What's The Real Reason Why People Don't Like Clayton?

[Snarky Oracle!]

Of course Sue Ellen wasn't the first thing on everybody's mind.
I just wanted Clayton to be a bit more thoughtful so Sue Ellen didn't have to face the wrath of JR which we all knew was coming.
He so say assumed the role of her protector.

Saying that Clayton had a habit of being thoughtless as evidenced in previous posts.

Sue Ellen was an adult. She could handle herself -- or she should have, but instead went on a bender.

That's on her. And maybe JR. And probably Katherine.

Clayton had no responsibility in any of this. Bobby had just died, so naturally most people's impulse is to watch their words and to under-react (except of course for JR).

 

[LMLDallas78]

or she should have, but instead went on a bender.

Uh no she didn't go on a bender, not this time anyway, she'd been out shopping.

Clayton always professed to being her protector from JR. Adult or not that was often required.

Sue Ellen knew something was wrong as soon as she had chance to read JR's face and then she turns desperately to Clayton for clarification.

Their relationship should've meant Clayton saved her from that. We can all understand JR's pain but we should also understand his constant need to verbally attack his wife when he's down.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Uh no she didn't go on a bender, not this time anyway

She didn't?? I could swear she did -- winding up in the back alleys of Dallas like a wino.

What show were you watching?

Clayton always professed to being her protector from JR. Adult or not that was often required.

Sue Ellen knew something was wrong as soon as she had chance to read JR's face and then she turns desperately to Clayton for clarification.

Their relationship should've meant Clayton saved her from that. We can all understand JR's pain but we should also understand his constant need to verbally attack his wife when he's down.

They were thinking about Bobby -- not Sue Ellen!

 

[Billy Wall]

but we should also understand his constant need to verbally attack his wife when he's down.

OK...Please explain.

 

[LMLDallas78]

She didn't?? I could swear she did -- winding up in the back alleys of Dallas like a wino.

That was AFTER Bobby's funeral, (that wasn't Bobby's funeral), Not the scene we're discussing here.

What show were you watching?

Very cheeky of you @Snarky Oracle!
We were discussing the scene when Clayton should've protected Sue Ellen from JR's verbal rant about Bobby being dead.
Obviously a scene you're not too familiar with.......it's from Dallas, have you heard of it?!

OK...Please explain.

My choice of words probably weren't the best here but I meant we all knew JR often verbally abused his wife especially when he felt things weren't in his control.

It was a given that JR would react like this to Sue Ellen and Clayton should've stepped in. Bobby used to, but obviously he couldn't here.

If they understood JR, which they did, they would've seen this coming.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I do see the point of @LMLDallas78 here. That’s a great scene and how they used it to drive a further wedge between JR and Sue Ellen was well done but I do watch that scene waiting for Clayton or even Miss Ellie to jump in a little sooner before Sue Ellen makes a complete fool of herself and incurs Jr’s wrath.

Of course, since it does end up becoming a dream, I’m willing to give Clayton a pass ultimately. People quite often act differently in our dreams than we would like.

 

[Billy Wall]

Clayton did try to stop Sue Ellen and then he did try to stop JR. He knew JR was in mourning and he probably didn't want to make a scene.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Clayton did try to stop Sue Ellen and then he did try to stop JR. He knew JR was in mourning and he probably didn't want to make a scene.

By muttering "Swellin don't" then "JR don't" was hardly trying to stop them.
He didn't need to make a scene, just take her aside.
It was cruel for him to allow that to happen.
How on earth was Sue Ellen to know? She came in completely oblivious.

Four seasons previous to this Clayton would've done anything to protect Sue Ellen because he was pursuing her.

Making out he was bringing over some things of hers just so he could see her. Using their relationship and taking advantage of her single status vulnerability to visit her and just popping up whenever at her town house.
Looking jealous when he finds Cliff there one morning.

Not being up front enough to tell her how he felt about her then referring to it because Afton and JR suggested he had feelings for her.


Clayton could be a wonderful man, but there were times when he frustrated me and times when I just rather disliked him.
Mind you as I've said before their hinted at relationship was rather exciting.

 

[Toni]

Of course Sue Ellen wasn't the first thing on everybody's mind.
I just wanted Clayton to be a bit more thoughtful so Sue Ellen didn't have to face the wrath of JR which we all knew was coming.
He so say assumed the role of her protector.

Saying that Clayton had a habit of being thoughtless as evidenced in previous posts.

Clayton was probably wondering who replaced Donna Reed´s Ellie with BBG´s Ellie. I guess it may be confusing to see your wife changing faces over and over...

- Ellie: "Oh Miss Reed, come in and make yourself at home!"
- D.Dread: "Oh I will, darling... I will."
- Clayton: ("I think I´ve drank too much vodka today...")​

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Clayton was probably wondering who replaced Donna Reed´s Ellie with BBG´s Ellie. I guess it may be confusing to see your wife changing faces over and over...

View attachment 48046 View attachment 48045

- Ellie: "Oh Miss Reed, come in and make yourself at home!"
- D.Dread: "Oh I will, darling... I will."
- Clayton: ("I think I´ve drank too much vodka today...")​

again, after learning all these horrible things about Clayton on this thread, I’m now thinking he was the one who orchestrated the whole Donna Reed as Miss Ellie thing.. what a jerk!

 

[Brian Kinney]

A lot of people have forgotten that Bobby got instant chocolate milk from Clayton before he drove to Pam to spend the night with her. But then Pam drank the chocolate milk and dreamt for a year before waking up... Yes, Clayton is responsible for the dream season!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Fantastic! Katzman must be wondering in heaven (or hell) why he didn't think of that!

Ugh!!!!!

 

[Snowcat]

Well he was Jock Ewing, head of the Ewing Family. As Punk said " He was tough but he was fair" with Jock you knew what you were getting. Clayton not so, never sure where you were with him.
I'm not a Clayton hater, just feel I never really knew the real him.

Yes! Jock was a straight shooter. He could be harsher but you knew where he was coming from. Clayton was passive aggressive. I didn’t like it when he sucker punched JR at his wedding. I also didn’t like him trying to assume the role of Ewing patriarch. He married Miss Ellie. He was not the boys father. I didn’t like Miss Ellie splitting South Fork with him when Jock worked so hard to save it.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Clayton was the man though wanting to spend the night with his bride to be before they got married.

Thoroughly modern Clayton. I saw him more as the old fashioned type, but I don't judge him for that.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Clayton was the man though wanting to spend the night with his bride to be before they got married.

Oh I think we all know he would’ve pretended it was Sue Ellen though, at least until after the wedding.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Clayton was the man though wanting to spend the night with his bride to be before they got married.

Thoroughly modern Clayton. I saw him more as the old fashioned type, but I don't judge him for that.

as someone who was known to “kick up his heels” a bit in his younger years in San Angelo, I felt Clayton (that reprehensible villain) showed admirable restraint in waiting as long as he did to put the moves on Miss Ellie… not unlike noted nude skydiver Mark Graison with Pam

 

[LMLDallas78]

Oh I think we all know he would’ve pretended it was Sue Ellen though, at least until after the wedding.

You said exactly what I was thinking!

But when you think about it Clayton had a lot to deal with.
He got confused over his feelings for his potential daughter-in-law, fell for her Mother-in-law when trying to be near that potential daughter-in-law.
His potential son-in-law causing problems and accusing him of still being in love with his wife.
Having to give away the woman he had feelings for to a man he despised who was later his son-in-law.

Then his bride-to-be calling off the wedding then calling it all back on again. Having to deal with his crazy sister and explaining to his step?? Son-in-law and his wife about the boy he raised as a son not being his biological son.

And his wife being very two faced!

To top it all off he then fell for a girl in a painting and got accused of murdering the sleazy painter who tried to make him look sleazy.

I actually feel sorry for ole Clayton, as well as all the above he's dealt with a whole lot more. Let's not forget his Murder She Wrote part. It's exhausting writing it let alone living it.

Mark Graison

He's another bit of a complex character, we need a thread on him next!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Yes! Jock was a straight shooter. He could be harsher but you knew where he was coming from. Clayton was passive aggressive. I didn’t like it when he sucker punched JR at his wedding. I also didn’t like him trying to assume the role of Ewing patriarch. He married Miss Ellie. He was not the boys father. I didn’t like Miss Ellie splitting South Fork with him when Jock worked so hard to save it.

I always thought that cheap punch was glossed over. And Miss Ellie has no reaction to Clayton punching her son on his wedding day, knowing about Clayton's "relationship" with Sue Ellen? Events such as that always made me unsympathetic to Miss Ellie (not to be confused with BBG's acting, please, don't misinterpret!)

Oh I did! Jock was no angel, but probably, obviously more likeable and maybe easier to forgive.

I think there is a more developed back story to Jock. We don't know about Clayton's rise to power, but in the Dallas universe, it is
entirely possible, maybe even likely, that he used the same tactics as Jock. Therefore it can't be assumed that the Clayton of post-Jock Dallas was a paragon of ethics.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I think there is a more developed back story to Jock. We don't know about Clayton's rise to power, but in the Dallas universe, it is
entirely possible, maybe even likely, that he used the same tactics as Jock. Therefore it can't be assumed that the Clayton of post-Jock Dallas was a paragon of ethics.

I've often wondered why Jock was put on a pedestal by The Ewings as well as the viewers. I think many of us were so touched when Jim died so early into Dallas and we respected him as head of the family and part of the ensemble cast even though we knew he was no angel.
Maybe we need to be more forgiving of Clayton (agreed that punch was a cheap shot)

We knew most of Jock's background, but I always felt there was more that was only referred to as regards to his "bad" behaviour in his younger years.

In the episode John Ross Ewing III (part 2) Miss Ellie and Jock discuss marrying into the family and having the Ewing name and money. Miss Ellie says to Jock he was born a Ewing and didn’t have to marry to get the Ewing name. Jock says to her "you did",
Miss Ellie replies, "but I never needed the Ewing name, I was a Southworth and always felt secure in your love, except maybe once or twice". This is before we learnt Ray was his son.

He also said to JR that he never begrudged his boys having a good time
"Hell I did" he told his son.

We knew he could be ruthless in business and went along with JR about finding skeletons in Cliff Barnes' past and to do "Whatever" when JR said if they're weren't any, he would put them there.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I think in general men like Jock and Clayton, and just about everyone else that made their money in the oil business, were far from perfect. They were from a different era, an era when it was easier to bury the skeletons much deeper in the closet than you ever could now. These were complicated men, men that I’m sure loved their families but trying to get ahead in such a cutthroat business made them do questionable things at times. I’m not excusing some of the things Jock did but given the times and the uncertainty of trying to build an empire during those times I can definitely understand some of those things.