When did JR stop being scary?

[Snarky Oracle!]

Barbara Bel Geddes was not fired. She declined to accept the contract that was offered to her, because she wanted a larger salary and fewer hours. Let’s say I go to my employer and say that I want a $1,000,000 annual salary and Fridays off, and they say we’ll give you $500,000 and you don’t get Fridays off. I choose not to accept their offer. That’s not the same as being fired.

I'm talking about the second time she left -- in 1990. They put out the public story that she'd been "fired" (she wanted a raise and wanted to work more).

I'm with you on the 1984 incident, mostly. There, the public story was that she'd "grown tired of the role" even though they'd threatened to bring in another actress if BBG didn't accept their terms (she wanted more money, fewer hours), but her reps thought it was a bluff and *poof!* there appears Donna Reed.... And then they had to get rid of Donna Reed.

Come to think of it, they fired everybody......but, yeah, I was talking about 1990.

 

[Will2000]

I have bingewatched the first 9 seasons (DVD) and I am now post dream and suddenly there seems to a shift with the tone of JR.

Perhaps it's the change with characters around him like Sue Ellen sticking up for herself, and as a result changed the tone making him slightly more comedic.

Maybe it happened earlier but I have especially noticed in the first few episodes of season 10.

JR stopped becoming scary IMO after he lost the contest to Bobby for Ewing oil after that people didn't fear him as much for a couple of reason 1 his little brother beat him straight up in a contest that everybody though JR would win easily and 2 he didn't full control.of Ewing oil

 

[the-lost-son]

The character of JR was great as long as you did not know how far he would go. The uncertainty what he was going to do, what his intentions sometimes were (eg stockpiling oil), that's what made it so compelling.

I'll handle Kristen my own way. - freeze frame.
(to lady Jessica's question what possibly could go wrong with Ellie's wedding to Clayton) almost anything - freeze frame

It always comes down to the writing.
During the last +4 years the writing was mostly so predictable. Every intention/emotion is articulated immediately, like LeeAnn delavega announcing to take Ewing oil weeks in adcance to the audience. The need not to miss an episode is gone, it's easy to catch up, like in any other daytime soap.
A scene like JR standing on the balcony after figuring out SE's affair with Peter doesn't seem possible anymore. The audience was let into the secret that JR knew it, but the unpredictibility in total made it such a treat to watch.

 

[Snowcat]

Instead of making the character more comedic and humanized as he got older I think they should’ve gone the other way, making him more bitter and callous.

This is what they did with Cliff. His bitterness was not attractive. I think JR softened a little after Jock died. It was his idea to end the fight for Ewing Oil. he changed a lot after Bobby died. I think the BD Calhoun situation really made him lose his edge. I was surprised he was impressed by Sue Ellen’s Valentine scheme. Normally he would have wanted revenge. He was never the same towards her after she divorced him the first time. She was the one rejecting him, not the other way around

 

[Billy Wall]

I think JR softened a little after Jock died. It was his idea to end the fight for Ewing Oil.

JR might have been at his worse when Jock was alive, but he certainly didn’t soften. And if we’re thinking of the same scene where JR, in front of the family of course, told Bobby he’s willing to put an end to the battle, JR was just being JR. He knew that Bobby was going to tell him what he could do with that offer. Now he can tell Miss Ellie that he tried and it’s not me that wants this battle.

 

[Snowcat]

JR might have been at his worse when Jock was alive, but he certainly didn’t soften. And if we’re thinking of the same scene where JR, in front of the family of course, told Bobby he’s willing to put an end to the battle, JR was just being JR. He knew that Bobby was going to tell him what he could do with that offer. Now he can tell Miss Ellie that he tried and it’s not me that wants this battle.

The scene I’m thinking of was Bobby & JR by themselves. I think it was right before the fire. Sue Ellen started drinking after catching him with Holly Harwood. He was genuinely upset. But that only lasted A night. By the next day He changed his mind

 

[Mustard]

JR stopped becoming scary IMO after he lost the contest to Bobby for Ewing oil after that people didn't fear him as much for a couple of reason 1 his little brother beat him straight up in a contest that everybody though JR would win easily and 2 he didn't full control.of Ewing oil

Did J.R. really lose the contest? I know he did officially, but the result hinged on timing with Bobby's huge Canadian deal with Thornton McLeish. Without that, J.R. won handily, even without the Cuban money. The cut and thrust oil business aspect was J.R.'s by miles in the Battle for Ewing Oil.

 

[CeeCee72]

Season 8 (DVD) is where it started. At the very beginning of the season.

1. His fear about being the target of the shooting.
2. His softness towards Bobby as he recovered.
3. His comment to John Ross that you always "play fair" with family.
4. Giving up on his scheme to force Sue Ellen back into his bed. After all that work and plotting, he decides just to wait until she's ready
5. His talk out on the patio with Sue Ellen where he confesses his self doubt.
6. Letting Sue Ellen push him around about Jamie (staying at SF, then working at Ewing Oil).

Feels kinda like Season 7 ended with one JR and Season 8 opened with another.

 

[Mustard]

Season 8 (DVD) is where it started. At the very beginning of the season.

1. His fear about being the target of the shooting.
2. His softness towards Bobby as he recovered.
3. His comment to John Ross that you always "play fair" with family.
4. Giving up on his scheme to force Sue Ellen back into his bed. After all that work and plotting, he decides just to wait until she's ready
5. His talk out on the patio with Sue Ellen where he confesses his self doubt.
6. Letting Sue Ellen push him around about Jamie (staying at SF, then working at Ewing Oil).

Feels kinda like Season 7 ended with one JR and Season 8 opened with another.

True, but then in Season 9 DVD, J.R. savages Sue Ellen ruthlessly for not being there when Bobby died. That season we see much of nasty J.R. while we also see a lot more of his softer side that season as well (which is to be expected after Bobby's death). In Season 10 DVD, J.R. is making more mistakes than normal, especially the B.D. Calhoun fiasco. In Season 11 DVD, J.R. still has the old swagger but loses more battles than he wins. Season 12 DVD is Haleyville humiliation and confidence damaged, and Season 13 DVD is an utter disaster for J.R. during virtually the whole season as I recall.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

The scene I’m thinking of was Bobby & JR by themselves. I think it was right before the fire. Sue Ellen started drinking after catching him with Holly Harwood. He was genuinely upset. But that only lasted A night. By the next day He changed his mind

Seeing Sue Ellen bruised and bandaged after the car accident really shook him up to the point he may really have meant he wanted a truce. However, I think he was caught up in the moment, and it wouldn't have lasted. If he had one,he would not have shared it with Bobby.

 

[CeeCee72]

Seeing Sue Ellen bruised and bandaged after the car accident really shook him up to the point he may really have meant he wanted a truce. However, I think he was caught up in the moment and it wouldn't have lasted. If he had one,he would not have shared it with Bobby.

I honestly think that's the closest we ever saw JR to feeling actual guilt.

 

[Chase Gioberti]

It was during the Dream season and carried over.

He should not have been afraid of Angelica Nero.

Should have got some good old boys to take care of BD Calhoun.

Should have blackmailed Jeremy Wendell with something, anything. Instead he leaves with his tail between his legs.

It is even more embarrassing post season 10.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Season 8 (DVD) is where it started. At the very beginning of the season.

1. His fear about being the target of the shooting.
2. His softness towards Bobby as he recovered.
3. His comment to John Ross that you always "play fair" with family.
4. Giving up on his scheme to force Sue Ellen back into his bed. After all that work and plotting, he decides just to wait until she's ready
5. His talk out on the patio with Sue Ellen where he confesses his self doubt.
6. Letting Sue Ellen push him around about Jamie (staying at SF, then working at Ewing Oil).

Feels kinda like Season 7 ended with one JR and Season 8 opened with another.

Those things gave JR additional dimension (which I'm all for) so I'm not sure that they made JR seem less scary. The shift into JR seeming less malevolent was, to me, a gradual thing, and it really didn't bother me until he -- and the show -- eventually became more overtly "comic" in the closing years.

I don't really find that there was a fatal line crossed which modified JR's villainy; it just sort of happened over time. And some of it became a mistake.

Should have got some good old boys to take care of BD Calhoun.

Should have blackmailed Jeremy Wendell with something, anything. Instead he leaves with his tail between his legs.

There weren't really any good-ole-boys who could've taken out Calhoun. He was upwards on the food chain from that... which is why the Ewing brothers' successful taking him out at that amusement park seemed improbable at best. But it was time to wrap up the story.

Same with Jeremy Wendell: the Ewings' ease with which they had him arrested and imprisoned was never very believable.

But then Katzman's presentation of the Ewing men being "strong" always felt kind of silly. Only Jock's Mephistophelean "power" ever came off as a force to be reckoned with.

JR could be a scary bastard in the early years, but at the end of the day, he was just a spoiled rich kid cock-of-the-walk.

 

[CeeCee72]

Those things gave JR additional dimension (which I'm all for) so I'm not sure that they made JR seem less scary. The shift into JR seeming less malevolent was, to me, a gradual thing, and it really didn't bother me until he -- and the show -- eventually became more overtly "comic" in the closing years.

I don't really find that there was a fatal line crossed which modified JR's villainy; it just sort of happened over time. And some of it became a mistake.

I get that those things added dimension to the character. But honestly, two of them really bothered me.

The "play fair with family" thing. JR of the early years would have taken as much advantage of Bobby's illness as he possibly could. JR never cared to "play fair" with Bobby before, so it seemed out of character.

But the one that really got under my skin was him letting Sue Ellen and Jamie push him around. I realize he was trying to stay on Sue Ellen's good side, but the JR I knew and loved would have never let her henpeck him into accepting Jamie at Ewing Oil. He would have told her to stay out of his business and then bought her a fur coat or a diamond necklace or something to placate her.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

The "play fair with family" thing. JR of the early years would have taken as much advantage of Bobby's illness as he possibly could. JR never cared to "play fair" with Bobby before, so it seemed out of character.

Yes, it does contradict his other instruction to John Ross that winning is of the utmost importance, no matter what.

 

[Toni]

I´d say that her strange alliance with Lady Jessie (and the subsequent Ellienapping) was what showed J.R. what choosing the wrong ally could do to his loved ones. The next season he was emasculated by Jamie, Pam and even Sue Ellen, who kicked his parts in that scene in their bedroom. Then comes Jack, and takes him away 10% of Ewing Oil, and in the Dream Season he ends up not caring about it. But yes, maybe Angelica (and her real-life counterpart B.D. Calhoun) killed the big basterd that he always was. When the Haleyville fiasco happened, he was a shadow of his former self. Neither he nor the producers and writers seemed to remember what made J.R. the iconic anti-hero that turned the show into a phenomenon.

​

 

[Snowcat]

Seeing Sue Ellen bruised and bandaged after the car accident really shook him up to the point he may really have meant he wanted a truce. However, I think he was caught up in the moment, and it wouldn't have lasted. If he had one,he would not have shared it with Bobby.

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. He did mean it at the moment. But he changed his mind the next day

 

[Snowcat]

I think the last season JR was really scary on a constant basis was season 6 (DVD7) for example when he dealt with Edgar Randolph in the hospital for example or when he found out that Sly was spying for Cliff or when he threatened Pam.

In the following season he was still dealing & wheeling and backstabbing, but the general focus of the story was transferred more to Pam and the inbnevitable reunion with Bobby. JR was more focused on Mandy Wjnger or Pam's love life.

In the dream season most of his schemes don't work and he is pushed around (beaten by Matt Cantrell the low point). If he wins (Ewing Oil staying in the family, John Ross staying at Southfork) it's always now thanks to the generosity of others. He blackmails only 2-3 secondary characters, but he is not scary anymore. When he threatened Jerry, Kenderson to break his legs it feels like an empty threat.

In season 9 (DVD10) he is insulting and mean, but I can't think of one scary scene of him. Most of his schemes backfire (BD Calhoun making him look pathetic and weak).
Especially in the beginning he is very rude to Bobby, Sue Ellen and Jack (moochers, half-breeds, strangers ) but not scary. We should have gotten a scene where JR send some boys for Parmalee.

The character without his scary personality, lost something big.

I also think he became predictable

 

[Snowcat]

You have to say the end to Season 10 DVD, when Ewing Oil with the aid of the CIA still lost to the Justice Department with the aid of Nancy Scottfield, is the moment that ended the Ewing aura, and most of the J.R. aura. The cracks then widened further for J.R. in Season 11 DVD when he lost most of his battles even if he still had the old swagger, the Haleyville humiliation in early Season 12 DVD being another low, and Season 13 DVD was an utter disaster for J.R. on almost every level, reduced to going into a sanitarium for Ewing Oil shares from Jessica and then being trapped there by his own son! Season 14 DVD, J.R. seems to be going through motions most of the time.

The dream season (Season 9 DVD) J.R. saw a lot of his softer side after Bobby's death, but he was still the proper J.R. compared to anything after Season 10 DVD. I fully expect Bobby's death, and the manner it happened, to make J.R. softer like we saw that season. I do wonder if Larry Hagman's health was starting to fail him in the late 1980s, to be honest, which led to the 1995 liver transplant that saved his life.

Yes the end is season 10 was the beginning of the end

 

[Snowcat]

And to me that's when they should have seen the writing on the wall and took evasive action: JR should have taken up the role of Jock in the family and he and Sue Ellen come to some sort of understanding to live together like Jock and Miss Ellie did at South Fork. BBG was ready to move on with health issue and South Fork needed a new Matriarch and Patriarch and Clayton was not going to work as such. This shift in the show would have required a lot of risk, but with great risk could have been great pay off. Finally the Ewing's could have been said to "keep up" with the Carrington's.

Of course this would have meant that the Ewing's would need to make other characters big, like JR. To me they had Lucy and while I know not everyone agrees I think they a return of Lucy for a failed first marriage and a surprise new son of a bitch husband, maybe a Cecil Colby type, maybe Jeremy Wendell, could have been just the avenue they needed. Maybe Miss Ellie gives South Fork's mansion to JR but the land and the cattle to Gary, her hands down favorite and he gives it to Lucy - too terrified to return to face JR. But Lucy is thrilled to return to face her uncle with her new husband (soon to die). She moves into the cottage on the property. And we're off. But maybe instead of a battle between JR and Lucy we find an alliance between JR and Lucy - one that makes them super rich - even starts to drill for oil on the ranch and finds Lucy a partner in EO with JR and Bobby. Now with a younger generation taking over there are lots of other characters we could see and a totally evil Lucy taking her place as the next head of the family. Well before she passes the torch onto John Ross in Dallas TNG.

JR could never be Jock. He would have had to have more children and grandchildren. Jock was THE head of the household. No one crossed him. His siblings would never have that kind of fear or reverence for him.