Why Did Philip Capice Leave Dallas?

[Jimmy Todd]

I never watched Dynasty. I am biased I am a Texan. Look yall criticisms are not unwarranted nor do I disagree with some of them. I appreciate that certain things I wouldn't have done either. My point is look VP Left and told them in 85 that her concern was the writing wasn't there. She pretty much knew when the drop in ratings would happen. She timed things perfectly. I think no party really addressed that issue. Sometimes actors get paid so much and the credit goes to them but when a show fails we blame the writers right. I think that is a lot of this. Having said that. Capice was foolish to make Dallas look like a Bond series situation. Then the question becomes ok how do you undo that. So while it might seem stupid and nuts to have Pam wake up from a nasty dream how else could you undo that. My argument was after the season where you had PD leave. That's when they should have written things in a way that would be more forward thinking. That's when Weststar should have greater influence. In other words. Lets say Patrick Duffy had to come back. Maybe you could have made the last episode of how he died a dream perhaps. Even though he died and wanted to come back. I imagine not a dream but something to make him come back. Once you kill a character its hard to bring that character and then on top of which reverse nonsense unless you do what they did. If yall love PD how else would any of yall brought PD back. Like I said if Capice had not done that stupid season and brought Weststar in earlier. We could have some fun here. I think the whole BD Calhoun thing happening the season later that could have been moved up a season as I said earlier. Philip Capice again lies when he says that the issue of Ray Crebbs being Jock's child was progression no it wasn't. As I said before this has been documented it was Larry's idea to keep Steve Kanally from leaving. Again actually if you go back really far in the first 3 episodes he was fooling around with Lucy. So they never did explain that. But even then Larry ran the idea with Steve they took it to Katsman and it was signed off. So yeah Larry had impact even during that time. Understand Katzman basically was forced out during that so called dream season. Again I stress this because I think you guys need to understand while I agree that a lot of things should have been done way differently between seasons 11-14. Understand America and TV in general was coming to a new age. Texas itself its not as much to cover a bad recession and also in general the writing wasn't there in the closing years as VP was great at pointing out. Again PD wanted to do his thing. How else do yall think they could have brought back PD? Again I think yall are right on a few things. When It comes to Cally situation and the last season in particular ABSOLUTELY. I do think Linda Gray leaving early wasn't good. As you started to see Sue Ellen gain strength that also made JR weaker which in turn doesn't build ratings but then again Bobby beat him for Ewing Oil narrowly and he still came back. So like I said yall have to keep everything in perspective. But Phillip Capice should not have done that Angelica Nero season. It was ridiculous meaningless and plain stupid. He could have gotten better ratings if what had happened with BD Calhoun and losing Ewing Oil would have been done season before and like I said that would have been harder but probably more interesting to bring PD Back.

I loved Patrick Duffy and the character, but I wouldn't have brought him back. I would have had Pam vs JR be the focus with Bobby's ghost looming over the characters the way Jock's did. Bringing a dead on screen Bobby the way they did caused more damage than it was worth.
I didn't realize Victoria told the powers that be she was leaving because of the writing. I agree she timed her exit perfectly. She certainly is very intelligent and savvy woman.

 

[WarriorsFan]

(to be fair s9 aired in 1986…the year the 80s went crazy)

AIDS, Challenger, Chernobyl made us all realize that the world was on the verge of change.

I didn't realize Victoria told the powers that be she was leaving because of the writing. I agree she timed her exit perfectly. She certainly is very intelligent and savvy woman.

I bet she saw the first signs around Legacy of Hate and made up her mind around The Ewing Connection. Why I pointed out those two episodes? Legacy of Hate was the first episode to be beaten in the weekly ratings by a new episode of The Cosby Show and The Ewing Connection was the first episode to be beaten in the weekly ratings by a new episode of Murder She Wrote. Those were signs of things to come.

 

[rkhullar]

I loved Patrick Duffy and the character, but I wouldn't have brought him back. I would have had Pam vs JR be the focus with Bobby's ghost looming over the characters the way Jock's did. Bringing a dead on screen Bobby the way they did caused more damage than it was worth.
I didn't realize Victoria told the powers that be she was leaving because of the writing. I agree she timed her exit perfectly. She certainly is very intelligent and savvy woman.

The article I read said that. I'd have to go back and Google it I thought she left because of her businesses that were making a Fortune of money but that's not really the real reason why she left. She was concerned that riders were leaving in groves and it's not just Capice or Katzman. Again I stress this there are a lot of things that I agree should have been done differently in seasons 11 to 14 but not everything in those seasons was bad. That's all I'm saying. Now season 14 in particular what was ridiculous about that was that westar basically was in a different plane and how I don't know because that whole Vienna thing and Susan Lucci and all that other stuff it was really wacko. Jordan Lee allowing her to terrorize that function shooting at Arabs and then Jr trying to get that westar stock away from Jessica locking himself in a mental institution and follow ended up giving it to him anyway it just seemed retarded I agree with that. Then westar's in its own world which is not making any sense. Then Jr sitting back and setting McKay up and we know that Johnny dancer was killed by Cliff Barnes. So that was all bull so I agree with you that season 14 definitely needs a lot of work it wasn't just Callie and other things but again let's look at what was going on in those days. This all is a result of writing not so much Katzman or Capice. Do you really think Philip capice would have come up with better ideas. We lost Ray Crebbs years ago we have no suellen Miss Allie is gone so what else was there to do. Susan Howard who played Donna Krebs she's gone. I think a lot of it was just actors going their own way and you had to find literally a whole new cast and make up something and they tried to me that was a stupid if not stupider in some ways than the whole Bond thing but like I said earlier on you could get away with it once the show lost its credibility no. But you do make an interesting point if Patrick never came back how would that have gone but then if VP was going to leave anyway what would replace her then Jr would win and then the ratings would go down anyway. Let's say we take your analysis and PD doesn't come back and it's VP and Larry basically okay now what now VP wants to leave now what. Then you'd have to show Jr versus West Star wouldn't you then you'd have to put some other powerful Independents or something. So writing would have had to be even more complicated and I don't know that you would have been able to do it that way. But VP was destined to leave in 87 and she left in 87

 

[rkhullar]

Excuse me earlier post writers not riders

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Capice was rubbish and I'm glad he's dead

don't hold back - tell us how you really feel!

 

[rkhullar]

He's a liar. He said that Ray Krebs being jocks illegitimate child was part of progression it wasn't. It was Larry hagman's idea and it got approved by Leonard katzman and it was done with consultation of Steve Kannelly as I've said repeatedly. It's funny how that guy can do that stupid Bond stuff and no one ever says hey wait a minute. by the way your picture is of that Gus guy or whatever that was a friend of Bobby's in one episode that Pam and j are both knew was a crook

 

[Barbara Fan]

It's funny how that guy can do that stupid Bond stuff and no one ever says hey wait a minute.

I think people did - and it wasnt dream seasosn finest hour

BUT!

I will take first 7 years of Dallas any day with Katzman and Capice than the final 4 seasons which got weaker and more daft with every progressive year not to mention key cast members leaving or being written out and replaced with second rate actors in secoond rate storylines

if I watch the DVDs i dont pull the final 4 years off the shelf - they are geting dusty, its original Dallas ending with Bobby being shot at end of S6 original that i watch

Those years were Dallas ast its best - and Kristin in the pool in S3 was the weakest out of those 6 golden seasons

not the far fetched final years with range wars, blowing up oil fields, murder she wrote type stories and jetting to Europe on a freebie, bad acting, bad new comers, bad stories etc

Its SF, Ewing/Barnes family, and their relationships and dynamics that I cared about, Barnes V Ewing, JR / Jock V Bobby and Pam, the females relationships at SF et all and that was Mr Capice and Mr Katzman who surrounded himself with so many family members as nepotism reigned and i bet a few wouldnt say NO to him!

I met him in 1983 on the Dallas set in LA, Dallas in its hey day!

 

[rkhullar]

I am not denying what you are saying but not all of it was bad. Look I learned for the first time as a child the fun of a Hostile Takeover. The fight for Weststar. That to me in a way it showed JR Ewing as a corporate raider. Tell me that fight wasnt fun. Now I agree that some stuff after that did go downhill. I don't deny that and again I perhaps got to this late. Remember I am only 47 THAT SAID what you have said is not disputed here. All I am saying is that Phillip Capice wouldn't have done much better. You yourself JUST SAID that the seasons that were best and the ratings by the way back what you said were 1-6. Then by your own Calculus the Angelica Nero Bond style garbage shouldn't be acceptable that was all Phillip Capice. Leonard Katzman wanted no part of that and he actually was overpowered by Capice in that season. Keep in mind Larry Hagman basically said if Capice stays another day I am leaving. So are you suggesting the show should have ended on that Angelica Nero crap? If you are ok at least say so directly. If you believe that Capice is that valuable then he would be only that great with KATZMAN these are you words that you just said and Katzman could not stand him or vice versa. Keep that in mind before you jump here.

 

[rkhullar]

I am not denying what you are saying but not all of it was bad. Look I learned for the first time as a child the fun of a Hostile Takeover. The fight for Weststar. That to me in a way it showed JR Ewing as a corporate raider. Tell me that fight wasnt fun. Now I agree that some stuff after that did go downhill. I don't deny that and again I perhaps got to this late. Remember I am only 47 THAT SAID what you have said is not disputed here. All I am saying is that Phillip Capice wouldn't have done much better. You yourself JUST SAID that the seasons that were best and the ratings by the way back what you said were 1-6. Then by your own Calculus the Angelica Nero Bond style garbage shouldn't be acceptable that was all Phillip Capice. Leonard Katzman wanted no part of that and he actually was overpowered by Capice in that season. Keep in mind Larry Hagman basically said if Capice stays another day I am leaving. So are you suggesting the show should have ended on that Angelica Nero crap? If you are ok at least say so directly. If you believe that Capice is that valuable then he would be only that great with KATZMAN these are you words that you just said and Katzman could not stand him or vice versa. Keep that in mind before you jump here.

Lets be even more clear here your opinion is not opinion its fact. The Nielsens prove what you are saying is true. What I am trying to get it at though and I think you are not seeing is that the idea that those two were going to work together NO. Because at some point Capice really was starting to irritate not just Hagman but the entire cast INCLUDING VP. VP was quoted as saying she was glad that Larry stood up and did something about Capice.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Lets be even more clear here your opinion is not opinion its fact. The Nielsens prove what you are saying is true. What I am trying to get it at though and I think you are not seeing is that the idea that those two were going to work together NO. Because at some point Capice really was starting to irritate not just Hagman but the entire cast INCLUDING VP. VP was quoted as saying she was glad that Larry stood up and did something about Capice.

It's great that you're so passionate about Dallas, as we all are or why else are we on this forum? But you have your opinion as others do and we need to appreciate that fact.
It may be unintentional on your part, but you come across as slightly challenging, it's refreshing to hear all sides and all opinions and points of view.
Just my little opinion, I like Capice and Katzman for different reasons and dislike them also in different ways. Many story lines disappointed me while others exceeded my expectations. Maybe Larry Hagman and Victoria Principal didn't like Capice because they weren't treated so favourably by him. We don't know, we weren't there, we can only speculate and go by what we read and interviews we watch. Again, that's just my little opinion.

 

[rkhullar]

It's great that you're so passionate about Dallas, as we all are or why else are we on this forum? But you have your opinion as others do and we need to appreciate that fact.
It may be unintentional on your part, but you come across as slightly challenging, it's refreshing to hear all sides and all opinions and points of view.
Just my little opinion, I like Capice and Katzman for different reasons and dislike them also in different ways. Many story lines disappointed me while others exceeded my expectations. Maybe Larry Hagman and Victoria Principal didn't like Capice because they weren't treated so favourably by him. We don't know, we weren't there, we can only speculate and go by what we read and interviews we watch. Again, that's just my little opinion.

Yes sir and I do respect that opinion. But these folks defend Capice too much and as I said they seem to think that Katzman was a moron because he was the one in charge in the later seasons. But what they don't understand is that Capice wouldn't have done much better. When you lose good actors and writers there is only so much anyone can do. Larry and Patrick by themselves couldn't do much. The signs were there this was gonna happen. I personally that Katzman should have given VP more control and said to her look if you believe the writers are an issue are yall as actors willing to take cuts in pay because the network itself will not spend extra money. That is a discussion I think should have been had to all of them. You read in interviews now even Charlene Tilton as Lucy was paid in those days 20000 a week which for that time was a lot. So again I am tired of these guys knocking Katzman and saying that Katzman was useless without Capice. Look that whole Angelica Nero crap was all Capice. Katzman did not want that. Larry Hagman and the rest of the cast did not want that. As I said before and I will say this again. How else do you expect to put PD back and undo the damage. So while it seems tacky to have Pam's dream how else could you have done that. No one here has the guts to answer that. I am sick of people pounding on Katzman in this forum. I am defending what I am saying my fact and listening to these actors. Again I am sick of people knocking Katzman or thinking that he could not do things without Capice.

 

[rkhullar]

According to y'all's theory if this was all Katzman's fault and he couldn't survive without Capice then why did capice do the stuff he did? Y'all really need to take a look here and what you guys are not understanding is that it's not just one person or one factor there are a lot of things that go into why Dallas failed into the later years and on many of those issues I agree with you on and on some I don't. My issue also is that blaming Katzman is irresponsible when you look at everything in totality. It was Capice because of that stupid bond season crap that messed up the whole thing and from there with all the other factors I mentioned this was destined to happen. All I'm saying is that not everything in those remaining seasons was garbage. And I don't know why you guys can't understand that.

 

[LMLDallas78]

sir

Wow, you address me as sir.....How presumptuous of you!

 

[Rove]

Look that whole Angelica Nero crap was all Capice. Katzman did not want that.

I'm certain I've read on this forum the creation of Angelica Nero was Leonard Katzman's idea. Despite not being part of the Dream Season, my understanding is he still acted as a story consulate. I don't like Angelico Nero however in retrospect I can see why someone thought it was a good idea to counter the dominance of Dynasty.

Unfortunately this and other ideas took away what should have been the real story this season. What the hell was JR Ewing going to orchestrate to get the fox (Pam) out of the hen (Ewing Oil) house? I think many now realize what a huge missed opportunity this was.

 

[rkhullar]

Wow, you address me as sir.....How presumptuous of you!

Sorry ma'am there is no way to identify gender here unless person puts their direct name

 

[rkhullar]

I'm certain I've read on this forum the creation of Angelica Nero was Leonard Katzman's idea. Despite not being part of the Dream Season, my understanding is he still acted as a story consulate. I don't like Angelico Nero however in retrospect I can see why someone thought it was a good idea to counter the dominance of Dynasty.

Unfortunately this and other ideas took away what should have been the real story this season. What the hell was JR Ewing going to orchestrate to get the fox (Pam) out of the hen (Ewing Oil) house? I think many now realize what a huge missed opportunity this was.

You are wrong. In that dream season if you notice in the ending credits executive producer Philip capice by itself. Leonard Katzman did not sign off on that crap. Stop defending the liar that Philip capice is because Philip Capice was garbage

 

[rkhullar]

Katzman had nothing to do with this it was all Philip capice if you look at the ending credits Philip capice was the one that was fully executive producer. This was his stupid idea because at the end of the day if it wasn't why would he be the one fired? Philip capice was rubbish at the end of the day

 

[Seaviewer]

I'm certain I've read on this forum the creation of Angelica Nero was Leonard Katzman's idea. Despite not being part of the Dream Season, my understanding is he still acted as a story consulate.

During my recent rewatch of season 8 I was surprised to find that Katman is a credited writer on a number of episodes, including "Masquerade"in Martinique. I don't know if he created the character but he certainly participated directly in the storyline.

 

[xab]

@ rkhullar
Are you related to Katzman or is Capice a nemesis of yours... ? :eyes:

 

[Matthew Blaisdel]

During my recent rewatch of season 8 I was surprised to find that Katman is a credited writer on a number of episodes, including "Masquerade"in Martinique. I don't know if he created the character but he certainly participated directly in the storyline.

Plus, Capice was surely not responsible for the unrecognizable, utter comedic crapshow Dallas turned into in its last few seasons.
The dream season was never the big problem, because that was, what came AFTER it... and AFTER Capice was gone. At that point the real desaster started, that ruined the show into the ground. Capice was nowhere to be found near Dallas by that point.