Non-Alphabetical Opening Credits?

[Swellin]

How do you think the cast would have been placed if the opening credits if they were not in alphabetical order? My placement orderfor years 83-87 :

• Larry Hagman
• Patrick Duffy
• Linda Gray
• Victoria Principal
• Ken Kercheval
• Steve Kanaly
• Susan Howard
• Charlene Tilton
• Howard Keel
• Priscilla Presley
• And Barbara Bel Geddes (Donna Reed) as Miss Ellie

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

The happy coincidence of the alphabetical billing is that Bel Geddes and Jim Davis were up front. Old folks first, please!

 

[Bobby Southworth]

I remember trying this once upon a time..possibly for just about every season. It's interesting how originally, Hagman was not thought to be the star, so for the first 2-3 seasons, it very well could have been "starring, Victoria Principal." Then I think It would have become "starring Larry Hagman" starting with the 4th season, and possibly "and Victoria Principal", as that billing is also usually, or sometimes used to bill an actor who is almost in line with, but not quite on par with the actual star. It's a little confusing because sometimes the "and" quite simply just means "lastly".

Dallas would have been a pain in the butt to figure out where everyone would fall into place, especially once more characters were added in the 8th season intro.

It's also hard knowing exactly where to place people like Barbara and Howard Keel because they were Hollywood royalty, but they didn't necessarily have huge parts in the series, at least not compared to the two main couples, and Cliff. So, how do you figure out their places in the credits- based on legacy, or the size/type of the role they are currently playing? This is where I do like the idea of using an "and" as @Swellin did for Barbara, but I think maybe a "featuring" or "with" would have worked.

 

[Monzo]

As for season 1 (or miniseries), my order would be:

Jim Davis
Barbara Bel Geddes
Larry Hagman
Patrick Duffy
Victoria Principal
Charlene Tilton

From then on, I would have handled it the way Grey's Anatomy still does today: newcomers are listed last and move up over the years as veteran actors leave the show. That way, actors whose names appear early in the alphabet—like Morgan Brittany and John Beck—would have had the chance to move up in the opening credits. As for the returning actors, I would do the same thing as in Grey's Anatomy and place them back where they were before, so in season 12 Charlene Tilton between Patrick Duffy and Linda Gray.

In season 13, I always found it odd to see Kimberly Foster and Lesley-Anne Down listed before Larry Hagman in the opening credits. Perhaps the new title sequence would have had more flair if the new cast members had been placed at the end. Season 13 might have been the right time to feature actors in the opening credits for only a short stint—like on Dynasty—such as Michael Wilding or Gayle Hunnicutt as well as Susan Lucci and Barbara Eden in season 14.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Actors have contracts, and agents negotiate billing based on various criteria. The original "in alphabetical order" billing offered by Lorimar was very sensible, because it prevented the actors' reps from going nuts with billing demands and adjustments as DALLAS exploded into a global phenomenon never seen before.

 

[Toni]

How do you think the cast would have been placed if the opening credits if they were not in alphabetical order? My placement orderfor years 83-87 :

• Larry Hagman
• Patrick Duffy
• Linda Gray
• Victoria Principal
• Ken Kercheval
• Steve Kanaly
• Susan Howard
• Charlene Tilton
• Howard Keel
• Priscilla Presley
• And Barbara Bel Geddes (Donna Reed) as Miss Ellie

Priscilla who?!

As for season 1 (or miniseries), my order would be:

Jim Davis
Barbara Bel Geddes
Larry Hagman
Patrick Duffy
Victoria Principal
Charlene Tilton

From then on, I would have handled it the way Grey's Anatomy still does today: newcomers are listed last and move up over the years as veteran actors leave the show. That way, actors whose names appear early in the alphabet—like Morgan Brittany and John Beck—would have had the chance to move up in the opening credits.

In season 13, I always found it odd to see Kimberly Foster and Lesley-Anne Down listed before Larry Hagman in the opening credits. Perhaps the new title sequence would have had more flair if the new cast members had been placed at the end. Season 13 might have been the right time to feature actors in the opening credits for only a short stint—like on Dynasty—such as Michael Wilding or Gayle Hunnicutt as well as Susan Lucci and Barbara Eden in season 14.

Gayle who!!!!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

And starring, as Muriel Gilles....

 

[Billy Wall]

I always wondered if Charlene Tilton's last name began with an A, would they had really went with alphabetical order? Lol

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I always wondered if Charlene Tilton's last name began with an A, would they had really went with alphabetical order? Lol

Correct. They'd've done something else.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

a few years in I would have liked to have seen a special interlude after the main cast, beginning at pianissimo volume, then a crescendo into a dramatic key change and the triumphant reemergence of the theme: “and extra special star: Paul Sorensen as The Dynamic Andy Bradley” - with Andy getting two or three full choruses of the theme, seen in the three panels sitting or standing in meetings and generally agreeing with whatever Jordan or Marilee is saying, before the closing fanfare and shot of Southfork.

 

[Michelle Stevens]

The first season or two the alphabetical works the best as no one knew who was going to rise as the real star of the series. Everyone was even going in. I guess no one made an issue of it over time and it just stayed in alphabetical order.

 

[Willie Oleson]

How do you think the cast would have been placed if the opening credits if they were not in alphabetical order? My placement orderfor years 83-87 :

• Larry Hagman
• Patrick Duffy
• Linda Gray
• Victoria Principal
• Ken Kercheval
• Steve Kanaly
• Susan Howard
• Charlene Tilton
• Howard Keel
• Priscilla Presley
• And Barbara Bel Geddes (Donna Reed) as Miss Ellie

I'd still have BBG as the first actor, and then Howard Keel as the "closing" actor.
However, I consider Charlene Tilton a major selling point therefore it feels wrong to remove her credit from that iconic position, a position she shares with Joan Van Ark, and also Joan Collins, Susan Sullivan and Barbara Stanwyck a.k.a. The Queens Of The Closing Credits.

 

[Toni]

I think the original order of the stars´ images (from season 3 on) was perfect, as much as the rest of the show opening, including the background choices, the grandiose theme and the three-split titles. That was magic, and it got tarnished when Presley and Reed were included in season 8. Actually, and unsurprisingly, it coincides with the most classic, awesome seasons.

​

 

[CeeCee72]

How do you think the cast would have been placed if the opening credits if they were not in alphabetical order? My placement orderfor years 83-87 :

• Larry Hagman
• Patrick Duffy
• Linda Gray
• Victoria Principal
• Ken Kercheval
• Steve Kanaly
• Susan Howard
• Charlene Tilton
• Howard Keel
• Priscilla Presley
• And Barbara Bel Geddes (Donna Reed) as Miss Ellie

I think this is probably the most correct order, although I would flip Linda and Victoria.

 

[KayLloyd]

Correct. They'd've done something else.

I doubt that, the credits would still have been alphabetical, as was Knots Landing's credits. Alec Baldwin's acting didn't even come close to Devane, Harris, Lee, Mills, and Van Ark, but he was still ahead of them in the credits.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I doubt that, the credits would still have been alphabetical, as was Knots Landing's credits. Alec Baldwin's acting didn't even come close to Devane, Harris, Lee, Mills, and Van Ark, but he was still ahead of them in the credits.

But KNOTS isn't DALLAS. And DALLAS came first.

 

[KayLloyd]

I always wondered if Charlene Tilton's last name began with an A, would they had really went with alphabetical order? Lol

Yes, they would have. It was just luck of the draw that the two oldest veteran actors had last names at the beginning of the alphabet and the youngest inexperienced actor had a last name towards the end.

But KNOTS isn't DALLAS. And DALLAS came first.

Still the same creator, who likely recommended that alphabetical credits for both shows was the fairest way to go and keep egos in check.

The first season or two the alphabetical works the best as no one knew who was going to rise as the real star of the series. Everyone was even going in. I guess no one made an issue of it over time and it just stayed in alphabetical order.

Right, everyone was even and it was best to keep it that way.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Still the same creator, who likely recommended that alphabetical credits for both shows was the fairest way to go and keep egos in check.

But the spin-off issue probably impacted the decision. And the billing issues probably would have been worked out by Lorimar (as opposed to Jacobs).

And it worked out well for DALLAS (and the fact that the senior cast members, BBG and Jim Davis, came first alphabetically, was a nice fortuitous element). So they used it for KNOTS.

Also, DALLAS was about, primarily, a nuclear family. Eldest first just sits better. KNOTS was about a community, and familial status didn't seem to matter.

And, obviously, it keeps the agents at bay. Over on Lorimar-less DYNASTY, Catherine Oxenberg's reps were asking for all sorts of nutsy stuff which wasn't realistic, leading to her expulsion in 1986.

 

[KayLloyd]

How do you think the cast would have been placed if the opening credits if they were not in alphabetical order? My placement orderfor years 83-87 :

• Larry Hagman
• Patrick Duffy
• Linda Gray
• Victoria Principal
• Ken Kercheval
• Steve Kanaly
• Susan Howard
• Charlene Tilton
• Howard Keel
• Priscilla Presley
• And Barbara Bel Geddes (Donna Reed) as Miss El

But the spin-off issue probably impacted the decision. And the billing issues probably would have been worked out by Lorimar (as opposed to Jacobs).

And it worked out well for DALLAS (and the fact that the senior cast members, BBG and Jim Davis, came first alphabetically, was a nice fortuitous element). So they used it for KNOTS.

Also, DALLAS was about, primarily, a nuclear family. Eldest first just sits better. KNOTS was about a community, and familial status didn't seem to matter.

And, obviously, it keeps the agents at bay. Over on Lorimar-less DYNASTY, Catherine Oxenberg's reps were asking for all sorts of nutsy stuff which wasn't realistic, leading to her expulsion in 1986.

Could be, but regardless of the reason, they made the right call to do alphabetical credits on both Dallas and KL.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

So, I tried this once for fun.. I would just look up the old thread, but I'm not sure how far back that is, or if it's even still here,

So...just for fun because we all know it really comes down to the actor's respective agent, as to how these things actually are worked out , but here goes.

Mini Series/Season 1
Victoria Principal
Patrick Duffy
Larry Hagman
Barbara Bel Geddes
Charlene Tilton

Season Two-Victoria Principal
Patrick Duffy
Larry Hagman
Linda Gray
Barbara Bel Geddes
Jim Davis
Steve Kanaly
Charlene Tilton

Please feel free to make your own lists, critique mine..whatever the case may be. Also, if anyone would rather I start this as a separate thread, just let me know.