Were Afton & Rebecca the worst women in Dallas?
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Toni
Maximum Member
But had a big redeeming quality: she hated Jenna as much as us the audience, and almost got her to spend a few years in prison. Thanks to her we had the best Presley scenes...
Toni
Maximum Member
Oh yeah. She became the Barnes home version of the porcelain dog: just decoration.
Toni
Maximum Member
She was "Dallas´s" unsung hero. She deserved a spin-off series. "The Perils of Angelica Nero", or something like that. Either this, or that:
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
I don’t know if Afton was the worse, but she was pathetic. Cliff treated her like dirt and she went to bed with a man she wasn’t even interested just to get Cliff an oil deal? SMH
Dallas was a great show but they did not value women at all.
Dallas was a great show but they did not value women at all.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Showing a woman making bad relationship choices is the show "not valuing women at all?"
Anyway, in my mind, Angelica was an exotic deep-cover assassin hired anonymously by Katherine to knock-off Ewings, which is why Bobby had to be hidden away while he recuperated from his coma.
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
I stand by that. Other than perhaps Miss Ellie, every other main cast woman on the show had a massive flaw. Seriously, how many women slept around just for a deal? That was actually Marilee’s persona.
Toni
Maximum Member
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
I'm glad you're standing by it, but the guys didn't also have massive flaws?
And Miss Ellie was the most neglected of the major female characters!
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
And how many times did JR sleep around just for a deal?
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
All the characters were flawed. Let's compare Afton to Miss Ellie. Afton let Cliff walk all over her to a point. Miss Ellie let Jock take over raising JR, to his detriment and let Jock and JR run roughshod over Gary. She also openly favored Gary, a major parenting flaw.
Afton slept with a man to secure a deal to help the man she loved. Miss Ellie married Jock, whom she didn't love at the time, to save Southfork. Which is worse?
I know some will come at me for implying Miss Ellie is on the same level as Afton. I'm not really saying that as much as there's a lot of delicious moral ambiguity running through all the characters, which makes them so fascinating and relatable.
As far as how the show treated women, I agree it didn't always treat them as well as it could have, but in Afton's defense, she was shown to be smarter than Cliff (and sometimes Pam). He looked like a fool compared to her.
Just saying
Afton slept with a man to secure a deal to help the man she loved. Miss Ellie married Jock, whom she didn't love at the time, to save Southfork. Which is worse?
I know some will come at me for implying Miss Ellie is on the same level as Afton. I'm not really saying that as much as there's a lot of delicious moral ambiguity running through all the characters, which makes them so fascinating and relatable.
As far as how the show treated women, I agree it didn't always treat them as well as it could have, but in Afton's defense, she was shown to be smarter than Cliff (and sometimes Pam). He looked like a fool compared to her.
Just saying
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
All the characters were flawed. Let's compare Afton to Miss Ellie. Afton let Cliff walk all over her to a point. Miss Ellie let Jock take over raising JR, to his detriment and let Jock and JR run roughshod over Gary. She also openly favored Gary, a major parenting flaw.
Afton slept with a man to secure a deal to help the man she loved. Miss Ellie married Jock, whom she didn't love at the time, to save Southfork. Which is worse?
I know some will come at me for implying Miss Ellie is on the same level as Afton. I'm not really saying that as much as there's a lot of delicious moral ambiguity running through all the characters, which makes them so fascinating and relatable.
As far as how the show treated women, I agree it didn't always treat them as well as it could have, but in Afton's defense, she was shown to be smarter than Cliff (and sometimes Pam). He looked like a fool compared to her.
Just saying
Afton slept with a man to secure a deal to help the man she loved. Miss Ellie married Jock, whom she didn't love at the time, to save Southfork. Which is worse?
I know some will come at me for implying Miss Ellie is on the same level as Afton. I'm not really saying that as much as there's a lot of delicious moral ambiguity running through all the characters, which makes them so fascinating and relatable.
As far as how the show treated women, I agree it didn't always treat them as well as it could have, but in Afton's defense, she was shown to be smarter than Cliff (and sometimes Pam). He looked like a fool compared to her.
Just saying
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
Never said they didn’t. The undervalue of women on Dallas goes way further than sleeping around for an oil deal. How many times did one the men need a sedative to “calm them down.” Both Sue Ellen and Pam had to go see a psychiatrist. When Cliff attempted suicide, did he seek professional help? How many times did one of the Ewing men openly cheat on their wives and be forgiven almost immediately? Pam hires a detective to look for Mark, the detectives first move is to call Bobby to see if it’s OK. Just heard this one today. Rebecca asked Afton does she love Cliff. Afton says yes. Rebecca says “then fight for him.” Why should she? Cliff treated her like dirt and still have the hots for Sue Ellen. JR can call up a woman at the drop of a hat to seduce anyone to blackmail them.
Lol…Again, Dallas was a great show, but it would have problems if it was on TV today.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
But portraying misogyny isn't the same thing as being misogynistic. Although the show was imperfect in this capacity, but the idea that DALLAS' women were somehow merely decorations is way overstated.
Yes, it would have problems if it were on today, but the show would be labeled "chauvinistic" unless all the women were shown running everything.
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
Could any of the examples you gave regarding mental health be the show just portraying ideas held at the time in terms of men and women, not to mention being in Texas? What I mean is were the female characters more likely to agree to go to therapy because women are generally more comfortable discussing their feelings, as opposed to men who were taught to "suck it up and get back to work?"
Angela Channing
Telly Talk Veteran
She may not be the absolute worst but a strong case could be made for Miss Ellie. She was in a relationship with Digger but dropped him faster than Marilee Stone used to drop her knickers so she (Ellie) could seduce Jock when he struck oil and forced him to marry her by telling him she was pregnant even though the child might have been Digger's. Throughout her motherhood, he never hid that she had favourites amongst her children. She allowed JR to take Lucy from Valene so she could bring her up on Southfork against Valene's wishes.
What makes Ellie stand out as being one of the worse was that her actions were the root cause of a lot of the conflict that we saw in the series and the events that flowed from it.
What makes Ellie stand out as being one of the worse was that her actions were the root cause of a lot of the conflict that we saw in the series and the events that flowed from it.
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
and Marilee even did it the other way around from the usual sometimes - make a deal only if the guy would sleep with her - in the instance I’m thinking of, the ravishing Clifford Barnes!
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
Good points.
Top Jimmy
Telly Talk Active Member
I'm surprised no one has mentioned loony Lady Jessica. She was the worst, killing how many people? That woman was entertaining, but batshit crazy. She had serious issues involving her brother and son, and even had the nerve and bad manners to knock Miss Ellie out and stuff her in the trunk of her car! ;-)