Rove
Telly Talk Warrior
A shame. Has David ever spoken publicly about the Dream Season resolution?
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Again, he, Jacobs, said he'd have used another explanation, pointing out that people were very emotional about Bobby's death, so something as perfunctory as the explanation used was bound to create a problem.
But he was seemingly watching his words, probably to avoid being disrespectful to Katzman.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rove
Telly Talk Warrior
I can picture David sitting on the Knots Landing lot and thinking...That's a mess of their doing.
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
I think the issue with the dream resolution is that it ended up effecting the entire show and not in a good way - while solutions like "Bobby was in a witness program" would've been ridiculous, it least wouldn't have wiped away all the other plots along with it that viewers might've invested in. While Bobby implausably returning via witness protection/being kidnapped etc would've been mocked, I don't think it would've had the lasting negative impact that the dream resolution had.
Toni
Maximum Member
Knowing him (them), probably a brain virus...because the storylines of KL were flawless and original. Al. Ways.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Precisely right. Which is why the witness protection scenario, though flawed, was the only feasible option, and likely the one Jacobs would have used.
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
I think a lot of people are focused on there being a "good" way to re-introduce Bobby and in all honesty, there just wasn't. The moment they decided to show Bobby flatlining there was no wiggle room for them to give a decent explanation as to why he'd be back. At best they could've focused on "how do we bring back Bobby without wrecking the rest of the show" and obviously they choose just to entirely wipe an entire seasons worth of stories instead, possibly due to pettiness on their part.
You could argue that as far as the situation being "no good solutions" they choose the worst one.
Seaviewer
Telly Talk Warrior
He might not have had a specific one in mind. Just the fact that it would be hard to come up with a worse one.
Rove
Telly Talk Warrior
In hindsight that pettiness is now so obvious it can be seen from space. Still. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Lenny and his new crew sat down and drummed up Bobby's return. I bet there were a lot of broken pencils...either as a result of frustration or arguments.
No kidding : it's such a genius idea. Bobby was hit by Katherine's car, he's rushed to the hospital, his family comes to see him. He see them, but is too weak to talk, and goes into a coma. And then starts the dream, the one where he's saying goodbye to them and dies... Then we have the dream season, and at the end of it, as Steven said, instead of Pam seeing Bobby in the shower, we see Bobby in the hospital, opening his eyes. The dream is over. He's not dead.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
I don't think it's exactly genuis idea, but as I said earlier - no option really was. At least Bobby makes more sense (especially since we had those scenes with Katherine in Swan Song, which did or did not happen in reality?), plus I assume they could explain why "Ben Stivers" appeared in his dream by having Wes Parmalee visiting him while in a coma.
Grangehill1
Telly Talk Fan
I’ve said it before. The problem was the cliffhanger with Bobby in the shower. Leonard Katzman returned to the show at the end of season 9 (dvd) and in a rush to get a good cliffhanger out somebody must have said let’s stick Bobby in the shower (and then next season say it was all a dream.) great! Brilliant! What an amazing cliffhanger. Indeed if Dallas would have ended with Bobby in the shower it would probably have been one of the greatest ever endings to a tv show.
But If they’d have waited. Cut the shower scene and just waited after completion of season 9 and the cliffhangers would have ended with sue ellen being blown up or/and mark being found dead - if they’d have waited it would have given the team some breathing space to think about how to bring Patrick back. A bit more time at least. Bobby could have been reintroduced slowly at the beginning of season 10.
The shower scene must have been thought up so quickly - that was the problem that boxed them into the dream resolution.
And even if they suddenly had a rethink after it had transmitted, no other explanation to bring Bobby back (evil twin, woke again at the hospital morgue and been in hiding) would have worked because they’d shot themselves in the foot with the shower scene. It had to be a dream
But If they’d have waited. Cut the shower scene and just waited after completion of season 9 and the cliffhangers would have ended with sue ellen being blown up or/and mark being found dead - if they’d have waited it would have given the team some breathing space to think about how to bring Patrick back. A bit more time at least. Bobby could have been reintroduced slowly at the beginning of season 10.
The shower scene must have been thought up so quickly - that was the problem that boxed them into the dream resolution.
And even if they suddenly had a rethink after it had transmitted, no other explanation to bring Bobby back (evil twin, woke again at the hospital morgue and been in hiding) would have worked because they’d shot themselves in the foot with the shower scene. It had to be a dream
tommie
Telly Talk Hero
I think that was a common problem with the thinking at the time in general though - I know Camille Marchetta admitted that she knew she was leaving at the end of Dynasty's season 5, thought up the massacre and "left it as a problem for the writers next season to solve". Even things like "Who Shot JR?" was originally thought up because they had to extend the season so they just figured they'd end it with JR being shot; I very much doubt they 100% knew who they were going to pin it on when they shot the scene.
Sometimes this of course ended well for them (Who Shot JR) but sometimes the lack of thinking what would happen next season after the spectacular cliffhanger ended with a disaster (Bobby in the shower / The Dynasty massacre).
Seaviewer
Telly Talk Warrior
It still would have wiped away the previous year's events ...
... which of course was the aim. The dream was just the means to do it.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Nyahhh… You can open up the next season with Victoria staring at pink shower tiles... I've got it all worked out. (BTW:Katzman was tracking the end of the previous season, and planned the shower scenario).
Some people try to blame "that Dallas writer" Marchetta for DYNASTY's downfall after she arrived at the Moldavian massacre and then left the show, but its the other writers' jobs to make a previous writers' ideas work --- and I have so little faith in DYNASTY's usual staff's ability to flesh out any idea, that I can't blame anybody but them.
Maybe much (not everything) of what happened in season 9 could stay with a stretched explanation in season 10. When Bobby was in the coma for months (maybe a year) different members of his family regularly visited him and talked to him, encouraged by nurses who told them that people in a coma sometimes can listen. So JR, Pam, Ray, and others could visit him individually and tell him what was happening in their lives.
Bobby's dream would be actually a mix of dreaming his death and reality (from stories told to him by his family)
When he wakes up, there should be consequences of this mixed dream/reality, for a few episodes : Bobby has to deal with what's real, and what's not. And the writers could keep some storylines with minor alterations.
Of course, it wouldn't be very realistic. But this way it doesn't wipe the total season 9, and fans wouldn't feel cheated as much as a "one year of dream that lasted only 1 night in Pam's head" !
And that would explain Victoria's hair growth
I can even picture it : the doctors told Pam and the Ewing that there was a very very tiny chance that Bobby can come back from his coma. Maybe he will never come back. But this time, unlike Mickey, they won't unplug him.
Most everything that happens to the characters in the dream season happens in reality (except things linked to "Bobby's death" = no funeral, no will, no talk about his death)
In reality, a lawyer tells JR that Bobby wrote a kind of will that says that if he dies or if he's in a coma, his shares of Ewing Oil go to Christopher, but mandated by Pam till he's 18 yo.
Pam is devasted by Bobby's coma (and the fact he surely won't come back rom it), and Mark (like in the dream season) is alive, and comes back to support her.
They fall in love again. Off screen, Pam tells to comatose Bobby she still loves him, and always will. But she has a chance to have little happiness with Mark. And that Mark might die one day (he's in remission), so she can't waste this little chance of happiness till they can. She tells Boby she's gonna marry Mark.
In the finale, they get married, and then when the Pastor asks if someones object, we suddenly ear Bobby's voice saying "noooo, no..." But we don't see him. The image gets blurry, and we see Bobbys' face in the hospital, eyes closed, saying "not, no..." and then he opens his eyes. He's alone in the hospital room. End credits.
In real life, Pam is married to Mark. Nobody objected. It creates new drama for season 10. Even if Pam and Bobby still love each other, they yet can't be together (again)
And most everything that happened in season 9 stays : Donna and Ray adopting a son, Sue Ellen recovering, and coming back to JR, The emerald mine, Angelica, and more
Bobby's dream would be actually a mix of dreaming his death and reality (from stories told to him by his family)
When he wakes up, there should be consequences of this mixed dream/reality, for a few episodes : Bobby has to deal with what's real, and what's not. And the writers could keep some storylines with minor alterations.
Of course, it wouldn't be very realistic. But this way it doesn't wipe the total season 9, and fans wouldn't feel cheated as much as a "one year of dream that lasted only 1 night in Pam's head" !
And that would explain Victoria's hair growth
I can even picture it : the doctors told Pam and the Ewing that there was a very very tiny chance that Bobby can come back from his coma. Maybe he will never come back. But this time, unlike Mickey, they won't unplug him.
Most everything that happens to the characters in the dream season happens in reality (except things linked to "Bobby's death" = no funeral, no will, no talk about his death)
In reality, a lawyer tells JR that Bobby wrote a kind of will that says that if he dies or if he's in a coma, his shares of Ewing Oil go to Christopher, but mandated by Pam till he's 18 yo.
Pam is devasted by Bobby's coma (and the fact he surely won't come back rom it), and Mark (like in the dream season) is alive, and comes back to support her.
They fall in love again. Off screen, Pam tells to comatose Bobby she still loves him, and always will. But she has a chance to have little happiness with Mark. And that Mark might die one day (he's in remission), so she can't waste this little chance of happiness till they can. She tells Boby she's gonna marry Mark.
In the finale, they get married, and then when the Pastor asks if someones object, we suddenly ear Bobby's voice saying "noooo, no..." But we don't see him. The image gets blurry, and we see Bobbys' face in the hospital, eyes closed, saying "not, no..." and then he opens his eyes. He's alone in the hospital room. End credits.
In real life, Pam is married to Mark. Nobody objected. It creates new drama for season 10. Even if Pam and Bobby still love each other, they yet can't be together (again)
And most everything that happened in season 9 stays : Donna and Ray adopting a son, Sue Ellen recovering, and coming back to JR, The emerald mine, Angelica, and more
Last edited:
Stevie UK
Telly Talk Newbie
I never would have brought Duffy back after he chose to leave. There's this big myth from the time that his leaving caused the show's ratings to drop, but the show's ratings were steadily declining after 1980-81 anyway (with a slight bump in 83-84). Once he came back, the ratings continued to decline and the show fell out of the top 10 for good. Of course, by this time, the producers had actively alienated their audience by pulling the most ridiculous plot twist of all time and turned this titan show into a titanic joke.
I do remember watching the dream season at the time, and thinking how dull it was. It wasn't dreadful, it was just dull. Here in the UK it took 8 months for the show to return and when it did, it seemed like a shadow of its former self. It still looked terrific, but its mojo was gone. Anjelica Nero was a great villainess but her plots took ages to get going (as did all the other plots that year). They were stretching the show out too far (31 episodes, when there's probably about 24 episodes worth of story). The opening credits were barren with Duffy and Tilton gone, but nobody replaced them (Dack Rambo and Jennilee Harrison should have been included to give the opening a fresh lick of paint, perhaps along with a brand new character). The show needed reinvigorating and maybe even reinvention, rather than retconning and hoping for the best. For the last five seasons it was on air, I never felt Duffy was particularly essential to the show in any way and I don't think it would have made a difference whether he was in it or not. Katzman and Hagman in charge truly was the kiss of death though.
I do remember watching the dream season at the time, and thinking how dull it was. It wasn't dreadful, it was just dull. Here in the UK it took 8 months for the show to return and when it did, it seemed like a shadow of its former self. It still looked terrific, but its mojo was gone. Anjelica Nero was a great villainess but her plots took ages to get going (as did all the other plots that year). They were stretching the show out too far (31 episodes, when there's probably about 24 episodes worth of story). The opening credits were barren with Duffy and Tilton gone, but nobody replaced them (Dack Rambo and Jennilee Harrison should have been included to give the opening a fresh lick of paint, perhaps along with a brand new character). The show needed reinvigorating and maybe even reinvention, rather than retconning and hoping for the best. For the last five seasons it was on air, I never felt Duffy was particularly essential to the show in any way and I don't think it would have made a difference whether he was in it or not. Katzman and Hagman in charge truly was the kiss of death though.
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
It's not a myth. The ratings fell over 2 points in season 9 - the one without Bobby - from what they'd been the previous season. 20.97 to 18.8.
The myth is that when it was revealed in season 10 that season 9 had just been Pam's dream, massive numbers of viewers quit watching Dallas. That's just not so. The ratings for season 10, despite viewers being nothing in the previous season actually happened, stayed roughly the same dropping just two tenths of a point from 18.8 to 18.6. That's a decrease of only slightly over one percent of the size of their audience. Fans were happy Bobby was back. I've heard the argument, "The ratings stayed about the same but they hurt their legacy." TV producers aren't in the legacy business; they're in business to make money. Ratings rule TV because they dictate what they can charge for advertising time. Legacy doesn't pay anyone's mortgage or put food on the table. A legacy and a couple bucks will get you a cup of coffee just about anywhere.
8 30 September 28, 1984 May 17, 1985 #2 20.97
9 31 September 27, 1985 May 16, 1986 #6 18.8
10 29 September 26, 1986 May 15, 1987 #11 18.6
Michael Torrance
Telly Talk Mega Star
If fans left in droves because Bobby left, why didn't they return when he came back with the idiotic dream solution? There wasn't even a minimal bump in the ratings--instead, there was further decline, even small. Either nobody cared that Bobby returned, or some did, but many more left in disgust and the net result was further decline rather than increase.
The 1985-86 season was the season where audiences were drawn to another genre, the sitcom, and the Bill Cosby show became #1 with Family Ties at #2. Just a year before, Dynasty was #1 and Dallas was #2. That year, Dallas was #6 and Dynasty was #7. Of course the plots of the soaps in that year did not help, and creative decisions hurt the shows. Dallas's 85-86 season could have been a rejuvenation for the show, with Pam and J.R. fighting for Ewing Oil per Davis Jacobs' mini-series plan. While the show did have some interesting new stories, it also had some duds (Angelica Nero, Jack Ewing). Also, both super soaps stretched out to 31 episodes for whatever reasons the networks had.
Dallas continued to decline in ratings and rankings. It went to #11 the year Bobby returned, and to #21 the year after (with a 15.2 rating). Whatever "Patrick Duffy and Larry Hagman Kool-Aid" the Dallas producers were drinking, the audience wasn't partaking. I do agree with you that for the short-term, legacy is not an issue that producers and networks care about. It is something fans care about, but not capitalists running companies. But I bet you the declining ratings bringing lower ad revenue in the following years did hurt them where they care.
Last edited: