Would You Take Back The Later Years?

[Kenny Coyote]

I was one of those fans. I despised the story but only because of my fondness for Jim Davis. I'm curious Via. If the writers/producers had persisted with the notion Parmalee was Jock where do you think the story would have ended up? If they had decided Jock was alive then the contest for Ewing Oil between JR and Bobby would have been null and void. A great shame because this story drove the series for a long period.

Also. Where would this leave Miss Ellie and Clayton?

I was one of those fans too. I would have lost a huge amount of respect for Dallas if they'd gone ahead and made Wes Parmalee Jock. I think they always meant for Parmalee to be a con man and they say that on the DVD extra in an interview specifically about that. They said they always featured the portrait of Jock so prominently to remind the audience that Jim Davis was the only Jock. I don't think they'd have been featuring that portrait so much if they wanted us to believe Wes was Jock because every time we saw it, the portrait reminded us of how little Wes looked like Jock.

If they'd had the story go that yes, Jock was still alive and he was the character played by Steve Forrest, then they'd have had to have established something that left no doubt that he really was Jock. Continuing with that idea, then I'd have fully expected JR to say to Miss Ellie something like: How can you stay married to Clayton and leave your real husband, my father, Bobby's father out in the cold? How can you have more loyalty to Clayton, than the man you were married to for 40 years longer than you've been married to Clayton and who fathered your sons?

I think Bobby would have thought that way too, although not been as adamant about it as JR would have been, because at least he liked Clayton.

If Ellie remarried Jock, that would have made Clayton not very relevant to the story though, so I think that they'd have had Ellie remain married to Clayton despite pressure from her sons to be married to Jock. That could likely have had them put Jock in the role of a man who wanted revenge against Ellie for betraying him, which I think would be a really bad idea that the audience would not want to see. It likely would have speeded up the demise of the show as viewers turned away in disgust.

That's just speculation of course, and they might have done something entirely different but I don't know what. I'm very glad we never had to find out what they'd have done!

 

[Bobby Southworth]

I'd have fully expected JR to say to Miss Ellie something like: How can you stay married to Clayton and leave your real husband, my father, Bobby's father out in the cold? How can you have more loyalty to Clayton, than the man you were married to for 40 years longer than you've been married to Clayton and who fathered your sons?

Laugh; that's exactly what JR would have said and done.

Look, if we could only put aside that Wes was shorter, sounded different, pronounced things differently, looked and behaved differently than Jock, then how could we not be convinced? Lol. I think it was a fun story line, but yes, it would have been a bad idea to actually make him Jock. Dallas would have lost even more credibility, and it would have been disrespectful to the memory of Jim Davis.

 

[Seaviewer]

if they'd found an actor who really looked like he could be Jock, maybe it could have been more believable than it was.

How believable you find it is purely a subjective impression.

With Parmalee, it's not a recast and you're not supposed to just accept him as "the new Jock" ;

I would argue that it potentially was a recast and, as with all such, the more like the original actor you can get, the better. But that has nothing to do with the story they were telling.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

How believable you find it is purely a subjective impression.

There is an element of the subjective, but you can also evaluate it by objective criteria. Anything which exists in reality can be evaluated by objective criteria.

For example, you can identify certain body types and in science there are three ways of categorizing the human physique,which is known as somatotyping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatotype_and_constitutional_psychology

Disregard the psychological description which is bunk, these body types are only of use in identifying physical characteristics. Wikipedia is something literally anybody can contribute to, so one must be discerning when evaluating anything Wikipedia has to offer. Somatotyping is useful to identify the three general types of physiques people have.

Jock was primarily an ectomorph. They are usually very thin with long arms, long legs, and long fingers. They are often described as long, lean and rangy. Ted Shackleford is an ectomorph. Basketball players tend to be ectomorphs.

Parmalee was a mesomorph. They have compact muscular builds with broad shoulders, are medium height, and shorter limbs than ectomorphs have. Bobby was a mesomorph. Ray was as well. Athletes in sports where strength is important such as American football and wrestling are often mesomorphs.

Larry Hagman was primarily a mesomorph with some lesser tendency towards an endomorph.

Endomorphs are pear shaped, and an example would be someone like Wally Hampton or Mr Valentine.

A helicopter crash doesn't change any of that. If they were to talk to Jock's tailor, he could confirm that Jock's measurements - the lengths of his arms and legs in particular, would be quite different from those of Parmalee. In fact,in the scene where Parmalee is being fitted for a new suit, his tailor, says "Your measurements sure have changed."

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

There is an element of the subjective, but you can also evaluate it by objective criteria. Anything which exists in reality can be evaluated by objective criteria.

I object to that! That's just a subjective observation!

 

[Barbara Fan]

What about the heart surgery? Nobody seems to notice this. If he went through the operation in Dallas (and he did), then somebody could have checked it out. Also, the fact that his heart didn´t stop (and he had a heart condition) when the helicopter clashed into the lake!! Come on, this had more holes than a Gruyère cheese...

​

If he was Jock (and I never thought for a minute he was, but i did love Steve Forrest in Dallas and i loved his voice) Id like the name of his plastic surgeon as he came back, better looking and far less wrinkled, craggy and well lived looking than Jock. He was also a nicer personality.

That plastic surgeon could have made a fortune IF he was Jock

larry hagman appeared on UK Chat show at the time and said there is no way that he is my daddy,

Just dont like how the story ended so abruptly, I wanted to see that chat with Miss Ellie and he was a welcome additon to the show

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I was one of those fans. I despised the story but only because of my fondness for Jim Davis. I'm curious Via. If the writers/producers had persisted with the notion Parmalee was Jock where do you think the story would have ended up? If they had decided Jock was alive then the contest for Ewing Oil between JR and Bobby would have been null and void. A great shame because this story drove the series for a long period.

Also. Where would this leave Miss Ellie and Clayton?

Undoubtedly there would've been some love triangle between Jock, Clayton & Miss Ellie. That would've been good as both Clayton & Miss Ellie didn't really have good storylines in the later years of the series.

Possibly there might've been some initial animosity between Jock, JR & Bobby for control of Ewing Oil, with them settling down & running Ewing Oil as a team. We probably would've been spared Vanessa & James. Perhaps Sue Ellen would've hooked up with Clayton or gone back to Dusty again. Bringing Dusty in would keep Clayton on screen & active.

Perhaps both Susan Howard & Victoria Principal would've stayed on. We wouldn't have got Pam's fireball exit or Donna leaving with Senator Andrew Dowling for a life in politics. Who knows what would've happened? I'm still willing to bet it would've been better than that final season where you can actually tell that Dallas was on it's way out. It might even have lasted for a few seasons longer. A shame.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

In the spirit of this thread, we did a re-watch of the Wes Parmalee episodes. Here's one thing we noticed that was really nice.

Punk Anderson was Jock's best friend and everybody seemed to go to Punk for his opinion on the Wes Parmalee case. Punk and Miss Ellie even drove out together to meet Wes.

One thing I'm sure we can agree on-- Giving Punk Anderson more screen time was a great thing!

 

[Swami]

Undoubtedly there would've been some love triangle between Jock, Clayton & Miss Ellie. That would've been good as both Clayton & Miss Ellie didn't really have good storylines in the later years of the series.

Possibly there might've been some initial animosity between Jock, JR & Bobby for control of Ewing Oil, with them settling down & running Ewing Oil as a team. We probably would've been spared Vanessa & James. Perhaps Sue Ellen would've hooked up with Clayton or gone back to Dusty again. Bringing Dusty in would keep Clayton on screen & active.

Perhaps both Susan Howard & Victoria Principal would've stayed on. We wouldn't have got Pam's fireball exit or Donna leaving with Senator Andrew Dowling for a life in politics. Who knows what would've happened? I'm still willing to bet it would've been better than that final season where you can actually tell that Dallas was on it's way out. It might even have lasted for a few seasons longer. A shame.

Being spared Granny Beaumont and James would have been a bonus regardless of any storyline.

Swami

 

[Chris2]

If he was Jock (and I never thought for a minute he was, but i did love Steve Forrest in Dallas and i loved his voice) Id like the name of his plastic surgeon as he came back, better looking and far less wrinkled, craggy and well lived looking than Jock. He was also a nicer personality.

That plastic surgeon could have made a fortune IF he was Jock

Maybe they should have given his name to Pam.

My advice for any soap character, when confronted with a character claiming to be a post-plastic-surgery spouse, would be to demand that the newcomer take off all his clothes. Surely Ellie would be able to identify Jock’s penis.

BTW, every time I hear someone refer to “Granny Beaumont”, I LOL.

 

[Swami]

Maybe they should have given his name to Pam.

My advice for any soap character, when confronted with a character claiming to be a post-plastic-surgery spouse, would be to demand that the newcomer take off all his clothes. Surely Ellie would be able to identify Jock’s penis.

BTW, every time I hear someone refer to “Granny Beaumont”, I LOL.

I sincerely hope you're not a fan of Granny Beaumont?

Swami

 

[Chris2]

Haha - no. I just love the nickname.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Maybe they should have given his name to Pam.

My advice for any soap character, when confronted with a character claiming to be a post-plastic-surgery spouse, would be to demand that the newcomer take off all his clothes. Surely Ellie would be able to identify Jock’s penis.

Just like his face and his fingerprints, he would have said: "It got burned off - the doctors had to build me a whole new one."

 

[Swami]

Haha - no. I just love the nickname.

It's more than a just a nickname, it reflects just how antiquated she was.

Swami

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Just like his face and his fingerprints, he would have said: "It got burned off - the doctors had to build me a whole new one."

Now listen here Kenny!

Miss Ellie never got the opportunity to identify Jock's dick, what with the carry on from Clayton.

However I would fully expect her to look as shocked as when Wes said "It's mine Miss Ellie! Always has been!"

 

[Bobby Southworth]

and just how did Jock/Wes afford all that plastic surgery?? Perhaps they would have saved his life, but..... only on Dallas.

 

[Herofan]

Personally, I enjoyed the Wes/Jock storyline back in the day, and I enjoyed Steve Forrest; however, I understand some saying he didn’t look at all like Jock. What actor in those days do you think would have been a more convincing fit for the role?

 

[Seaviewer]

certain body types

I believe I've already agreed that perhaps it was poor casting but, again, nothing to do with the story.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Personally, I enjoyed the Wes/Jock storyline back in the day, and I enjoyed Steve Forrest; however, I understand some saying he didn’t look at all like Jock. What actor in those days do you think would have been a more convincing fit for the role?

I still think Steve Forrest was perfectly believeable as a re-cast Jock Ewing.

All this gumph that Wes didn't look like Jock is hogwash! The man was in a chopper crash & burnt as a result of it. Of course he didn't look like Jim Davis as sadly Jim had passed away. They had to cast another actor.

Steve Forrest gave a great performance in the role. I still think it was a shame that the fan backlash swayed the Producers into dropping Steve. They shouldn't have done that! As far as I'm concerned Wes is & always will be Jock Ewing. The bone breakage scarring being identical to Jock's & the blood tests confirmed that.

And if Miss Ellie had got him in bed after this scene she would've had conclusive proof that he was Jock!!!

 

[Alexis Colby Carrington]

I'd stop once Sue Ellen leaves but I do like what came after.