What more would you like Miss Ellie to do?

[Jock's Ghost]

I would have to think that one over.

He liked Jenna Wade
Mostly OK with April
Casey Denault while he was useful
Punk and Mavis Anderson
Sly
The detectives that worked for him
Patricia Shepperd liked JR
Clayton's Sister

Not really disputing you. It would make for a good discussion

They didn't threaten him in any way. Jenna was a distraction for bobby and had no ambitions but to be with Bobby. Patricia was a good tool to slap SE around with two ganging up on her. Clayton's sister liked him, he didn't like her, he felt she was... off.... and he was right.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

If Wes Parmalee turned out to be Jock for sure -- and it was verified -- it would be just another cheapy soap contrivance.

But the fact that it remained, to some degree, forever unresolved gave the story its ghostly Hamlet-esque effect. It remains perhaps DALLAS' ground zero plotline because all roads lead to, and away from, it.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

They didn't threaten him in any way. Jenna was a distraction for bobby and had no ambitions but to be with Bobby. Patricia was a good tool to slap SE around with two ganging up on her. Clayton's sister liked him, he didn't like her, he felt she was... off.... and he was right.

I guess the point is, he didn't like too many people LOL

 

[Snowcat]

I don’t know if that’s a fair critique of Miss Ellie’s character. Miss Ellie was totally kept in the dark to what Jock and later JR did.

One conversation she had with JR that sticks out;
Miss Ellie:”Jock would have never done that.”
JR: “You don’t know the half of what daddy did.”

Remember how Miss Ellie acted when Donna told her that Jock had a man commuted just to take his land? In her eyes, no way would Jock had done something like that.

Not saying she didn’t benefit from Jock and JR’s shady doings because she most certainly did, but to call her a hypocrite for living a great lifestyle because of it, I don’t know if I’d go that far. She’s not exactly Carmela Soprano. Lol

You make fair points. Miss Ellie also is from a very different era than today. She is from the time of when the man was clearly the head of the house & it was rare for women to work

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

You make fair points. Miss Ellie also is from a very different era than today. She is from the time of when the man was clearly the head of the house & it was rare for women to work

You are right, I think that is part of it. I just think ME chose to be unaware because it would be counter to her life of wealth and privilege.

 

[Chris2]

Yep - totally agree. Ellie was a master of denial. What the family did to Valene and Lucy was despicable and she went along with it.

Ellie reminds me a bit of Carmela Soprano.

 

[Snowcat]

Yep - totally agree. Ellie was a master of denial. What the family did to Valene and Lucy was despicable and she went along with it.

Ellie reminds me a bit of Carmela Soprano.

I agree that she was in denial. I know a lot if women who do that. But What did they do to Valene & Lucy? Gary left. I think JR threatened Valene & that’s why she left. I don’t think it was Jock & Ellie’s decision take Lucy from her parents.

 

[Chris2]

Jock and Ellie raised Lucy instead of returning her to her mother, after JR had the baby snatched from her mother in Tennessee. And they clearly didn’t even allow visitation.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Yep - totally agree. Ellie was a master of denial. What the family did to Valene and Lucy was despicable and she went along with it.

Ellie reminds me a bit of Carmela Soprano.

I agree, except that CS was less of a hypocrite. CS didn't pretend to be high and mighty while others did the
"Dirty Work"

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

I agree that she was in denial. I know a lot if women who do that. But What did they do to Valene & Lucy? Gary left. I think JR threatened Valene & that’s why she left. I don’t think it was Jock & Ellie’s decision take Lucy from her parents.

I disagree that Jock and Ellie didn’t know. I believe it was one of JR’s “I’ll do what I have to do” and Jock with his “whatever” response. Jock and Miss Ellie wasn’t going to let their grand daughter bounce from one cheap hotel to the other.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I disagree that Jock and Ellie didn’t know. I believe it was one of JR’s “I’ll do what I have to do” and Jock with his “whatever” response. Jock and Miss Ellie wasn’t going to let their grand daughter bounce from one cheap hotel to the other.

I have never really been clear on that. JR must have had his parents' 'approval' for such a drastic move

 

[Snowcat]

I just rewatched some of these episodes. It sounds like Gary left Val & Lucy at SF. He told Valene he didn’t expect she would get kicked out. She told him they would have left with him the first time. After Gary was gone, JR drove Valene out. She left with Lucy. Then he tracked her down and took Lucy. But the way JR hated Gary, im surprised he would bring his child back. I would have thought he would have wanted to eliminate any trace of Gary among the family.
I watched the 1st 3 episodes tonight. Pam told Lucy that the family feels so bad that she was abandoned that they let her get away with anything. How Lucy was left with her grandparents is unclear. Im sure there are bits and pieces of the story told throughout the series

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

When the Jock Ewing recast was scuttled, it deprived BBG of a major opportunity to do more and show her acting range.

Maybe casting a charming slick-talking lothario (Cesar Romero?) to con her out of money could have worked

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

I just rewatched some of these episodes. It sounds like Gary left Val & Lucy at SF. He told Valene he didn’t expect she would get kicked out. She told him they would have left with him the first time. After Gary was gone, JR drove Valene out. She left with Lucy. Then he tracked her down and took Lucy. But the way JR hated Gary, im surprised he would bring his child back. I would have thought he would have wanted to eliminate any trace of Gary among the family.
I watched the 1st 3 episodes tonight. Pam told Lucy that the family feels so bad that she was abandoned that they let her get away with anything. How Lucy was left with her grandparents is unclear. Im sure there are bits and pieces of the story told throughout the series

I don’t think JR “hated” Gary. Greedy JR saw him as a threat, but I don’t think he hated him. As for Lucy being left with Jock and Miss Ellie, who else was to see over her? JR’s and to a lesser degree Jock was busy running Ewing Oil and Bobby was too young. With that being said, I always got the feeling that JR and Sue Ellen had a responsibility over Lucy. She sat with them at the dining room table and she squabbled with them like most kids do with their parents.

 

[A Nightmare on Jimmy Todd Street]

I don’t think JR “hated” Gary. Greedy JR saw him as a threat, but I don’t think he hated him. As for Lucy being left with Jock and Miss Ellie, who else was to see over her? JR’s and to a lesser degree Jock was busy running Ewing Oil and Bobby was too young. With that being said, I always got the feeling that JR and Sue Ellen had a responsibility over Lucy. She sat with them at the dining room table and she squabbled with them like most kids do with their parents.

Her mother Valene should have bern raising her. If they didn't want her living in poverty invite Valene to live somewhere on SF. Jock and ME accepted what JR said about Val abandoning Lucy, but they knew Val and should've doubted that, especially ME as a mother herself. This was a case in which they suspected the truth and looked the other way.

 

[Chris2]

Lucy also said in the first episode that Valene went to court to get her back but the Ewings bought off the judge. There’s no way Jock and Miss Ellie didn’t know that Valene went to court.

 

[Mustard]

I disagree that Jock and Ellie didn’t know. I believe it was one of JR’s “I’ll do what I have to do” and Jock with his “whatever” response. Jock and Miss Ellie wasn’t going to let their grand daughter bounce from one cheap hotel to the other.

J.R. would have said something like "Valene could never cope with Lucy". I don't believe he told his parents the whole story, and Val was back taking legal action before long too, annoying J.R. enough to issue death threats if she returned to the state of Texas. Why would he do that if he had told his parents everything?

Lucy also said in the first episode that Valene went to court to get her back but the Ewings bought off the judge. There’s no way Jock and Miss Ellie didn’t know that Valene went to court.

Valene took legal action. J.R. found out and made the threats. Val was persistent with it. That's Val all over, looking vulnerable and scared on the surface but always finding a very stubborn and strong streak inside herself. It's what Gary loves about her.

 

[Mustard]

I don’t think JR “hated” Gary. Greedy JR saw him as a threat, but I don’t think he hated him.

Absolutely.

As for Lucy being left with Jock and Miss Ellie, who else was to see over her? JR’s and to a lesser degree Jock was busy running Ewing Oil and Bobby was too young. With that being said, I always got the feeling that JR and Sue Ellen had a responsibility over Lucy. She sat with them at the dining room table and she squabbled with them like most kids do with their parents.

Miss Ellie would have been the main mother figure. Bobby was 13 at the time that Lucy was taken back to Southfork, and I bet he had a certain attitude of heroic strength even then. Once Lucy was a young kid, Bobby would be in his later teens or his 20s, but Bobby himself said to Pam in the second episode that "none of us have the time to take care of you (Lucy)".

 

[Snowcat]

I don’t think JR “hated” Gary. Greedy JR saw him as a threat, but I don’t think he hated him. As for Lucy being left with Jock and Miss Ellie, who else was to see over her? JR’s and to a lesser degree Jock was busy running Ewing Oil and Bobby was too young. With that being said, I always got the feeling that JR and Sue Ellen had a responsibility over Lucy. She sat with them at the dining room table and she squabbled with them like most kids do with their parents.

I agree he didn’t hate Gary, but how was Gary a threat? Bobby was the adored baby of the house.

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

I agree he didn’t hate Gary, but how was Gary a threat? Bobby was the adored baby of the house.

Anybody who could have cut into the Ewing Empire was deemed a threat in JR’s eyes. Bobby was Jock’s favorite and Gary was Miss Ellie’s. As insecure as JR was, could you imagine what he’d be going through if Gary was there full time? He was a wreck when Gary showed up every once in a while. He even saw Ray as a threat.