Watching NuWho

alexpaige

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Seriously?

Patrick Troughton played the recorder but Capaldi can't play the electric guitar?
Peter Davison could play a string instrument but Capaldi can't play guitar
The Doctor has vast knowledge but can't play a musical instrument?
Yes, seriously.

You obviously feel very strongly about your opinion so there is no point in trying to debate you.

I will just clarify that I have no issue with the Doctor playing a musical instrument - even an electric guitar come to that. The issue is the way that scene was presented - if you can't see that having the Doctor entering wearing shades, playing an electric guitar - in short posturing like a rock star - is a complete betrayal of the ethos of the Doctor as an outsider, a person not concerned with appearing 'cool' and in fact either disparaging of such notions (as regularly exemplified by Pertwee and Hartnell) or entirely oblivious to them (as per Troughton, Tom Baker, Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy) then I don't know what to say.

I have friends who are even longer time fans than me and they feel the same as I do about Moffat and the current series so I guess we will just be happy to be in the "exteme minority"
 

pete lashmar

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That very scene is when me and my partner looked at each other and went "Nah" - it was the single most ridiculous scene that screamed "Doctor Who is in trouble".

Moffat may have written some brilliant episodes, but his tenure took the show down, this is where ratings started to fall, by the end of the Capaldi era they had dropped significantly.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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Yes, seriously.

You obviously feel very strongly about your opinion so there is no point in trying to debate you.

I will just clarify that I have no issue with the Doctor playing a musical instrument - even an electric guitar come to that. The issue is the way that scene was presented - if you can't see that having the Doctor entering wearing shades, playing an electric guitar - in short posturing like a rock star - is a complete betrayal of the ethos of the Doctor as an outsider, a person not concerned with appearing 'cool' and in fact either disparaging of such notions (as regularly exemplified by Pertwee and Hartnell) or entirely oblivious to them (as per Troughton, Tom Baker, Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy) then I don't know what to say.

I have friends who are even longer time fans than me and they feel the same as I do about Moffat and the current series so I guess we will just be happy to be in the "exteme minority"
I have strong opinions about accuracy.
I don't know what you are trying to say but the FACT is that ratings are at an all time low, Disney and the BBC have no confirmed plans to continue the show, we don't have an Appreciation Index because the BBC will not release it, Moffat delivered far better ratings, and Millions of fans no longer watch this travesty, which is basically bad fan fiction on a bigger budget.

Outsider? Did you forget the part about being scientific advisor to UNIT?
Chibnall contradicted the entire history of the show.
Remember season 17 when Douglas Adams introduced all that humor?
The horrendous scene near the end of "Nightmare of Eden" which was completely????, certainly not" Doctorish"
The "Horns of Nimon" was arguably the worst story in the show's history up until then
Daleks and the Stairs?
None of that made an impression? Wow

Single Worst scene? A Dalek being defeated with sticks and stones is better Wow!
 
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Jock Ewing Fan

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That very scene is when me and my partner looked at each other and went "Nah" - it was the single most ridiculous scene that screamed "Doctor Who is in trouble".

Moffat may have written some brilliant episodes, but his tenure took the show down, this is where ratings started to fall, by the end of the Capaldi era they had dropped significantly.
The show has never recovered from the Chibnall era where ratings fell to all-time lows, and the Appreciation index
fell and fell, and Millions of fans stopped watching by its end
And I like that scene, and the fans that I know think Capaldi is a great actor and a great choice for Doctor Who.
Ratings fell in part because of a change in time slot
During the Chibnall era, Millions of fans stop watching (except for the first season, due mostly to a curiosity factor)
and have never returned.
And Capaldi playing guitar is worse than a Dalek being defeated by sticks and stones? Wow
 
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Angela Channing

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Ratings for Doctor Who are low because ratings for all TV shows are low due to there being much more competition. That said, Doctor Who is still one of the most watched shows on the BBC and other than soap operas, it consistently has the highest audience for any drama currently on any channel. It's only beaten by a few quizzes, news and non-scripted lifestyle shows, which don't sell internationally or to streaming platforms as well as Doctor Who. By most metrics, it still is a successful show. If producers decide to rest the show for a period, it is more likely to be due to increasing production cost than its audience figures.
 

Angela Channing

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Just to provide some figures to support my previous post, here are the most recent UK TV viewing figures available; they are for the week 12th - 18th May 2025.

Screenshot (608).jpg

Typically, this series of Doctor Who gets around 3 million viewers (consolidated figures including iPlayer viewers). It consistently is in the top 30 UK shows which is broadly similar (in fact slightly better) than the show's performance when Peter Capaldi was the Doctor.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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Just to provide some figures to support my previous post, here are the most recent UK TV viewing figures available; they are for the week 12th - 18th May 2025.

View attachment 56418

Typically, this series of Doctor Who gets around 3 million viewers (consolidated figures including iPlayer viewers). It consistently is in the top 30 UK shows which is broadly similar (in fact slightly better) than the show's performance when Peter Capaldi was the Doctor.
Ordinarily, I would not respond to such misinformation, but what you posted is so factually wrong, it is beyond ...factually wrong.
Capaldi Season 8 : UK ratings ranged from 6.82 to 9.17 million
Capaldi Season 9: UK ratings ranged from 5.63 to 8.28 million
Capaldi Season 10: UK ratings ranged from 4.73 to 7.92 million.

According to basic math, that is a lot more than 3 million

And the ratings for the Disney + series 1 and 2 are even worse when compared to the 3 stories with the 14th Doctor, which averaged 7.2 million,
which were also on Disney +
And all of these episodes are from the Disney + era so it is comparing apples to apples
That indicates that over half of that audience is no longer watching Doctor Who if 3 million, the number that you mention, is the standard for the new Disney + series
Again, it is math

And you cherry picked one episode, which had higher ratings due to being broadcast between a sports event and Eurovision.
it is not representative of the season, in which there have been much lower ratings than Disney Season 1 (see Deadline Article)
You did not mention that overnight ratings for the next episode fell to approximately 1.8 million,
a steep drop from episode 6's overnight rating at approximately 2.57 million
You did not mention that some episodes have not even reached 3 million, and only 2 episodes in season 14 reached 4 million.
Only the two Christmas specials posted better ratings that were higher than 4.06 million

By selectively mentioning one outlier episode, your post lacks both context and completeness

And the FACT is that Disney and the BBC have no confirmed plans to continue the show.
Considering all the money that Disney spent (Approximately $100 million ) the low ratings, which are declining from already low ratings, are not acceptable.
Budgets matter

It does not matter where the show places on BBC on the night or during the week
It matters if the BBC and Disney think that the series should continue, and they clearly do not
because there is no confirmed Christmas special or series 3

Again you are factually wrong, and also wrong to represent the series' ratings by specifying the number from one outlier episode







 
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alexpaige

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I have strong opinions about accuracy.
I don't know what you are trying to say but the FACT is that ratings are at an all time low, Disney and the BBC have no confirmed plans to continue the show, we don't have an Appreciation Index because the BBC will not release it, Moffat delivered far better ratings, and Millions of fans no longer watch this travesty, which is basically bad fan fiction on a bigger budget.

Outsider? Did you forget the part about being scientific advisor to UNIT?
Chibnall contradicted the entire history of the show.
Remember season 17 when Douglas Adams introduced all that humor?
The horrendous scene near the end of "Nightmare of Eden" which was completely????, certainly not" Doctorish"
The "Horns of Nimon" was arguably the worst story in the show's history up until then
Daleks and the Stairs?
None of that made an impression? Wow

Single Worst scene? A Dalek being defeated with sticks and stones is better Wow!

If you have strong feelings about accuracy, here are some accurate facts:

1. The BBC have said repeatedly and consistently (since before Gatwa's first season went out, I believe) that a decision on Disney's involvement in future episodes will not be made until after this season finishes screening. Given that, to present the fact that "Disney and the BBC have no confirmed plans to continue the show" as a smoking gun is neither accurate nor fair.

2. The Doctor being a scientific adviser to UNIT did not negate his outsider status - far from it. The 3rd Doctor was openly contemptuous of the Brig's and UNIT's military minded approach and there are numerous examples of this throughout the Pertwee era (and into Tom Baker as well)

3. "Chibnall contradicted the entire history of the show" is opinion not fact. There is a strong argument to be made that everything Chibnall did could fit with established continuity.

Personally, I think Moffat's approach to time travel, from his first season onwards, with the Doctor being able to move back and forth across his own timestream in Moffat's "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" way was a complete contradiction of the show's established continuity and made nonsense of the whole concept by removing any element of jeopardy, but hey, what do I know?

And yes I remember season 17, Nightmare of Eden was crap, so was Horns of Nimon. But the rockstar posturing scene from Moffat was much much worse.
 
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Angela Channing

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Ordinarily, I would not respond to such misinformation, but what you posted is so factually wrong, it is beyond ...factually wrong.
Capaldi Season 8 : UK ratings ranged from 6.82 to 9.17 million
Capaldi Season 9: UK ratings ranged from 5.63 to 8.28 million
Capaldi Season 10: UK ratings ranged from 4.73 to 7.92 million.

According to basic math, that is a lot more than 3 million

And the ratings for the Disney + series 1 and 2 are even worse when compared to the 3 stories with the 14th Doctor, which averaged 7.2 million,
which were also on Disney +
And all of these episodes are from the Disney + era so it is comparing apples to apples
That indicates that over half of that audience is no longer watching Doctor Who if 3 million, the number that you mention, is the standard for the new Disney + series
Again, it is math

And you cherry picked one episode, which had higher ratings due to being broadcast between a sports event and Eurovision.
it is not representative of the season, in which there have been much lower ratings than Disney Season 1 (see Deadline Article)
You did not mention that overnight ratings for the next episode fell to approximately 1.8 million,
a steep drop from episode 6's overnight rating at approximately 2.57 million
You did not mention that some episodes have not even reached 3 million, and only 2 episodes in season 14 reached 4 million.
Only the two Christmas specials posted better ratings that were higher than 4.06 million

By selectively mentioning one outlier episode, your post lacks both context and completeness

And the FACT is that Disney and the BBC have no confirmed plans to continue the show.
Considering all the money that Disney spent (Approximately $100 million ) the low ratings, which are declining from already low ratings, are not acceptable.
Budgets matter

It does not matter where the show places on BBC on the night or during the week
It matters if the BBC and Disney think that the series should continue, and they clearly do not
because there is no confirmed Christmas special or series 3

Again you are factually wrong, and also wrong to represent the series' ratings by specifying the number from one outlier episode







You are completely missing my point. All TV shows have fewer viewers these days so the more relevant metric to use is how it compares with other shows broadcast during the same week. The current Doctor Who series generally ranks in the low to mid 20s most popular show of the week whereas when Peter Capaldi was The Doctor, it averaged in high 20s to low 30s most popular.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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You are completely missing my point. All TV shows have fewer viewers these days so the more relevant metric to use is how it compares with other shows broadcast during the same week. The current Doctor Who series generally ranks in the low to mid 20s most popular show of the week whereas when Peter Capaldi was The Doctor, it averaged in high 20s to low 30s most popular.
I didn't miss your point. You posted erroneous information about the viewing figures for the Capaldi era and you misrepresented the performance
of the new series on the basis of an outlier episode.

Doctor Who does not usually finish that high in the ratings from what I have noticed,
and the best shows might be best among a mediocre group
Ranking does not necessarily indicate quality, one way or the other.
It is the equivalent of a sports league with 2 or 3 good teams and the rest being mediocre to poor.
but it is a moot point since there are no plans for a Christmas special or a series 3
Clearly, Disney and the BBC are disappointed in the ratings.
And Capaldi's run, as I have verified in the previous post, was far more successful in viewership, and
presumably in the Audience Appreciation Index, since the BBC won't release the numbers
And Capaldi's era was successful enough to continue the show, unlike now.
And the ratings positions for the new series have decreased over the season, except for the one outlier episode
Clearly, the BBC and Disney are disappointed in the ratings since
there are no plans for a Christmas special or a series 3
The facts and data do not support your misinformation
 
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pete lashmar

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I read today that the show hasn't even entered the Nilsen rating for Disney+ in the U.S and if you google Doctor Who ratings news it looks pretty dire.

Ratings have dropped from around 5m during Jodie's era to as low as 2.5m for the current series.

The Interstella Song Contest gained a bigger audience, but within 15 minutes of it finishing and Eurovision starting viewing figures doubled and went onto a high of around 6.5m.

Overnight ratings for WHO are still the biggest viewership, with catch up adding less than half onto it after 7 days. The show is definitely on a downward spiral.

Many viewers old and new just haven't taken to the current era, where fantasy has replaced sci-fi. The pantheon of gods has not created any excitement at all and when you can solve a Doctor Who story with magic, viewers turn off.

Personally I think the BBC do need to take a breath and given the show a rest, and during that rest they need to get rid of RTD, Bad Wolf and everyone connected to the current series.

They need to bring in someone who is not a "Fan Boy" - we've had RTD, Moffat & Chibnal chipping away at the show's lores since day one. The show needs to go back to a Producer and writer basis - the showrunner has far too much power - RTD is doing whatever he wants and no one is saying no.

The show needs a producer with some knowledge of the show obviously, but more importantly the show needs to return to it's basic roots - The Doctor, having adventures through time and space with a companion, facing monsters and villains.

I would also say that it needs to go back to a serial format, even if it's 4x 2 parters or so - bring back the cliffhangers - in the days of catch up and streaming viewers can easily catch up on what happened the previous week.

If Doctor Who is to be a hit again, pull it back to it's roots, stop the the messaging that RTD has force fed into the show and just tell amazingly fun sci-fi stories about The Doctor saving the universe.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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If you have strong feelings about accuracy, here are some accurate facts:

1. The BBC have said repeatedly and consistently (since before Gatwa's first season went out, I believe) that a decision on Disney's involvement in future episodes will not be made until after this season finishes screening. Given that, to present the fact that "Disney and the BBC have no confirmed plans to continue the show" as a smoking gun is neither accurate nor fair.

2. The Doctor being a scientific adviser to UNIT did not negate his outsider status - far from it. The 3rd Doctor was openly contemptuous of the Brig's and UNIT's military minded approach and there are numerous examples of this throughout the Pertwee era (and into Tom Baker as well)

3. "Chibnall contradicted the entire history of the show" is opinion not fact. There is a strong argument to be made that everything Chibnall did could fit with established continuity.

Personally, I think Moffat's approach to time travel, from his first season onwards, with the Doctor being able to move back and forth across his own timestream in Moffat's "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" way was a complete contradiction of the show's established continuity and made nonsense of the whole concept by removing any element of jeopardy, but hey, what do I know?

And yes I remember season 17, Nightmare of Eden was crap, so was Horns of Nimon. But the rockstar posturing scene from Moffat was much much worse.
You are wrong on every count, and nothing that you posted is factual, just inaccuracies and observations/opinions

The FACT is that there are no plans for a Christmas special or a third series. Please read. It is accurate and fair to say that there are no plans to continue the show, and Disney has not issued any statement to the contrary. Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so. The BBC isn't denying a pause, or whatever you want to call it
It is similar to 1989, when there were plans by the production team for a season 27, but the BBC
did not authorize a continuation of the show
Pertwee's Doctor was always interacting with officials, That is not outsider.
It might be closer to the 'Scientist as rebel" trope, but he is still working with them
Tom Baker's Doctor was clearly intended to depart from this insider status
Moffatt was not the only producer to deal with Time Travel contradictions. The mere fact that there have been multiple Doctor episodes confirms that
Did you see "Day of The Daleks" "Father's Day" "Trial of a Time Lord" "Mawdryn Undead" River Song in the "TENNANT era, and
Moffatt did a great job developing that character and her impact on Time lines.
They all address such things, as do many other stories pre Moffatt
It is a show about time and space. Moffatt explored it more, and quite innovatively
And unlike now, Moffatt delivered in the ratings department
No, Chibnall created a new narrative out of nothing and it it literally contradicts the Whole series
William Hartnell is the First Doctor, and that has been confirmed often

You want to dismiss an entire era on the basis of one scene? Patrick Troughton played the Recorder - the Doctor can play an instrument
I could name numerous cringe moments from every era, but this one scene somehow negates everything? WOW
The current series is such a farce and travesty, that every episode is worse and worse
The entire era is cringe
The Doctor crying seemingly every episode is far worse than what you mentioned
In "Pyramids of Mars" Tom Baker described his seemingly "inhuman" response - that is far more effective,
as was Pertwee's stunned look at the end of "The Silurians" , Davison's frustration at the end of "Warriors of the Deep"
and Colin Baker's dismay at the end of "Attack of the Cybermen" That was good writing, good directing, good acting not this
unrecognizable series that is Doctor Who in name only

Is it any wonder the show is not being renewed?

Your observations are all subjective, not to mention selective, inaccurate and nonfactual
 
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Angela Channing

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Yes, the ratings of Doctor Who have nosedived but so has it for all TV programmes. EastEnders is regularly the top show on BBC1, back in 2017 when the 12th Doctor left, it was getting audience of 8.4 million and the last week for which consolidated data is available for (12th - 18th May 2025), it was 3.5 million. Britain's Got Talent semi-finals (one of ITV highest rated shows) in 2017 typically got around 8 million viewers, two weeks ago it was 4.3 million.

I'll use these figures for Doctor Who:

Capaldi Season 10: UK ratings ranged from 4.73 to 7.92 million.

I will go back 3 weeks as some people think the audience figure for The Interstellar Song Contest is not relevant. For the week ending 11th May, Doctor Who had 2.7 million viewers, which although significantly lower than in 2017, in relation to how TV audiences in general have fallen over the past 8 years, it is still doing relatively well.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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Yes, the ratings of Doctor Who have nosedived but so has it for all TV programmes. EastEnders is regularly the top show on BBC1, back in 2017 when the 12th Doctor left, it was getting audience of 8.4 million and the last week for which consolidated data is available for (12th - 18th May 2025), it was 3.5 million. Britain's Got Talent semi-finals (one of ITV highest rated shows) in 2017 typically got around 8 million viewers, two weeks ago it was 4.3 million.

I'll use these figures for Doctor Who:



I will go back 3 weeks as some people think the audience figure for The Interstellar Song Contest is not relevant. For the week ending 11th May, Doctor Who had 2.7 million viewers, which although significantly lower than in 2017, in relation to how TV audiences in general have fallen over the past 8 years, it is still doing relatively well.
The show is not doing well. There are no plans for a Christmas special, or a series 3 That is FACT
Ratings have dwindled across the entire Disney era, as I have posted the links to the actual numbers
Disney spent a lot of money. The results have not been what Disney and the BBC wanted for that big budget, clearly
You continue to post erroneous and misleading information, actually misinformation,
fail to acknowledge it when the facts prove you wrong, and then resort to deflection

Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so
 
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Angela Channing

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The show is not doing well. There are no plans for a Christmas special, or a series 3 That is FACT
Ratings have dwindled across the entire Disney era, as I have posted the links to the actual numbers
Disney spent a lot of money. The results have not been what Disney and the BBC wanted for that big budget, clearly
Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so
I don't know why you're so negative about how Doctor Who is doing but regarding the ratings, I can't imagine the BBC would be disappointed with the ratings when relative to other shows it has maintained it popularity. As far as I'm aware, Disney+ hasn't released viewing figures for the current season but their most recent Press Release about the show they sounded very upbeat, including the following quote (my use of bold):

"Doctor Who remains one of the most watched programmes on iPlayer and was a top 5 series on Disney+ globally every week it aired, as well as being the BBC’s top drama for under 35’s this year making it one of the biggest programmes for the demographic across all streamers and broadcasters."

These are the FACTS.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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I don't know why you're so negative about how Doctor Who is doing but regarding the ratings, I can't imagine the BBC would be disappointed with the ratings when relative to other shows it has maintained it popularity. As far as I'm aware, Disney+ hasn't released viewing figures for the current season but their most recent Press Release about the show they sounded very upbeat, including the following quote (my use of bold):

"Doctor Who remains one of the most watched programmes on iPlayer and was a top 5 series on Disney+ globally every week it aired, as well as being the BBC’s top drama for under 35’s this year making it one of the biggest programmes for the demographic across all streamers and broadcasters."

These are the FACTS.
No those are not the facts, that is spin based on incomplete and selective information

I am not negative, I am only reporting the FACTS, something you don't want to acknowledge.

There are no plans for a Christmas special and/or a series 3
That simple FACT indicates that the show has serious problems, it is so self-evident, anyone can understand it
That is not positive in any way, shape or form
You continue to post erroneous information and fail to acknowledge it when you are proven wrong.
instead resorting to deflection and more misinformation, it is only spin since Disney is clearly uninterested in continuing its involvement
because if that info is so positive, then Disney would be willing, presumably, to go forward with its involvement
 
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Angela Channing

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No those are not the facts, that is spin

I am not negative, I am only reporting the FACTS, something you don't want to acknowledge.

There are no plans for a Christmas special and/or a series 3
That simple FACT indicates that the show has serious problems, it is so self-evident, anyone can understand it
That is not positive in any way, shape or form
You continue to post erroneous information and fail to acknowledge it when you are proven wrong.
instead resorting to deflection and more misinformation
You do not post a source for that quote, and even if it is true, it is only spin since Disney is clearly uninterested in continuing its involvement
because if that info is so positive, then Disney would be willing, presumably, to go forward with its involvement
I provided the link to the Disney+ Press release in which they were very upbeat about Doctor Who's performance on their streaming service. This being from the horse's mouth, I tend to believe is more accurate that the negative slant you like to put on anything relating to the current series of Doctor Who. The show doesn't have serious problems as far as Disney+ are concerned, on the contrary, they appear to be very happy with how it's performing.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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I provided the link to the Disney+ Press release in which they were very upbeat about Doctor Who's performance on their streaming service. This being from the horse's mouth, I tend to believe is more accurate that the negative slant you like to put on anything relating to the current series of Doctor Who. The show doesn't have serious problems as far as Disney+ are concerned, on the contrary, they appear to be very happy with how it's performing.
Again, the FACT is no Christmas special and no series 3 has been authorized
That is the definition of a serious problem
There is no way that is positive in any reality.
Disney and the BBC are clearly displeased.
Disney and the BBC will put the most positive spin on any show that they possibly can,
that is not surprising, they don't want to diminish their own product,
but the decision making is not apparent until it is time to authorize a continuation of the show.
Clearly, that is not going to happen
If Disney is so happy about, why aren't they mentioning future plans?
Their silence speaks volumes
I am not negative, I am realistic and my posts are factual
If anyone is slanting it is you with erroneous info - actually misinformation
You resort to deflection, spin and incomplete out of context info (misinformation)
and you have no answer when you are proven false,
other than more misinformation
Facts and data do not support what you say
Just because you want something to be true does not make it so
It is amazing that anyone can reach any different conclusion,
because the FACT is that there are no plans to continue the series.

That is called reality
 
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