Mary Tyler Moore Show and Its Spin-Offs

[Jessie]

I recently watched all the seasons of “Mary Tyler Moore”. I remember only watching a few episodes when it originally aired. Watching it now, I loved it. I love Rhoda and Mary together. I loved the “Rhoda” show too. I’m not a huge fan of Phyllis never watched that spin-off. The Lou Grant spin-off was excellent.

 

[Jessie]

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Rhoda had Julie Kavner and Nancy Walker, both of whom were wonderful, especially Nancy Walker. I was not a fsn of David Groh's character. I was glad when he eas phased out of the series.

 

[tommie]

Casually watching this and all of a sudden there's a kid named William "Bill" Campbell - is it some sort of common name in the US? First time I heard it was of course with Melrose's Billy "William" Campbell, which I assume must've been named after Dynasty's Luke actor Billy Campbell and now I see a teen character on Mary Tyler Moore showing up named Billy Campbell.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Casually watching this and all of a sudden there's a kid named William "Bill" Campbell - is it some sort of common name in the US? First time I heard it was of course with Melrose's Billy "William" Campbell, which I assume must've been named after Dynasty's Luke actor Billy Campbell and now I see a teen character on Mary Tyler Moore showing up named Billy Campbell.

Not the actor's name?

 

[tommie]

Not the actor's name?

No, the teen character (who was in love with Mary) was named Billy Campbell. Either way, I've now jumped to the season 4 premiere to see Betty White's (disappointingly) short introduction as Sue Ann Nivens. It's also funny to see Mary's style completely change between seasons 3 and 4.

 

[Daniel Avery]

Taking a break-out, supporting character out of a parent series and making them the centerpiece of a spin-off series is a risky business. I can think of a half-dozen failed attempts to do this in various sitcoms. In many of these cases the parent show is harmed by the loss of a popular character. They have to cast a "replacement" character, or at least re-configure things to deal with the loss. This makes it difficult (if not impossible) to bring back that original character after the spin-off fails, causing the once-popular character to be left in limbo.

 

[Seaviewer]

This makes it difficult (if not impossible) to bring back that original character after the spin-off fails,

Yes, the only exceptions I can think of are Joannie and Chachi (who returned to Happy Days) and Jeff and Fallon (back from The Colbys to Dynasty).

 

[tommie]

Yes, the only exceptions I can think of are Joannie and Chachi (who returned to Happy Days) and Jeff and Fallon (back from The Colbys to Dynasty).

Cleveland returned to Family Guy after his spin-off ended.

 

[Alexis]

I remember when Will & Grace was ending there was talk of a Jack and Karen spin off but I honestly didn't think that format would work. As Jack an Karen were normally the ridiculous over the top farce in the show. How would that have worked every week. They would have had to have given them something to play off against and that would always have been seen as a rip off of Will & Grace.

 

[Daniel Avery]

Joannie and Chachi

Jeff and Fallon

I recall they spun off Florence the maid on The Jeffersons into her own show which bombed after about six episodes. Soon she was back working for George and Louise as if she'd never left.

I think the Mary Tyler Moore Show had such a strong ensemble that they could weather the loss of one member. It wasn't like Rhoda's departure mortally wounded the show. The show was strong enough that it didn't need her to come back, either.

 

[ClassyCo]

Taking a break-out, supporting character out of a parent series and making them the centerpiece of a spin-off series is a risky business. I can think of a half-dozen failed attempts to do this in various sitcoms. In many of these cases the parent show is harmed by the loss of a popular character. They have to cast a "replacement" character, or at least re-configure things to deal with the loss. This makes it difficult (if not impossible) to bring back that original character after the spin-off fails, causing the once-popular character to be left in limbo.

It happened with Alice, another popular sitcom in the 1970s. There was the short-lived spin-off Flo, which failed after two seasons, and Polly Holliday never returned to the parent show (not even for the series finale).

 

[Crimson]

Celebrating 50 Years of “The Mary Tyler Moore Show”; debuted on September 19, 1970

 

[ClassyCo]

Celebrating 50 Years of “The Mary Tyler Moore Show”; debuted on September 19, 1970

I wonder if there's going to be a marathon anywhere? I very rarely watch straight-out television anymore, so I haven't seen anything about any marathons concerning the celebration.

 

[Crimson]

Granted I don't watch too much live TV either, so maybe I've just missed stuff -- but it doesn't seem like MTM is getting much in the way of commemorations for its 50 year milestone. I seem to recall it being something of a Big Deal with I LOVE LUCY turned 50; all kinds of specials, marathons and the like.

ALL IN THE FAMILY's anniversary must be hovering around here too.

 

[TJames03]

January of 1971.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Nick at Nite used to do pretty regular marathons. I remember in the 90's they did one got MTM called the "Marython."
I don't keep up with these channels now, so I don't know if they still do such things. I'd be surprised if someone didn't do something for the MTM show's anniversary.

 

[TJames03]

Have you ever read what author said about MTM? Not good things. She said that “Mary and Rhoda” would have been a series, but MTM was so mean to everyone (including Harper), that ABC NEVER wanted to work with her again.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Have you ever read what author said about MTM? Not good things. She said that “Mary and Rhoda” would have been a series, but MTM was so mean to everyone (including Harper), that ABC NEVER wanted to work with her again.

In Mary's defense, they had already shot several episodes of MARY & RHODA, and Moore and Harper thought they were okay, but ABC wanted them to all be as good as the best of the old MARY TYER MOORE SHOW and opted instead of airing the series, to do a TV movie. Then, when ratings were decent, ABC wanted them to make a second start at doing a series. But by then, Moore felt they'd been jerked around enough by the network, that she walked away from the project. Although Harper was willing to follow through.

 

[Crimson]

In lieu of a TV marathon, I acknowledged the anniversary by watching a few episodes this morning. My three all-time favorite sitcoms are I LOVE LUCY, THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW, and MARY TYLER MOORE*, which I also think are the best sitcoms of their respective decades. I think LUCY is funnier than MARY -- MARY's humor is more relaxed and conversational -- but I think MARY has overall more consistent quality than LUCY. However, not quite as consistent as DVD, which might just have the most even quality of any sitcom I've watched.

Although MARY is a great show from beginning to end, I admit to strongly preferring the earlier seasons. Some of that is obvious; while the loss of Rhoda and Phyllis weren't catastrophic to the series, the show was better with them. Few pairs in TV history have better chemistry than Mary & Rhoda and neither Georgette nor Sue Ann -- both great characters -- could compensate.

I think, too, that Mary herself was simply funnier in the early seasons. Squint a bit, and early Mary Richards could be Laura Petrie, having dumped Rob and Ritchie back in New Rochelle, branching off on her own. (While DVD never focused on Laura quite as much as it should have, she was the funniest female sitcom character of the 60s; more Lucy Ricardo-esque than either of Lucy's own later characters. ) While Mary Richards grew and evolved -- a rarity for sitcom characters, even 50 years later -- she stopped being funny and became more of a reactor. That's not necessarily bad, as both Andy Griffith and Bob Newhart largely built their sitcoms around the tactic, but I find early Mary Richards fumbling insecurity to be so much funnier and more endearing than her later, stronger incarnation.

To the show's humor, I rarely find MARY to be laugh-out-loud funny; its humor is calm and cozy. I'll be in the extreme minority I suspect, but I don't like the Chuckles the Clown episode. The episode's attempt at wall-to-wall, riotous humor is so at odds with the rest of the series that I find it disruptive; I usually skip it.

*Is the show's official name MARY TYLER MOORE or THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW? It's often referred to as the later, but the show's opening credits use the former. I usually call it MARY TYLER MOORE, if for no other reason than being faster to type.