Barbara Fan
Admin
yes
Yes
yes,
yes
Very astute in many ways - I hope she enjoys more episodes, love to hear what she thinks about the final few years (oh dear)
Very astute in many ways - I hope she enjoys more episodes, love to hear what she thinks about the final few years (oh dear)
She’s 100% right. I was wondering the same thing. All I could think was Sue Ellen, not again. When will you learn?
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
Just out of interest what did she think of the Wes Parmalee Jock Ewing storyline?
It's nice to hear everyone's views.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
She didn't care for it. She said Jock was too damn mean and prideful not to come back and claim his family right away. She said if Jock was alive he would have come back as soon as he could walk.Just out of interest what did she think of the Wes Parmalee Jock Ewing storyline?
It's nice to hear everyone's views.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
Up to episode 12 of season eleven.
Her observations:
She wants to know wtf is wrong with Bobby? Katherine probably has Pam and made her write that Damn letter! And why isn't anyone upset Pam's gone?
She says Sue Ellen just needs to shoot JR! She hopes she doesn't sleep with that Billy Ray Cyrus look alike. He's creepy.
She hates the Dandy storyline with Cliff. Says Jock and Digger are dead and I they need to stop bringing in random old guys to try to replace them.
If Jeff Faraday has a sister how come no one ever heard of her before now?
Casey is a waste of air.
Every character needs to get a gun and take turns shooting Jenna and Charly.
Her observations:
She wants to know wtf is wrong with Bobby? Katherine probably has Pam and made her write that Damn letter! And why isn't anyone upset Pam's gone?
She says Sue Ellen just needs to shoot JR! She hopes she doesn't sleep with that Billy Ray Cyrus look alike. He's creepy.
She hates the Dandy storyline with Cliff. Says Jock and Digger are dead and I they need to stop bringing in random old guys to try to replace them.
If Jeff Faraday has a sister how come no one ever heard of her before now?
Casey is a waste of air.
Every character needs to get a gun and take turns shooting Jenna and Charly.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
At the time, memories of the debacle that was Pam's Dream were fresh -- it had even become a punchline for several sitcoms. And the exit of Pam was karmically connected to Bobby's clunky resurrection in the minds of the viewer, so the producers tried to sweep Pam under the rug as swiftly as her car swept under that propane tanker, using Bobby's "pain" over being dumped yet again to justify the show all-but-ignoring her absence.
They even called one episode "The Mummy's Revenge" --- well, just who is the mummy?? It's Pam -- it's Victoria Principal!
So Katzman was clearly cognizant of the fact that Pam, who started out (for about 5 seconds) to be the star of the show, had been disrespected in certain ways... Yes, JR's ascendency was important and necessary. But when Pam later went to work at Ewing Oil, the writers sidelined her and muffled the storyline, and then she was pushed further out of the way with Bobby's foolishly executed (or un-executed) return. And then they push her semi-dead body even further out of the way once she exits by having everybody ignore that the character was ever there in the first place!
So, yeah, if Katzman thought Principal had been screwed over (and largely by him) then who's to argue the point? But he seemed to have an all-male psychology about DALLAS (which the closing years indicated most vividly). And while I would never suggest that DALLAS should ever be some kind of feminist document, Katzman just seemed overtly biased in the other direction.
David Jacobs also admitted that Victoria didn't have the best relationship with the executives, and that that likely fed into how Pam was treated, and her exodus handled so shabbily.
Also, in anticipation of an upcoming writers' strike in 1987 (which was actually delayed by a year) Katzman and the Lorimar chose to forego the usual spring hiatus period when the writers plan and structure the upcoming season, and instead went right into shooting the next year -- so they had to write while they filmed. Which is partly why the pacing is a bit off for the 11the (87-88) season.
I still say that tanker truck Pam crashed into should have been revealed to be doing illegal business for JR... It just had to happen.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
At the time, memories of the debacle that was Pam's Dream were fresh -- it had even become a punchline for several sitcoms. And the exit of Pam was karmically connected to Bobby's clunky resurrection in the minds of the viewer, so the producers tried to sweep Pam under the rug as swiftly as her car swept under that propane tanker, using Bobby's "pain" over being dumped yet again to justify the show all-but-ignoring her absence.
They even called one episode "The Mummy's Revenge" --- well, just who is the mummy?? It's Pam -- it's Victoria Principal!
So Katzman was clearly cognizant of the fact that Pam, who started out (for about 5 seconds) to be the star of the show, had been disrespected in certain ways... Yes, JR's ascendency was important and necessary. But when Pam later went to work at Ewing Oil, the writers sidelined her and muffled the storyline, and then she was pushed further out of the way with Bobby's foolishly executed (or un-executed) return. And then they push her semi-dead body even further out of the way once she exits by having everybody ignore that the character was ever there in the first place!
So, yeah, if Katzman thought Principal had been screwed over (and largely by him) then who's to argue the point? But he seemed to have an all-male psychology about DALLAS (which the closing years indicated most vividly). And while I would never suggest that DALLAS should ever be some kind of feminist document, Katzman just seemed overtly biased in the other direction.
David Jacobs also admitted that Victoria didn't have the best relationship with the executives, and that that likely fed into how Pam was treated, and her exodus handled so shabbily.
Also, in anticipation of an upcoming writers' strike in 1987 (which was actually delayed by a year) Katzman and the Lorimar chose to forego the usual spring hiatus period when the writers plan and structure the upcoming season, and instead went right into shooting the next year -- so they had to write while they filmed. Which is partly why the pacing is a bit off for the 11the (87-88) season.
I still say that tanker truck Pam crashed into should have been revealed to be doing illegal business for JR... It just had to happen.
Pamela Barnes Ewing will always have my utmost respect.
I think they also believed that Victoria would ultimately sign another contract for the new season. TV Guide reported at the time that the negotiations had hit a “snag” and that Pam was being “taken out” of the scripts. My guess is that the early part of the season was plotted so that it could have Pam in there or not, with Pam lightly written for. So none of the characters were wringing their hands over her exit.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
You could well be right.
I respect Victoria's decision to move on.
However Dallas would never be the same after she left.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Apparently, Victoria wanted salary parity with Duffy, and was only willing to sign for one more year. Lorimar wanted two and were probably not willing to match her financial requests (although Principal later said that they were offering enough money to make her "the highest paid actress on television").
They publicly said her demands were "very high" and Principal, upon leaving, graciously said, "CBS and Lorimar have always been very generous with me."
A year or so later, Larry allegedly had dinner with Victoria and brought her a higher offer, but she declined.
Anybody who knew Victoria knew she'd never come back, and no one could rightly blame her. She saw that DALLAS' best days were behind it, and got out when the getting was good.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
We finished season eleven.
The whole Laurel storyline made her angry. When JR raped her, that's the first time I think she REALLY hated JR.
She has had it with Bobby. She said Pam hadn't been gone for ten minutes and already Bobby seems to have forgotten she ever existed and is bouncing around from one stupid bimbo to the next one.
She also hated the mob story with Nicolas. She said no one cares about him or his family and the whole plot was created to give him and April something to do.
She said Jenna and Ray are the worst parents ever but rejoiced when they sent Charly away. The Connie storyline she said was a complete rip off of fatal attraction. She hates Ray and Jenna together and misses Donna terribly.
She was furious when Miss Ellie signed over half of Southfork to Clayton. She said "her" Miss Ellie would never do such a thing.
She LOVED Sue Ellen teaming up with Wendell and Kimberly to screw over JR. Honestly, that's the only plot line she cared for at all this season.
And the Cliff hanger?
I quote: "YAY! Sue Ellen FINALLY shot the bastard and Achy Breaky Heart-throb got tossed off the balcony to boot!"
We are starting season 12 tonight. Lord help us.
The whole Laurel storyline made her angry. When JR raped her, that's the first time I think she REALLY hated JR.
She has had it with Bobby. She said Pam hadn't been gone for ten minutes and already Bobby seems to have forgotten she ever existed and is bouncing around from one stupid bimbo to the next one.
She also hated the mob story with Nicolas. She said no one cares about him or his family and the whole plot was created to give him and April something to do.
She said Jenna and Ray are the worst parents ever but rejoiced when they sent Charly away. The Connie storyline she said was a complete rip off of fatal attraction. She hates Ray and Jenna together and misses Donna terribly.
She was furious when Miss Ellie signed over half of Southfork to Clayton. She said "her" Miss Ellie would never do such a thing.
She LOVED Sue Ellen teaming up with Wendell and Kimberly to screw over JR. Honestly, that's the only plot line she cared for at all this season.
And the Cliff hanger?
I quote: "YAY! Sue Ellen FINALLY shot the bastard and Achy Breaky Heart-throb got tossed off the balcony to boot!"
We are starting season 12 tonight. Lord help us.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
For all its profound flaws, Season 11 is the last time DALLAS feels even remotely like DALLAS.
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
For that reason, Season 12 DVD does have a fresher feeling with newer characters coming in, even though it's a mess. Season 11 DVD feels more like the old ways gone very stale.
Grangehill1
Telly Talk Fan
Season 11 is awful. A dying show. At least in 12 they TRY and change things
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
So here we are, 12 episodes into the abyssal season 12.
She is disappointed that Sue Ellen's shots didn't do more damage to JR than they did. She also finds it totally unbelievable that Sue Ellen wasn't charged (after she and achy Breaky Heart-throb broke into JR's home and JR was only defending himself). She rolled her eyes at Bobby's speech to SE about how John Ross would suffer if the whole thing turned into a bigger scandal. She said John Ross was already screwed up just knowing his mom shot his dad and that his dad deserved it for all those years of abuse.
The Halleyville crap almost made her give up and walk away. She said that was the dumbest thing she had ever seen. She is really ticked about how the police and the courts are being made a mockery of this season.
She hates Cally. But not as much as she hates Casey.
She said Miss Ellie totally disrespected Jock's memory AGAIN by suggesting Cliff be part of Ewing Oil and by agreeing to cave into McKay. She said if Jock was still alive he would have shoved that damn so far up McKay's rear the only thing that would be stopped up was his bowels.
She hates that Jeremy went to jail. She was kinda hoping SE would hook up with him and make JR crazy
She is disappointed that Sue Ellen's shots didn't do more damage to JR than they did. She also finds it totally unbelievable that Sue Ellen wasn't charged (after she and achy Breaky Heart-throb broke into JR's home and JR was only defending himself). She rolled her eyes at Bobby's speech to SE about how John Ross would suffer if the whole thing turned into a bigger scandal. She said John Ross was already screwed up just knowing his mom shot his dad and that his dad deserved it for all those years of abuse.
The Halleyville crap almost made her give up and walk away. She said that was the dumbest thing she had ever seen. She is really ticked about how the police and the courts are being made a mockery of this season.
She hates Cally. But not as much as she hates Casey.
She said Miss Ellie totally disrespected Jock's memory AGAIN by suggesting Cliff be part of Ewing Oil and by agreeing to cave into McKay. She said if Jock was still alive he would have shoved that damn so far up McKay's rear the only thing that would be stopped up was his bowels.
She hates that Jeremy went to jail. She was kinda hoping SE would hook up with him and make JR crazy
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CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
Finished season 12.
She says she never thought their would be a worse character than Casey, but now we have Tommy.
JR's marriage to Cally is really irritating her. She doesn't dislike Cally but can't believe they expect us to believe he would ever marry her.
She doesn't like the idea of Bobby with April ever.
She liked it with Sue Ellen punched out JR at the ball, but hates the movie storyline. She says the whole family knows all the gossip and probably everyone in Dallas does too, so why should JR care if she makes a movie or not. Says if SE wants revenge, she should just shoot him this time and aim for his privates.
Said the Clayton amnesia was silly and filler to give him and Ellie something to fret about while they stood around and did nothing.
Hated the trip to Europe. Said Dallas should stay in Dallas.
I don't know if she can get through the last two seasons. She said this one is some of the worst TV she has ever seen. Just wait til she sees the rest...
She says she never thought their would be a worse character than Casey, but now we have Tommy.
JR's marriage to Cally is really irritating her. She doesn't dislike Cally but can't believe they expect us to believe he would ever marry her.
She doesn't like the idea of Bobby with April ever.
She liked it with Sue Ellen punched out JR at the ball, but hates the movie storyline. She says the whole family knows all the gossip and probably everyone in Dallas does too, so why should JR care if she makes a movie or not. Says if SE wants revenge, she should just shoot him this time and aim for his privates.
Said the Clayton amnesia was silly and filler to give him and Ellie something to fret about while they stood around and did nothing.
Hated the trip to Europe. Said Dallas should stay in Dallas.
I don't know if she can get through the last two seasons. She said this one is some of the worst TV she has ever seen. Just wait til she sees the rest...
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
If you don't make it to the end (I think most fans didn't at the time), then perhaps go back to Swansong and watch the dream.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
That's a really great idea!
Michelle Stevens
'The Lovely Michelle'
Please finish it. If you made it through Seasons 11 and 12, 13 and 14 should be a piece of cake. I do enjoy reading the views of your Dallas newbie daughter.
I do enjoy reading the views of your Dallas newbie daughter.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
We're watching it now. She says she started it and she is damn well gonna finish it.Please finish it. If you made it through Seasons 11 and 12, 13 and 14 should be a piece of cake.
But we probably will go back after and watch the dream season.