie's actions during the Calhoun thing against her so much is that Sue Ellen was a different person by the time that happened. But you're right, there are a few times Ellie took up for her.

 

[CeeCee72]

Even JR, of all people, seemed more upset about Pam's apocalyptic crash. But the series wanted to minimize the impact (as it were) of Pam's exit, as the writing began gradually becoming less and less character oriented.

That's probably true. Other than a throw away scene about why JR didn't think Sue Ellen should go to the hospital to see Pam, we didn't get a lot of emotion from Sue Ellen either. Which is odd considering how close Sue Ellen and Pam were at that time.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I think Miss Ellie definitely cared about Sue Ellen very deeply, but their relationship was obviously more strained than her relationships with Pam and Donna. I think Miss Ellie was of the mindset that no matter what happened to Sue Ellen and no matter who was at fault, going back to the bottle was inexcusable. She wanted her to be stronger than that, but for years that obviously wasn’t the case.

 

[CeeCee72]

I think Miss Ellie definitely cared about Sue Ellen very deeply, but their relationship was obviously more strained than her relationships with Pam and Donna. I think Miss Ellie was of the mindset that no matter what happened to Sue Ellen and no matter who was at fault, going back to the bottle was inexcusable. She wanted her to be stronger than that, but for years that obviously wasn’t the case.

You're right.

Guess I just think it's asinine that JR gets a pass in that scene for being out all night.

Only one thing made Sue Ellen drink - JR's abuse.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Only one thing made Sue Ellen drink - JR's abuse.

So she has no responsibility for her own actions at all?

 

[CeeCee72]

So she has no responsibility for her own actions at all?

Of course she does. All I am saying is Ellie was aware of JR's role in all of it and one would think she would have dinged him a bit.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Of course she does. All I am saying is Ellie was aware of JR's role in all of it and one would think she would have dinged him a bit.

When Sue Ellen runs out of the house drunk -- and to JR's car, and Ellie tells him that he's "destroyed her again" and rushes towards him and shouts "don't you ever learn??", I always want JR to snap, "mind your own damn business, Mama!", and then have Miss Ellie haul off and slap him, JR falling back against the grandfather clock which we hear smash-chiming away as Sue Ellen slips out of the sliding glass door.

But Katzman would never, ever allow Miss Ellie to smack JR -- not even once, ever.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

When Sue Ellen runs out of the house drunk -- and to JR's car, and Ellie tells him that he's "destroyed her again" and rushes towards him and shouts "don't you ever learn??", I always want JR to snap, "mind your own damn business, Mama!", and then have Miss Ellie haul off and slap him, JR falling back against the grandfather clock which we hear smash-chiming away as Sue Ellen slips out of the sliding glass door.

But Katzman would never, ever allow Miss Ellie to smack JR -- not even once, ever.

Yeah I agree Miss Ellie should've slapped JR in the face!

A crying shame that she never did! A pity Katzman couldn't see the entertainment value in having JR smacked in the face by his Mother.

 

[tommie]

Miss Ellie, being passive-aggressive. Must be Tuesday.

 

[Mustard]

Miss Ellie doesn't like Sue Ellen's passing the buck when she's at fault, nor her snobbishness.

 

[Mustard]

Of course she does. All I am saying is Ellie was aware of JR's role in all of it and one would think she would have dinged him a bit.

So why, when I'm watching much of the early seasons of Dallas, I often agree with J.R. when he's arguing with Sue Ellen? Frankly, by the time the series begins, it's obvious that the happier days of their marriage were in the past. Sue Ellen is very jealous of Pam and Bobby's relationship, and sees Pam as just a trashy girl anyway, whom she grows to admire later for Pam's strength of character.

 

[Billy Wall]

So why, when I'm watching much of the early seasons of Dallas, I often agree with J.R. when he's arguing with Sue Ellen? Frankly, by the time the series begins, it's obvious that the happier days of their marriage were in the past. Sue Ellen is very jealous of Pam and Bobby's relationship, and sees Pam as just a trashy girl anyway, whom she grows to admire later for Pam's strength of character.

It’s implied that JR was a bad husband from the start. Miss Ellie once told him “You neglected that girl from the moment you brought her into this house, and sometimes you weren’t even discreet about it.”

 

[Mustard]

It’s implied that JR was a bad husband from the start. Miss Ellie once told him “You neglected that girl from the moment you brought her into this house, and sometimes you weren’t even discreet about it.”

J.R. always had affairs, and was probably reluctant to schmooze with Sue Ellen in public even in the best days of their relationship. He's certainly a bit of a conservative when it comes to romance, or at least the public aspect of it, i.e. what is perceived. Yet they do still have a strong intense spark in their chemistry, J.R. and Sue Ellen, at times.

The real issue with Sue Ellen is how she obediently followed what she was raised to be by her mother when it came to romance and a husband. It resulted in Sue Ellen having serious issues with low self-esteem when J.R. wouldn't react the way that she wanted him to react. Strong women have strong confidence in themselves and who they are, and that can be hard to be if you're raised the way that Sue Ellen was.