Steve Forrest, a missed opportunity?

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I'm thinking it was a missed opportunity by the show's Producer's not to keep Steve Forrest as a re-cast Jock Ewing on the show.

Even though they tried again in season ten with him playing Wes Parmalee, Jock's return ultimately got messed around with the return of Patrick Duffy as Bobby Ewing.

Would the show have been better off if Duffy had not returned and the original season nine cliffhanger had aired instead. Miss Ellie would've found Jock's things in Ben Stiver's bunkhouse, where upon Ben would've walked in and revealed himself to be Jock. A version of this cliffhanger was re-filmed again in season ten when Steve's character was now Wes Parmalee but this was only after Philip Capice, Peter Dunne, James H. Brown and Joel J. Feugenbaum where shown the door once Hagman wanted both Patrick Duffy and Leonard Katzman back!

Could Dallas have survived longer with Steve Forrest as Jock, whether the first Ben character or as Wes Parmalee in season ten? I think it was a wasted opportunity. I know that many fans where upset that Jim Davis was about to be replaced and felt it was an insult to his memory. I felt it was more of a tribute to him if Jock was brought back with another actor, in this case Steve Forrest who was a fine actor..

What do you all think? Was Dallas right to renege on making Wes Jock after all? Bobby's return effectively helped nix Steve Forrest from remaining on Dallas as a recast Jock Ewing, should they have followed through on the storyline with Wes? Or not brought Bobby back at all and have season nine end on the original cliffhanger where Ben is revealed to be Jock?

What do you all think?

 

[cws]

I'm thinking it was a missed opportunity by the show's Producer's not to keep Steve Forrest as a re-cast Jock Ewing on the show.

Even though they tried again in season ten with him playing Wes Parmalee, Jock's return ultimately got messed around with the return of Patrick Duffy as Bobby Ewing.

Would the show have been better off if Duffy had not returned and the original season nine cliffhanger had aired instead. Miss Ellie would've found Jock's things in Ben Stiver's bunkhouse, where upon Ben would've walked in and revealed himself to be Jock. A version of this cliffhanger was re-filmed again in season ten when Steve's character was now Wes Parmalee but this was only after Philip Capice, Peter Dunne, James H. Brown and Joel J. Feugenbaum where shown the door once Hagman wanted both Patrick Duffy and Leonard Katzman back!

Could Dallas have survived longer with Steve Forrest as Jock, whether the first Ben character or as Wes Parmalee in season ten? I think it was a wasted opportunity. I know that many fans where upset that Jim Davis was about to be replaced and felt it was an insult to his memory. I felt it was more of a tribute to him if Jock was brought back with another actor, in this case Steve Forrest who was a fine actor..

What do you all think? Was Dallas right to renege on making Wes Jock after all? Bobby's return effectively helped nix Steve Forrest from remaining on Dallas as a recast Jock Ewing, should they have followed through on the storyline with Wes? Or not brought Bobby back at all and have season nine end on the original cliffhanger where Ben is revealed to be Jock?

What do you all think?

View attachment 33912

I do think it was a wasted opportunity. Sometimes, I do think the way Bobby came back did ruin the show

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I do think it was a wasted opportunity. Sometimes, I do think the way Bobby came back did ruin the show

The show's popularity took a nosedive following the end of season ten when Victoria Principal left in that contrived tanker collision.

I guess viewers where insulted after living through his death and having that season all be a dream of Pam's stretched credibility resulting in the show's popularity starting to slide and viewers ultimately switching off! A shame! If only they had used a different explanation for his return rather than wiping out a whole season as a dream!

 

[Monzo]

I think Dallas wouldn't have changed much with NuJock. By the time Jock regained control of Ewing Oil, JR would already have done that crap with BD Calhoun and Ewing Oil would have ruined anyway.

The only interesting twist would have been who Miss Ellie would have chosen. I assume Jock, but he might have gotten these plots Clayton later had (Laurel Ellis, Battle for Southfork vs. Carter McKay). Miss Elllie would still have turned into Miss Marple, but with Jock instead of Clayton by her side, Lady Jessica wouldn't have a comeback.

What would have happened to Clayton? Probably Ray & Donna would have got a happy ending and Clayton would have fallen for Jenna until he went to Switzerland with her because of Priscilla Presley's departure.

 

[cws]

The show's popularity took a nosedive following the end of season ten when Victoria Principal left in that contrived tanker collision.

I guess viewers where insulted after living through his death and having that season all be a dream of Pam's stretched credibility resulting in the show's popularity starting to slide and viewers ultimately switching off! A shame! If only they had used a different explanation for his return rather than wiping out a whole season as a dream!

EXACTLY!! The problem is Larry and I guess Leonard wanted to get rid of the storylines from the previous season as well.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

EXACTLY!! The problem is Larry and I guess Leonard wanted to get rid of the storylines from the previous season as well.

Katzman certainly did as he had minimal input during season nine, being billed as a Creative Consultant on the show's closing credits.

Hagman apparently wasn't a fan of the storylines that year either.

 

[Ollie james]

I'd have accepted a jock return above a dream season anyday. Could have had interesting potential in terms of storylines too.

 

[Jon Ewing Jr.]

In hindsight Parmalee could have taken his rightful place as JE and Clayton could have moved over to Rays old house that flooded and Ray and Donna could have moved into their new home they built.

 

[the-lost-son]

It was a very intriguing storyline and I like the open ending which was very uncharacteristic for a soap at that time.

Resurrecting Jock would have been a huge mistake in my opinion because the whole dynamic of the show had changed since Jock's plane crash.

For example JR who was so devastated after his Daddy's death. He took the love he had for him and transfered it to his son John Ross. I've never seen such a thoughtful transition of a character's motivation.
All the bad things he did was to fight for his son's future (and not anymore for his dad's approval).

As sad as it was - Jim Davis leaving the show opened the door for so many storylines which would not have been possible with Jock around. He had such an impact on the first three years, but his impact was even bigger in season 4 (DVD4).

The whole Jock-recast-idea started during the dream season. The producers obviously tried very hard to copy Dynasty which took the no. 1 spot a year before.
So therfor we got many international storylines, endless wealth, less smarter writing and as Dynasty never had any issues recasting characters without 2nd thoughts - this idea came up.

On top of that I have no clue what a return of Jock would have contributed to the show?

Jock running Ewing Oil? Already done.
JR/Bobby fighting for his approval?
Already done. Furthermore they now had children on their own. Larry Hagman was 56 at that time. It would have been hard for me to accept a man of his age fighting for his daddy's approval.

or a love triangle between Miss Ellie/Clayton/ Jock?
Pointless, it would have damaged all of them.

Dallas was on a downwards movement at that time in '87. It probably was its last good storyline with the Ewing family in the center. But a recast wouldn't have saved the show.

 

[Michelle Stevens]

I never thought the idea of Jock coming back was a good idea. Jim Davis was Big Jock Ewing in every sense. Having said that, I do think Steve Forrest was a superb actor who could have been utilized in a different role. Maybe he could have been a younger brother of Jock. We never heard of Jason Ewing until Jamie showed up well into the series. He also could have been a Southworth taking claim to Southfork.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I like the possibility that Wes might have been Jock, but I didn't want that validated.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

I like the possibility that Wes might have been Jock, but I didn't want that validated.

That added to the whole plot. The ambiguity at the end worked, imho.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

That added to the whole plot. The ambiguity at the end worked, imho.

Yeah that line of Ray's:

"Even if you are Jock he would've disappeared off the face of the Earth before he'd break up a family like you have!"

Which is ironic because that's exactly what happens..

So was he or wasn't he Jock Ewing?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Yeah that line of Ray's:

"Even if you are Jock he would've disappeared off the face of the Earth before he'd break up a family like you have!"

Which is ironic because that's exactly what happens..

So was he or wasn't he Jock Ewing?

That was the point, I think. Wes did indeed disappear once Jeremy told him he only wanted to buy Ewing Oil to destroy the family.

It made Wes' departure -- and his true identity -- a mystery, never to be solved.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

That was the point, I think. Wes did indeed disappear once Jeremy told him he only wanted to buy Ewing Oil to destroy the family.

It made Wes' departure -- and his true identity -- a mystery, never to be solved.

Except that I know who he really is. He was Jock Ewing, the X ray results proved conclusively that's who he was. Wyatt Haines couldn't have been able to do that. Wes Parmalee was Jock Ewing all along.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Except that I know who he really is. He was Jock Ewing, the X ray results proved conclusively that's who he was. Wyatt Haines couldn't have been able to do that. Wes Parmalee was Jock Ewing all along.

That's one of the crimson herring that seemed to suggest he was Jock.

I still say the ambiguity, the unresolved nature of the plot, made it more fun -- something that might have been more resonant long-term if the series didn't soon fall apart (and if that pesky dream to revive Bobby hadn't been used).

But that's what makes DALLAS such a spectacular mess... albeit it a little more of a mess than I'd've liked.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

I like to think the Ewings, even JR, believed he was Jock on some level, especially because of the x-rays and how much he knew. However, they had already mourned and accepted Jock's death, and I think they did not want to emotionally revisit the situation.
I do wish Sue Ellen had behind the scenes exploited the situation to torment JR, and that Lucy and Gary had visited to meet Wes.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I'm thinking it was a missed opportunity by the show's Producer's not to keep Steve Forrest as a re-cast Jock Ewing on the show.

Even though they tried again in season ten with him playing Wes Parmalee, Jock's return ultimately got messed around with the return of Patrick Duffy as Bobby Ewing.

Would the show have been better off if Duffy had not returned and the original season nine cliffhanger had aired instead. Miss Ellie would've found Jock's things in Ben Stiver's bunkhouse, where upon Ben would've walked in and revealed himself to be Jock. A version of this cliffhanger was re-filmed again in season ten when Steve's character was now Wes Parmalee but this was only after Philip Capice, Peter Dunne, James H. Brown and Joel J. Feugenbaum where shown the door once Hagman wanted both Patrick Duffy and Leonard Katzman back!

Could Dallas have survived longer with Steve Forrest as Jock, whether the first Ben character or as Wes Parmalee in season ten? I think it was a wasted opportunity. I know that many fans where upset that Jim Davis was about to be replaced and felt it was an insult to his memory. I felt it was more of a tribute to him if Jock was brought back with another actor, in this case Steve Forrest who was a fine actor..

What do you all think? Was Dallas right to renege on making Wes Jock after all? Bobby's return effectively helped nix Steve Forrest from remaining on Dallas as a recast Jock Ewing, should they have followed through on the storyline with Wes? Or not brought Bobby back at all and have season nine end on the original cliffhanger where Ben is revealed to be Jock?

What do you all think?

View attachment 33912

Agree.
I thought Jim Davis was cast perfectly as Jock Ewing.
I also thought recasting with Steve Forrest would have given the writers many more storyline options
Steve Forrest is an excellent actor who could have been a strong presence on the show

 

[Toni]

I would have loved a scene with Pam visiting The Parmaleee. She slaps him= he´s not Jock. Easy.

Now seriously, I did love those scenes involving Wes and Swellin and Ray. The way they were acted and written, it really seemed he might be Jock. Anyway, all the things Wes was saying about the Ewings, he might have read them on the cover of "National Enquirer" (or "Dallas Press", for that matter). What I disliked most about the storyline is how weak made Miss Ellie look. I also thought that BBG wasn´t quite sure of how to play some scenes, which was quite rare in her.

SE: "What was the name of my late sister?"
Wes: "Takapa?"
SE: "You are a liar and a basterd!"​

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I would have loved a scene with Pam visiting The Parmaleee. She slaps him= he´s not Jock. Easy.

Now seriously, I did love those scenes involving Wes and Swellin and Ray. The way they were acted and written, it really seemed he might be Jock. Anyway, all the things Wes was saying about the Ewings, he might have read them on the cover of "National Enquirer" (or "Dallas Press", for that matter). What I disliked most about the storyline is how weak made Miss Ellie look. I also thought that BBG wasn´t quite sure of how to play some scenes, which was quite rare in her.

View attachment 35677
SE: "What was the name of my late sister?"
Wes: "Takapa?"
SE: "You are a liar and a basterd!"​

He would've said Kristin, Toni.

I've just been speaking with my Grand Father. He wishes you well by the way.