Ray in season 10.

[Spooky Owl!]

I thought it was hilarious that they cast a Nicaraguan, an American, and.. was the actress who played Grace actually Canadian or am I making that up? ..to play 3 ‘Europeans’, with ‘European’ essentially translating to ‘bizarrely stiff and formal’ for the producers and audience.

Well, it was more convincing than that gaggle of Moldavians. Where the king was from Brooklyn.

 

[Mustard]

I thought it was hilarious that they chose a Nicaraguan, an American, and.. was the actress who played Grace actually Canadian or am I making that up? ..to play 3 ‘Europeans’, with ‘European’ essentially translating to ‘bizarrely stiff and formal’ for the producers and audience.

Merete Van Kamp, who played Grace, is Danish. The name sounds Dutch or Flemish, though.

 

[Guzzler’s Frightening Hair]

Merete Van Kamp, who played Grace, is Danish. The name sounds Dutch or Flemish, though.

ah, got it.. I’ve been searching bios, but can’t find much more than “Danish-born” - not sure where she actually grew up.

I must be conflating her with Naldo “Quebecois” Marchetta!

 

[Spooky Owl!]

oh sure, the dream season ended being over the top Lifetime Movie sentimentality after a while (I actually preferred Angelica and her weirdo “European henchpeople” and “shirtless fake Guzzler and his fake but actually not fake emerald mine” to “everyone sitting together at cocktail hour discussing their feelings”

That's what Katzman called "A Woman's Show" about the dream season and DYNASTY -- when maudlin, disingenuous emotionalism and soulless virtue signaling takes precedence over solid character-based plotting.

Funny, how KNOTS -- full of prominent female characters -- could never be justly dismissed as "A Woman's Show."

 

[Mustard]

Knots Landing had strong female characters. Valene, Karen and Abby were all strong in different ways. Valene was the air, Karen was the earth, Abby was the fire.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Knots Landing had strong female characters. Valene, Karen and Abby were all strong in different ways. Valene was the air, Karen was the earth, Abby was the fire.

Exactly.

 

[James from London]

Knots Landing had strong female characters. Valene, Karen and Abby were all strong in different ways.

And, crucially, plenty of fully-realised male characters too, who were an equally important part of the Knotsian equation. Left to their own devices, Val and Karen had a tendency to become somewhat histrionic (as demonstrated in Back to the Cul-de-Sac), but the likes of Mack, Richard, Greg and Gary (as well as Laura, Paige and Abby) served to undercut all that emotionality (to use an Afton Cooper word).

 

[Pandora]

Can we agree that after Pam wakes up, Ray turns into a total dick? He places the entire blame for the breakdown of their marriage and eventual divorce on Donna, showing no recognition for her contributions or the support she has given him.

His hostility extends to Bobby as well, acting as if Bobby “dumped” Jenna and discarded her, when in fact she ended the relationship. Had she not made that choice, Bobby likely would have stayed with her. And then there’s Jenna’s pregnancy — Bobby didn’t even know she was expecting, though Ray acts as if he knew and told Jenna to go eat yellow snow. If he had known, coupled with her not ending things, he certainly would have married her.

In short, Ray’s attitude makes even Cliff’s sexist behavior seem mild by comparison.

Bobby did dump Jenna. Regarding Jenna's pregnancy, she had told Ray about it. I wish he had not told Bobby, but Bobby's sanctimonious lecturing became too much for Ray .... no, he wasn't going to stay with Jenna, pregnant or not.

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

Knots Landing had strong female characters. Valene, Karen and Abby were all strong in different ways. Valene was the air, Karen was the earth, Abby was the fire.

Valene was low key the strongest female character on Dallas.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Bobby did dump Jenna. Regarding Jenna's pregnancy, she had told Ray about it. I wish he had not told Bobby, but Bobby's sanctimonious lecturing became too much for Ray .... no, he wasn't going to stay with Jenna, pregnant or not.

That's what I thought - that Bobby left Jenna

Valene was low key the strongest female character on Dallas.

Considering all she endured, quite possibly. I would have said Donna, but that could be a good debate

 

[CryptCreeper72]

Just my personal opinion, but once they removed the Ray/Donna relationship, Ray really had nothing to do BUT be an asshole.

To me,the worst things he did in season ten was:

1. Telling Bobby Jenna was pregnant on his wedding day KNOWING Jenna never wanted Bobby to know.

And

2. Demand that Pam "order him up a steak" after Calhoun was killed like she was his personal servant.

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

Just my personal opinion, but once they removed the Ray/Donna relationship, Ray really had nothing to do BUT be an asshole.

To me,the worst things he did in season ten was:

1. Telling Bobby Jenna was pregnant on his wedding day KNOWING Jenna never wanted Bobby to know.

And

2. Demand that Pam "order him up a steak" after Calhoun was killed like she was his personal servant.

And talking Jenna into sending Charlie away and then cheating as soon as Jenna and Charlie's plane left.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Ray had his flaws, but there is a tendency to compare Ray's not-so-likeable actions with his better self.
He was still far more ethical overall, in general, than others on the show

Ray does deserve some empathy, I think.
Grew up without the most supportive Father,
Garnet McGee with JR - losing her to the rich Ewing, who he thought was a friend
after Pam left him for the other rich Ewing. It would certainly not be pleasant for him.
Didn't have access to the Ewing wealth until later
Found out later that Jock was his Father,
Not as business savvy as his brothers, or his wife. It was only human that he would have some resentments.
"Conundrum" made an interesting point that Ray was not wealthy, but happier, if he never knew that he was a Ewing

Even when giving Bobby some help in the battle for Ewing Oil, it ended in disaster.
JR rightly pointed out that Ray had to take some responsibility for getting involved.
A hard truth, but still the truth

Again, he had flaws, but nowhere near most of the others.

 

[Mustard]

The way that Sue Ellen talked to Ray too, after their one night stand. Her attitude was so cold that it was freezing.

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

Ray´s out-of-character relationship with Jenna was another way to prove that his self-esteem still was very very low, despite spending 4 years married to an almost perfect wife like Donna. He would never have ruined his half-brother and best friend´s (and his own ex-girlfriend´s) wedding for anything in the world, or betray a friend´s trust, much less one with so many problems as Jenna. In his two last full years, Ray (just like Donna too) were zombified, and it was hard to feel empathy for such apathetic characters. No wonder Steve completely forgot about Margaret in later interviews. It was twice bad for Susan Howard because she almost retired after "Dallas".

The last seasons should have belonged to
them and Miss Ellie. No other blondes allowed.​

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Ray´s out-of-character relationship with Jenna was another way to prove that his self-esteem still was very very low, despite spending 4 years married to an almost perfect wife like Donna. He would never have ruined his half-brother and best friend´s (and his own ex-girlfriend´s) wedding for anything in the world, or betray a friend´s trust, much less one with so many problems as Jenna. In his two last full years, Ray (just like Donna too) were zombified, and it was hard to feel empathy for such apathetic characters. No wonder Steve completely forgot about Margaret in later interviews. It was twice bad for Susan Howard because she almost retired after "Dallas".

View attachment 57802
The last seasons should have belonged to
them and Miss Ellie. No other blondes allowed.​

I see it both the same, and somewhat differently.

Ray's self-esteem may have been low because he was married to Donna, who was intelligent and successful.
His differences with Bobby may have been somewhat the result of repressing some resentments about losing Pam,
the Waly Driscoll/Mickey fiasco being a half brother, and not being as business savvy as Bobby and JR.

And it is possible that he had empathy for Jenna's situation, having been raised with a mostly absentee father

I agree that Ray/Jenna was not a good match, but I do think there was at least some material to be explored

And I have always said that Ray/Donna were the underrated stabilizing element in the show.
Susan Howard's departure had a huge negative impact on the show

 

[Guzzler’s Frightening Hair]

Knots Landing had strong female characters. Valene, Karen and Abby were all strong in different ways. Valene was the air, Karen was the earth, Abby was the fire.

all they needed was to have Ciji and/or Cathy Geary perform with the band Earth, Wind & Fire on a “very special episode” and they would have really had something!