Why did the planning just go out of the window?

[pete lashmar]

For the first 7 seasons Dallas was such a well crafted show. Moments that seemed insignificant became major plot points.

Ideas and storylines flowed effortlessly and then the dream season happened and the rest of the run was marred by some terrible decisions.

It's like the writers just gave up.

They knew that Pam was leaving but botched it, they knew that Wes was Jock but botched it, they knew that April was leaving, so why have the whole winning her back in a season before they killed her off so early in the following season?

Major characters were sidelined, new characters just walked in and took over the show but were all 2 dimensional with very thin plots.

Does anyone know why Lorimar didn't step in and do something? Did they just accept it because Larry and Lenny were riding rough shot over everyone? Did they not see the ratings plummeting and the success of the show evaporating? Did anyone care at all?

During those first 7 season there were some incredible ideas, some jaw dropping surprises and that's why it became a global phenomenon - and not forgetting some incredible performances by the regular cast. I know that it's tough to keep the quality up on a long running show, but some of the decisions made on plots and characters in the later years were truly shocking.

And Lenny's biggest regret...killing off April apparently (a character that I absolutely loved) - which begs the question, why build her up so much and marry her off to Bobby when you know she's leaving???

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I think Dallas worked better with Leonard Katzman as Producer and Philip Capice as Executive Producer.

I think it was a big mistake getting rid of Capice and making Katzman the Executive Producer. The show lost its way creatively when he was the showrunner.

The ninth season should not have been turned into a dream, negating the storylines that year so they could bring Patrick Duffy back. If Duffy was to return making it a dream was lazy writing. They should've came up with a better explanation for bringing him back, one which did not negate the current storylines.

Katzman's time as the Executive Producer really tested the believability of the shows audience. He gave Susan Howard her marching orders because she was a supporter of Capice. That whole mummy Pam storyline was ridiculous just like the Haleyville storyline later on.

Possibly the worst thing Katzman and the writers did was turning JR into a buffoon who constantly lost. That was unforgivable.

I think with hindsight they shouldn't have brought Patrick Duffy back. They had an opportunity to retool the show and take it in another direction. Instead after listening to complaints from Hagman they moved Peter Dunne and James H. Brown to Knots Landing and brought Katzman back in.

Whilst I love season ten, this season is clearly transitory for the show. Dack Rambo, Susan Howard and Victoria Principal are all about to leave. The following season needed to be good to keep the audience on board and as we know the ratings started to spiral downwards.

It's a shame what happened to Dallas. I'm off the opinion which I've voiced in other threads that Katzman was burnt out creatively. He maybe should not have been brought back. He made some poor decisions such as pairing up Jenna with Ray and Bobby with April.

If only someone else had been the Executive Producer or if Capice had stayed the last five years of Dallas may have been very different.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I think the problem with Lorimar was that they were content to ride the wave as regards Dallas.

I've seen from other posters that CBS got involved as regards Dallas from season thirteen. The season which introduces Sasha Mitchell and Kimberly Foster. There was obviously an attempt to rejuvenate Dallas but again with the benefit of hindsight it didn't fully work.

New characters are all well and good but if the storylines that they're in aren't up to par then they come across as very one dimensional. Sadly that's what happened with the newer characters. The veteran cast just became tired under Katzman's leadership.

Sad to see how the show just became a shadow of itself as a result of Katzman being creatively retarded. He couldn't or wouldn't move with the times. We were lucky the show ran for so long.

 

[pete lashmar]

I think the problem with Lorimar was that they were content to ride the wave as regards Dallas.

I've seen from other posters that CBS got involved as regards Dallas from season thirteen. The season which introduces Sasha Mitchell and Kimberly Foster. There was obviously an attempt to rejuvenate Dallas but again with the benefit of hindsight it didn't fully work.

New characters are all well and good but if the storylines that they're in aren't up to par then they come across as very one dimensional. Sadly that's what happened with the newer characters. The veteran cast just became tired under Katzman's leadership.

Sad to see how the show just became a shadow of itself as a result of Katzman being creatively retarded. He couldn't or wouldn't move with the times. We were lucky the show ran for so long.

Bringing in new characters can work if the character is 3 dimensional and the actor can put in a good performance. Unfortunately Sasha just wasn't up to the part in my opinion . Kimberely was a different story, she was a great actress but her character was terrible. They created a complete bitch who didn't like or get on with anyone, she had no redeeming features whatsoever and therefore very few viewers liked Michelle.

Cathy Podwell was wonderful as Cally once she got to Dallas, but writers again didn't know what to do with her, the whole art storyline was dreadful/

But the biggest mistake after Pam going was what the writers did to Cliff - he was just lost in the show with some very weak storylines, such a shame that his character was so diminished. That said, the did exactly the same to JR. They turned the man we love to hate into a wuss and that was unforgivable.

 

[Toni]

I really want to think (maybe I´m in denial like Miss Ellie?) that not everything is as it seems to us.

At the same time that Katzman returned, happened the merger between Lorimar and Telepictures, and I´m sure that, despite what we fear/suspect/guess/whatever, big decisions were not one-sided from The Katz only.
There were very high stakes money-wise. "Dallas" was the only continuing drama still "working" at CBS. They also were producing big-screen movies, some of them really successful. And they also were co-producing other shows (they came to Spain to produce with Catalonia something called "Dark Justice", starring none other than... Johnny Dancer/Danzig!!).
There were obviously a lot of millions coming and going, and they thought that "Dallas" was a safe bet with Pat back. But also obviously, the big bosses at CBS didn´t watch "Dallas" by then. Otherwise they would have changed even more things.
So yes, the Katzmen made a few mistakes, but I don´t wanna think they jumped the shark (post-Dream) only because of their greed or the stars´ greed. Come on, it was and still is a dirty business, and they were not HBO at all. They had to make viewers see all the commercials in between the show. Of course, at some point, people got tired of it. I say, Soap Gods thank you for the first 8 seasons!

Just my two cents.

 

[cws]

I think Dallas worked better with Leonard Katzman as Producer and Philip Capice as Executive Producer.

I think it was a big mistake getting rid of Capice and making Katzman the Executive Producer. The show lost its way creatively when he was the showrunner.

The ninth season should not have been turned into a dream, negating the storylines that year so they could bring Patrick Duffy back. If Duffy was to return making it a dream was lazy writing. They should've came up with a better explanation for bringing him back, one which did not negate the current storylines.

Katzman's time as the Executive Producer really tested the believability of the shows audience. He gave Susan Howard her marching orders because she was a supporter of Capice. That whole mummy Pam storyline was ridiculous just like the Haleyville storyline later on.

Possibly the worst thing Katzman and the writers did was turning JR into a buffoon who constantly lost. That was unforgivable.

I think with hindsight they shouldn't have brought Patrick Duffy back. They had an opportunity to retool the show and take it in another direction. Instead after listening to complaints from Hagman they moved Peter Dunne and James H. Brown to Knots Landing and brought Katzman back in.

Whilst I love season ten, this season is clearly transitory for the show. Dack Rambo, Susan Howard and Victoria Principal are all about to leave. The following season needed to be good to keep the audience on board and as we know the ratings started to spiral downwards.

It's a shame what happened to Dallas. I'm off the opinion which I've voiced in other threads that Katzman was burnt out creatively. He maybe should not have been brought back. He made some poor decisions such as pairing up Jenna with Ray and Bobby with April.

If only someone else had been the Executive Producer or if Capice had stayed the last five years of Dallas may have been very different.

I still don't understand why Larry wanted Capice gone!

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I still don't understand why Larry wanted Capice gone!

I'm not sure of the exact reason but Larry didn't like him.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

At the same time that Katzman returned, happened the merger between Lorimar and Telepictures, and I´m sure that, despite what we fear/suspect/guess/whatever, big decisions were not one-sided from The Katz

I remember seeing some kind of Lorimar documentary/tribute that must have been filmed after this transition.. It was basically a hagiography for Les Moonves, who later became president of CBS. It was presented as if his arrival was the most important moment in Lorimar history and everything prior to that was some kind of amateur hour.

My guess is that he was fantastic at making deals and negotiating the politics of mergers and acquisitions and corporate restructuring, but couldn’t have cared less about the actual product, least of all something whose glory days preceded him, like Dallas.

 

[Rove]

I think Dallas worked better with Leonard Katzman as Producer and Philip Capice as Executive Producer.

And that statement proves why Dallas became the international hit it did.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Apparently, Capice was more high-handed while Katzman had a better bedside manner with the actors -- although the actresses were apparently quite fond of Capice.

David Jacobs said that despite their not seeing eye-to-eye, Katzman and Capice had the exact same approach to television.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

They should have kept Wes Parmalee as Jock Ewing. It would have led to some great stories

 

[the-lost-son]

At the same time that Katzman returned, happened the merger between Lorimar and Telepictures, and I´m sure that, despite what we fear/suspect/guess/whatever, big decisions were not one-sided from The Katz only.
There were very high stakes money-wise. "Dallas" was the only continuing drama still "working" at CBS.

I couldn't agree more. Dallas was not only a hit in the US and the UK - it was a global success. One has to wonder why they didn't pull the plug after season 11(DVD 12) due to its very bad US ratings. They not only renewed it for the next season, but for the next 2(!) combined. Selling the series to other countries must have been a big factor moneywise. In order to sell, the (superficial) changes can't be too drastic.

So JR has to stay the key character - although during the early 90s he was in his late 50s. In the series at one point he was a daddy to teenage JohnRoss, to adult James, to a new born. He was in eternal love with a youngster or someone else - it was a complete mess.
In a perfect world JR would have taken Jock's role in the background.
But with longterm series there is a high risk of writing yourself in a corner. Trying to please part of the fanbase wanting more of the old and winning new audience with new characters...without alienating one of them.

But people "wanted" JR fighting with Bob at Southfork, they wanted more of the old - which got stale at one point.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Given that Katzman identified April's death as his "biggest mistake" ever in DALLAS, he'd clearly lost objectivity.

Even Patrick later said they "lost objectivity" about what qualifies as a good story during the closing seasons.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Another factor which was the death knell for the show in its later years was the lack of an ensemble cast.

There were too many interlopers in the shows last three seasons.

I can understand why Victoria Principal left at the end of season ten. The quality of the writing was in decline is how she described it and I believe she was referring to Bobby's resurrection from the dead in the shower!

Unfortunately the show also lost Susan Howard and a few years later Steve Kanaly. Poor Dack Rambo was probably dropped because Bobby was brought back and not long after Steve Kanaly was dropped Linda Gray got dropped too. There were too many main cast departures and replacing them with younger actors and different characters didn't work.

It Leonard Katzman truly believed his biggest mistake was killing off April, well I've news for him it most certainly was not!

His biggest mistake was writing that ridiculous resurrection of Bobby Ewing in the shower which destroyed any credibility in the show and impacted it's popularity.

Could Katzman have saved Dallas? I doubt it. They had an opportunity to bring back the Ewing patriarch recast with the veteran actor Steve Forrest but they squandered it. The dynamic of the series could've been improved with having Jock back but they totally wasted the opportunity. We might've been spared some of the sillier storylines of the last four seasons.

Let's face it everyone, Katzman was a good Producer but as an Executive Producer he just couldn't cut it.

 

[the-lost-son]

There simply was too much money at stake.
If you look at the end of the dream season and Patrick Duffy's return was leaking through the press - it was Lorimar/CBS who announced it.
In the following weeks when rumors circulated about an evil twin scenario...it was Lorimar/CBS who announced PD's return as Bobby Ewing (and nothing else).

There was too much money involved after the initiary 7 years contracts expired. They brought Katzman back because higher management probably wanted to secure their investment and thought no changes could accomplish that.

Without JR they would have canceled Dallas (if Hagman made the decision during the dream season which he called the show's worst). The spotlight was put on Bobby and JR for the rest of the series which is understandable as they earned the most. This leads to my next assumption and one of the most talked topics here - VP's departure. I admire her business success, she is a top business woman. So with the right amount of money she would have stayed. Just like BBG 2 years prior (who handled her regular workload beautifully after her return btw).

Dallas was at its best when the next generation was taking over. The Ewings' and the Barnses' offspring trying to start families on their own, fighting their parent's battles...it's timeless.

After 10 years though things get stale when single dads JR and Bobby in their 40s/late 50s dealt with their pubertal sons. We didn't sign up for something like that. Drastic changes were needed but obviously not wanted by higher management.

 

[Rove]

Another factor which was the death knell for the show in its later years was the lack of an ensemble cast.

If we look at those first several seasons you will note how the writers kept the focus on the Ewing or Barnes characters. It was rare not to see them in any scene. Extras were woven into the Ewing lives but still kept at a safe distance as not to distract us from the main action. As the years progressed too much attention was focused on those extras...similar to what happened in TNT Dallas.

 

[pete lashmar]

If we look at those first several seasons you will note how the writers kept the focus on the Ewing or Barnes characters. It was rare not to see them in any scene. Extras were woven into the Ewing lives but still kept at a safe distance as not to distract us from the main action. As the years progressed too much attention was focused on those extras...similar to what happened in TNT Dallas.

Very much so. That started with the Angelica plot in the dream season and then happened a lot more in the last 3 seasons.

This is why the last 3 seasons are so very weak, the focus was too much off the Ewings, with Michelle, James, Carter McKay, Stephanie Rogers taking over. These people didn't compliment the cast, hell, they all got into the titles (don't get me started on that!).

There's a difference between a new look update & a hostile takeover.

 

[the-lost-son]

Dallas had a great structure in the first years with rivalling brothers fighting for their daddy's approval, trying to start their own families and mama in the background stopping everyone it things got too far. But this concept doesn't work forever.

Hagman was nearly 60 at the series' end. He should have taken Jock's role by then. But changes obviously were not wanted by CBS who hired Katzman to get more of the old. They did not want any changes because it still generated money.
I'm no fan of the dream season, but at least Capice changed some things (for the worse, ok) as the season before showed signs of fatigue.

Katzman was taken back to return to "the original formula". I strongly believe his hands were tied due to all financial obligations. Let's not forget this guy turned Jim Davis' death into television gold or created a phenomenon after CBS demanded two more episodes.

If you have a look at Falcon Crest where storylines were scrapped or Dynasty who fired actors due to higher management decisions, one tends to underestimate the influence of the moneygivers.
It seemed so strange when the Ewings travelled Europe in the last season. The show has its name for a reason. I assume they wanted to boost international sales.

The same applies for Dallas TNT btw. I'm no defender of Cynthia Cidre. But the one time when things needed to be fixed in the writing (after Hagman's death) we got a glimpse of what could have been possible on a regilar basis. There probably wasn't enough time to consult higher management or target groups and it was very successful.