The Great Vivien Leigh

[Angela Channing]

must resoundingly disagree -- I thought Vivien Leigh was the primary reason to see the movie. She was perfectly cast, and she carries three-plus-hours of cinematic drama primarily on her shoulders alone. No other actress they tested or considered could've done such a fine job at Scarlett as Vivien did.

I accept that my opinion on this is not the generally accepted one but I found Vivien Leigh's performance in Gone With The Wind to be over the top, wild, uncontrolled and at times almost cartoonish. There was little light and shade in her performance and none of the subtly that was seen in, for example, Olivia de Haviland's portrayal of Melanie. As a style of acting in 1939 it was fine but watching her performance today it just seems hammy.

The character of Julie Marsden in the 1938 film Jezebel (played by Bette Davis) was essentially Scarlet O'Hara under a different name and watching this film I couldn't help thinking how much better Bette Davis would have been as the lead in Gone With The Wind but I understand that Selznick thought she wasn't pretty enough.

 

[Crimson]

Without Vivien Leigh and Hattie McDaniel, GWTW would be a turgid bore. Gable was Gable, as always. I like him and he's great in scoundrel mode, but he couldn't carry that movie. I adore Olivia De Havilland, but Melanie is by far my least favorite of her performances. I find her nauseatingly fey and saccharine; that's a Joan Fontaine performance. Leslie Howard was both miscast and gave a bad performance.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Part of the problem with Vivien Leigh's performance in GWTW was because of the director.

 

[ClassyCo]

I accept that my opinion on this is not the generally accepted one but I found Vivien Leigh's performance in Gone With The Wind to be over the top, wild, uncontrolled and at times almost cartoonish. There was little light and shade in her performance and none of the subtly that was seen in, for example, Olivia de Haviland's portrayal of Melanie. As a style of acting in 1939 it was fine but watching her performance today it just seems hammy.

The character of Julie Marsden in the 1938 film Jezebel (played by Bette Davis) was essentially Scarlet O'Hara under a different name and watching this film I couldn't help thinking how much better Bette Davis would have been as the lead in Gone With The Wind but I understand that Selznick thought she wasn't pretty enough.

We can agree to disagree on Vivien's performance as Scarlett. I can understand that everyone may not be a fan of it; I'm a big boy and I can swallow it. I don't think she's rolling over in her grave because of some online forum criticism for a performance that's over eighty years old (stealing some of Crimson's lingo).

Bette Davis was a big contender for Scarlett for a long time; the public voted her as their top choice for the part sometime around 1936. Davis herself desperately pleaded for the part, but Selznick never seriously considered her. He felt the same about Davis as he did Katharine Hepburn: they didn't have enough sex appeal for the part in his mind. Davis wrote in her 1982 memoir that it was "insane" that she not be cast as Scarlett. She held a resentment for Vivien Leigh for the rest of her life; so much was her resentment that she flat-out refused Leigh's casting as Cousin Miriam in HUSH...HUSH, SWEET CHARLOTTE after Joan Crawford walked. Davis apparently told producers Leigh "wasn't right to play a Southern belle."

Selznick was also apparently irked that Warner Brothers did JEZEBEL in 1938, which he saw as their attempt to "cash in" on the GONE WITH THE WIND momentum he had generated. Apparently all the major studios had declined the story to JEZEBEL for a few years, but WB eventually snatched up it as something of a consolation for Davis not getting cast as Scarlett. Davis won her second and last Oscar for JEZEBEL in 1939, the year before Vivien's.

I'll also agree with you on how much I like Olivia de Havilland as Melanie. De Havilland's sister Joan Fontaine was apparently an early contender for Melanie, but she rebuffed, wanting instead to play Scarlett (as was every other actress in Hollywood). Fontaine allegedly suggested De Havilland for the job, who accepted the role with great enthusiasm. De Havilland had to plead with Jack Warner to loan her out to Selznick, but she ultimately got her way.​

 

[Crimson]

Part of the problem with Vivien Leigh's performance in GWTW was because of the director.

I don't consider it a problem per se, but Fleming -- under Selznick's guidance -- did push Leigh to give a more florid performance. Perhaps her acting would have been more delicate under Cukor, but a garish soap seems to justify a florid performance. It's unlikely any of the other contenders -- especially Davis, known for going theatrically hammy -- would have given a more subtle performance under the circumstances.

 

[ClassyCo]

Without Vivien Leigh and Hattie McDaniel, GWTW would be a turgid bore. Gable was Gable, as always. I like him and he's great in scoundrel mode, but he couldn't carry that movie. I adore Olivia De Havilland, but Melanie is by far my least favorite of her performances. I find her nauseatingly fey and saccharine; that's a Joan Fontaine performance. Leslie Howard was both miscast and gave a bad performance.

I thought Olivia de Havilland was good as Melanie, and she gives one of her better performances in my opinion. She's a perfect balance and counterpart to Leigh's over-the-top portrayal of Scarlett. I would've liked Melanie far less had Joan Fontaine played her. I've been a fan of her.

I'd agree that Gable was Gable as always. Not much of a range as an actor, but he was always a star.

Leslie Howard was a terrible bore. Almost anyone could've done better.​

I don't consider it a problem per se, but Fleming -- under Selznick's guidance -- did push Leigh to give a more florid performance. Perhaps her acting would have been more delicate under Cukor, but a garish soap seems to justify a florid performance. It's unlikely any of the other contenders -- especially Davis, known for going theatrically hammy -- would have given a more subtle performance under the circumstances.

I'm sure Davis would've hammed it up more. That was her forte.

Part of the problem with Vivien Leigh's performance in GWTW was because of the director.

Yeah, Leigh and De Havilland fought for Cukor to stay, and they apparently visited him to be coached in their performances. Gable was buddies with Fleming, and therefore was more on-board with his view for the picture.​

 

[Crimson]

I'm sure Davis would've hammed it up more. That was her forte.

I think Bette would have been terrible as Scarlett. Not because she would be too florid -- it's one of the times her overacting would be justified -- but because she was too sour-faced. I could never believe Clark Gable would chase after her for 4 hours.

 

[ClassyCo]

I think Bette would have been terrible as Scarlett. Not because she would be too florid -- it's one of the times her overacting would be justified -- but because she was too sour-faced. I could never believe Clark Gable would chase after her for 4 hours.

That's the same thing Selznick said about Davis and Hepburn.

 

[Crimson]

Davis would have needed Errol Flynn as Rhett then; he seemed willing to chase anything in a skirt.

 

[ClassyCo]

Davis would have needed Errol Flynn as Rhett then; he seemed willing to chase anything in a skirt.

Warner Brothers allegedly offered a "package deal" in 1937/38 to Selznick: Davis for Scarlett, Flynn for Rhett, and De Havilland for Melanie.​

 

[Crimson]

Warner Brothers allegedly offered a "package deal" in 1937/38 to Selznick: Davis for Scarlett, Flynn for Rhett, and De Havilland for Melanie.

Add in Leslie Howard and, ooff, what a dog that would have been. On the plus side, we'd be spared the recurring "Should GWTW be cancelled?" discussions, because hardly anyone would remember it.

 

[Crimson]

 

[Crimson]

Vivien's screen test (with Olivier) for REBECCA.

For comparison, Joan's screen test:

 

[Alexis]

I love Leigh and don't particularly like Joan Fontaine but I think they made the right casting choice for Rebecca. On paper you'd think that Leigh would be great in the role but seeing the screen test proves otherwise. She's beautiful but that clipped proper way of speaking kills the character. I think Fontaine works in the role. There's a nervousness in her portrayal that really works. As if she's constantly on edge in fear of loosing her mind and her whole self. Vivien Leigh's too strong and solid, you don't imagine she'd lose her mind at all. She'd remain calm and keep pouring the tea.

 

[Crimson]

I love Leigh and don't particularly like Joan Fontaine but I think they made the right casting choice for Rebecca

Based on the screen tests, I agree. If she had gotten the part, I suspect her performance would have been different after working with Selznick & Hitchcock. In fairness, Olivier isn't very good in that screen test either; he clearly had not yet 'found' the character. But since the screen test was basically a job interview, I think Vivien was rightly passed over. If the title character actually appeared on screen, Vivien would have made a great Rebecca.

I'm at best indifferent to Joan Fontaine, but her skittishness works well for the unnamed character.

 

[ClassyCo]

I've never seen REBECCA, and I've never really wanted to either. Without watching the film (or these screen tests), I'd say Vivien should've gotten the part. Yeah, I'll admit I'm partial to Vivien, and that I've never been a Joan Fontaine fan (even though I've tried to be).​

 

[Alexis]

I've never seen REBECCA, and I've never really wanted to either. Without watching the film (or these screen tests), I'd say Vivien should've gotten the part. Yeah, I'll admit I'm partial to Vivien, and that I've never been a Joan Fontaine fan (even though I've tried to be).​

She just isn't at all the right type for the unnamed role in the film. Like Crimson says she'd have been perfect for the role of Rebecca had she been featured in the film. She's too strong, too much presence and too assured and confident. That's not at all what the role was, and Joan Fontaine really does nail it. I think you would feel differently if you actually saw the film. It's a very good film by the way.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I love REBECCA but I've never really liked Fontaine in the role of the second wife -- skittishness is one thing, but simpering and cloying is another. So I just try and overlook her whenever i watch it.

 

[Crimson]

REBECCA is one of the great films of the 1940s, its leading lady more or less aside. I don't have a problem with Joan's performance, per se; I think she finds the right level of gauche awkwardness. I just don't like her very much as an actress, which skewers my sympathy for the character. (In SUSPICION, I was disappointed Cary Grant didn't kill her!)

Olivia, perhaps? If she had been able to give the kind of performance she did nearly a decade later in THE HEIRESS, she could have been a great Mrs. DeWinter and far more likeable.

 

[Alexis]

Yea, Joan Fontaine is up there with Deborah Kerr for me as one of those uptight prissy, weirdly affected and unnatural actresses. Though I think she's probably at her best in REBECCA.