Remaining The Innovator

CeeCee72

Telly Talk Star
That would have been a good way to see him work through it.

I agree it probably would have been Bobby he confided in. Normally, he would confide in SE, but not about THIS.

Although, I so wish we could have seen HER confront him, REALLY confront him.

I think there was a missed opportunity in the scene after the car wreck with Mickey after she caught him with Holly Harwood. She's in bed all bruised and he comes in to try to apologize.

She asks him why he did it. "If you wanted to be with other women, JR, why didn't you just do it? Why did you chase me so?"

He starts to answer, but she tells him to shut up and leave her alone. Maybe if she had let him continue, we could have gotten a realization from him then.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
He starts to answer, but she tells him to shut up and leave her alone. Maybe if she had let him continue, we could have gotten a realization from him then.

Yes, and if we get a realization from him, it could lead to some character development. People would have found it interesting to get some insight into why he keeps on screwing up his marriage by cheating. Whether it's that he just doesn't value marriage or that he gets an adrenaline rush from the chase that compels him to repeat that self-destructive behavior over and over again, it takes the story and the character to a new place.

Dallas was a highly innovative show for its time and JR was a character unlike any other we'd seen as the most featured character of a primetime drama. It's an exciting character and the interactions between him and the rest of the family made great TV. The idea to have the whole family live in the same house, so we'd see more interaction between them than we otherwise would was an innovative idea. It worked and they had some great storylines, but at some point they started coasting on the success they'd built instead of continuing to innovate. They can't expect us to watch these characters do the same types of things over and over without some more character development. Sue Ellen was drinking heavily in season 2 and in season 9 she still was! JR was cheating in season 1 and in season 11 he still was! It gets old after a while without continuing to innovate with things like character development.

You can se JR and Sue Ellen are unhappy in their marriage from the beginning. 10 years later, they were still unhappy over the same types of problems. Suppose they have JR identify the cause of his problem and show him seriously try to overcome it. Whether he succeeds and it leads to a better marriage or he fails and we see him disgusted with himself over his lack of self control, it's something new!

They eventually realized they had to change things to keep the show interesting but it was too little, too late. Their idea of character development for JR was for him to start failing in his business deals and failing in general. It was a very negative direction to take. People usually like to see character s progress, not regress. JR's whole persona, his aura, were all built around the concept that this character was very, very good at what he did. To watch him become diminished as a character instead of growing as a character wasn't something anybody wanted to see. They weren't innovating; they were just tearing down everything they'd built. Cally one-ups JR. Then James and Michelle and LeAnn De Le Vega. It turned the show into a joke. What's next, the maid? No, that was for TNT Dallas. Of all the things they could have done, TNT decides to base their story around the Ewings' maid and her kids. I couldn't make this stuff up. If I hadn't seen them try to do that, I wouldn't believe anyone could be that dumb.
 

Toni

Maximum Member
IMHO that last scene of the "Penultimate" episode showed what a big hypocrite JR actually was. I never believed for a second that he felt guilty for her falling off the wagon or for Mickey´s condition. He was selfish, self-absorbed and unapologetic. He´d be lynched in a network TV show today...but celebrated in the cable channels...

images


Even when Sue Ellen dreamed in Pam´s dream,
JR tried to kidnap John Ross...​

About his love for John Ross, I didn´t buy either. Not that he didn´t love him, but the quality of that love: he tried to kidnap him and keep him away from his mum several times, lied about her to him (and taught him to lie...), treated James as his only heir, and caused fights at home in front of the kid many many times. Not that these things are not unusual IRL, but that was JR. No matter how idealized he may have become. Even so, he indeed was one of the better things of "Dallas"...and this says a lot.


And, well, his legacy: when Cally shows up, John Ross and Chris talk about women, and they agree that women "are trouble". :re::re::re::re::re:
 

Toni

Maximum Member
You can't kidnap your own kid any more than you can break into your own house or steal your car from yourself.

Well, when your son is with his mother and she has the legal right to have him, I think you can...JR could, at least (or so he thought).
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Jails are full of non custodial parents who snatched their own kids.

You can't steal what is yours - what you created.

Those are extreme situations where a parent lost the right to be a parent because they beat the hell out of their kids or they smoked crack, were alcoholics, just terrible dangers to their kids. If you're a parent you have a great responsibility to your child and as long as you live up to that responsibility there isn't a force on earth that can say "oh, how dare you snatch your child"? I'd just say: "How dare you care so little about your child you'd allow your child to be snatched from ya and somehow be OK with that"? The child is every bit as much the fathers' child as he mothers' child. Children deserve equal time with each one, unless one parent is shown to be a threat to the child's well being.

Did John Ross ever get "kidnapped" by JR or Sue Ellen? I know Pam kidnapped John Ross, and Lucy did, but by his parents?
 
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CeeCee72

Telly Talk Star
You can't steal what is yours - what you created.

Those are extreme situations where a parent lost the right to be a parent because they beat the hell out of their kids or they smoked crack, were alcoholics, just terrible dangers to their kids. If you're a parent you have a great responsibility to your child and as long as you live up to that responsibility there isn't a force on earth that can say "oh, how dare you snatch your child"? I'd just say: "How dare you care so little about your child you'd allow your child to be snatched from ya and somehow be OK with that"? The child is every bit as much the fathers' child as he mothers' child. Children deserve equal time with each one, unless one parent is shown to be a threat to the child's well being.

Did John Ross ever get "kidnapped" by JR or Sue Ellen? I know Pam kidnapped John Ross, and Lucy did, but by his parents?

I wouldn't say either of them ever kidnapped John Ross... But I guess the law depends on what state you're in and what your custody agreement is.

When my husband and I divorced, our children were young. If either of us took the kids out of state without the other one's permission, we could have been charged with kidnapping. If either of us didn't return the the children at the designated time (and with no notification), custodial interference.

And ours was an amicable divorce and shared custody agreement.

So depending on Texas law, when JR sent John Ross away so Sue Ellen couldn't find him, that may have been kidnapping.
 
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Ukdallasfan

Telly Talk Fan
In England there are child abduction laws to cover the scenario. One parent cannot keep a child from the other unless there are very good reasons. As Clayton said- let the court (family court) decide.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Abduction is a nicer word for it than kidnapping because kidnapping typically involves some stranger taking possession of a loved one of yours and then telling you that if you don't pay the ransom, the million dollars or whatever it maybe, they'll kill your loved one!

That's such a terrifying a violent crime that to compare it to a parent doing something he or she believe's is in their child's best interest should require a completely different word other than "kidnapping" to describe it.

JR put John Ross in that school when a Braddock Country judge had given him full custody anyway, so it was JR's call to make!
 
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Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
I think they an attempt to innovate in season 12. Did it work? Probably not. Still, it was the last season where I saw some type of serious attempt at innovating and no, bringing in a lot of good looking young people doesn't count. If it did then Tommy and Tracey McKay, Michelle Stevens and James Beaumont would have worked. That was a fairly obvious attempt at trying to garner more of the young demographic, but Dallas wasn't a beauty contest.

Where I saw them trying in season 12 is with the range war. It was an attempt to bring back the western feel of the show which had been so prevalent in the earlier years and had been so successful. The difference was that in the earlier years you didn't see western elements being forced into the show just to make it look like a modern day western. Characters like Jock Ewing and Punk Anderson brought a western feel to the show because they were played by actors who actually had lots of experience in western movies! Jim Davis had acted alongside John Wayne - the biggest icon there ever was in the movie industry until Clint Eastwood eventually overtook him by not only excelling in westerns but then went on to do more amore ambitious projects with great success.

The range war was something I enjoyed but people have mixed opinions on it. AlthoughI enjoyed it, the show had been so devoid of that western style in the last several years that when they suddenly re-introduced it, it seemed somewhat contrived. It had a fun storyline though and they brought in George Kennedy,who had an impressive career in acting. Finding out that Carter McKay was just a front for Westar and that Jeremy Wendell was the one who conceived of the idea to try to take section 40 that way was interesting. The ending to that storyline, where the Ewings finally got Wendell was one of my favorite episodes. That's just based on entertainment value alone. It was very satisfying to see the Ewings unite to conquer such a formidable adversary. There isn't anyone who doesn't make mistakes- not even Jeremy Wendell.

The downside of it was that took Wendell, a great character out of the picture because he got sent to prison. Nobody was watching that thinking, well, now the show is losing an important character, because they were involved in the story - not contemplating the future seasons of the show. If they'd had it to do over, as fun as it was to see Wendell get caught, I'm sure they would have preferred to have done something else so that they could keep the character of Wendell for future storylines. They thought that with George Kennedy, a more famous actor, in the role of the new adversary for the Ewings that they wouldn't need Wendell anymore but as good an actor as George Kennedy was, he never managed to do the job that William Smithers did in portraying the most capable, most threatening adversary the Ewings had ever had.
 
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