Marvel Watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe from the beginning...

[Crimson]

I couldn't figure out how to post this directly in the forum without losing formatting, but here are various scores & metrics for the MCU: Rotten Tomatoes Critic; RT Audience; Metascore; IMDB Users; CinemaScores; global box office. While none of these are particularly meaningful on their own, some interesting trends can be gleaned on which films have been the best received by critics, audiences and where those align or split.

MCU Ratings on Google Sheets

(Only up to the films Mel has reviewed.)

 

[darkshadows38]

i can't stand Rotten Tomatoes i never use it and if i do go on there it's only a handful of times if that each year, there's plenty of movies that have a 0% rating that some of them i love i use IMDB thank you very much

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Given my druthers, I'd have preferred to see Holland play a true friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, dealing with his own rogues gallery as relatively low-level threats. That said, I get the reasons for the changes.

Absolutely agreed on all counts.

Given how you felt about GOTG, I pretty much anticipated this.

I was much harsher on Ragnarok than I would have been were I watching the same story in Guardians Vol. 3. Simply put, I couldn't help feeling the template for Ragnarok - with its comedy, quirky aliens and planet-hopping - feels as though it's been lifted from a far more popular franchise and transposed to a less popular one. It may work and it may be entertaining, but there's something about it that, for me, felt as though the Thor franchise sold out in some way by doing this. I'm not saying this is absolutely the case, but that's just how it felt as I watched.

Whatever the reasoning behind the change in tone, it evidently paid off. You've given many excellent reasons for this version being an improvement and going on the metrics and scores you've posted it's a move that was incredibly well-received. It just doesn't appeal to me.

The change in direction/soft reboot is something that does at least hark back to the source material. This happened in comics all the time when new creative teams would come in, and there'll always be some fans that favour this era over that one.

I wasn't thrilled about Goldblum in the movie for the same reason I didn't care for Stallone or even Glenn Close showing up in earlier films; they're too distractingly famous to disappear into their supporting roles.

Yes - when you're looking at the screen and think of the actor's name over their character name, you know it's stunt casting.

If Asgardians existed, they would probably speak Old Norse or even an unintelligible alien language; neither of which would be crowd pleasers in a superhero film. Having them speak in formal, quasi-Old English is entirely as anachronistic as having them talk like California surfer bros.

Great point, and that does help a little, though I think it bothers me more speech patterns in the third film seemed to contradict (or at least dramatically expand) the patterns of speech heard in the first two.

here are various scores & metrics for the MCU: Rotten Tomatoes Critic; RT Audience; Metascore; IMDB Users; CinemaScores; global box office. While none of these are particularly meaningful on their own, some interesting trends can be gleaned on which films have been the best received by critics, audiences and where those align or split.

Very interesting.

And wow - billions don't actually look as impressive as I'd expect when written down on a spreadsheet.

i can't stand Rotten Tomatoes i never use it and if i do go on there it's only a handful of times if that each year, there's plenty of movies that have a 0% rating that some of them i love

I'd say that's the case for all reviews and ratings. I'm often curious to see how others view a film I've watched and how that compares with my own viewing experience, and I'm interested in stats as well, but something being popular or disliked has little bearing on whether or not I'll enjoy it.

I enjoy reading what people take away from a film-watching experience, but I never forget that there are many, many factors that affect why someone loves or hates a film.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Black Panther (2018)

Even before watching, I was aware that this is an important film in the MCU canon. I seem to remember it being heralded as such before release, and history has reinforced that. It feels almost unfair to watch for the first time almost four years on knowing that there was some Academy Award buzz around it.

Fortunately, apart from Best Picture I didn’t know the categories in which Black Panther had been nominated. I feel glad about this as it didn’t prejudice the way I viewed any aspect of the film. As it turned out, the score and costumes were two aspects of the film that did excite me as I watched, and these represented two of its three Oscar wins (the third was for Best Production Design). The costumes - particularly the Wakandan women’s clothing looked amazing. Angela Basset’s couture alone made this a worthy winner.

Meanwhile, Ludwig Göransson’s score was incredible, particularly when it celebrated the African scenery (since watching I’ve read that Ludwig spent a great deal of time in Africa touring with local musicians and working with them to get the film’s authentic sound). It was stirring and tribal, dark and tense. I was reminded of Zimmer’s score for The Lion King.

There’s no denying that it’s a beautifully shot film and looks like a true epic. It felt a lot shorter than its running time as well, which is the mark of an engrossing film.

In terms of tone, this delivers all I could want from a Marvel film. After the unsubtle injection of comic moments and flashy, one-dimensional characters into Thor: Ragnarok, it feels all the more refreshing to encounter a film that treats its core material with reverence. Black Panther is written and played for truth and its characters are among the most dignified on screen yet. This doesn’t stifle the film, though, and its lighter moments made me laugh more than anything in Ragnarok because they, too, came from a place of truth. Letitia Wright’s Shuri was responsible for many of the little smiles throughout and remained endearing with it. The lighter tone clicked with me when Shuri was told off by her mother for giving someone the middle finger and instantly looked guilty realising she was caught in the act. It’s a moment that gave instant relatability. This may be a Royal Family, but they’re still a family and the dynamics are the same no matter what the status.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Black Panther​

continued

​

As well as T’Challa’s sister, Shuri is essentially the film’s Q to T’Challa’s Bond. There’s a great scene in which she takes him round her crisp white laboratory showing him her latest technologically advanced gizmos which are to be used by him for the good.

As in Bond, there’s a fair bit of jet-setting going on - complete with nifty on-screen supers which change from what I assume to be Wakandan to English. But it’s all earth-based which I find more appealing than hopping round galaxies. The film visits a range of diverse cultures as it travels from California to London to South Korea to Wakanda, changing tones and pace as it goes from car park to apartment to museum to plain to high tech laboratory. The film highlights differences in culture while weaving threads that ensure the similarities are always present, all of which comes to fruition in T’Challa’s final speech at the UN which brought tears to my eyes.

Black Panther’s most Bondian sequence takes place in Busan, South Korea at a high end underground casino where Wakandans, CIA and bad guys face off in a wonderfully tense scene that leads to an exciting car chase. Here, again, there’s some wry humour which feels organic and unforced, such as Okoye’s clear unhappiness at wearing a wig while undercover (I was reminded of Christine Cagney’s similar protests at having to dress up). The visual of her throwing her wig at someone once the fight had begun, revealing her shaved head was delightful. The conclusion of the car chase gave the film’s broadest moment of comedy: Nakia and Okoye’s car is destroyed, Okoye has already flung herself in pursuit and once the chase is over and things become still, Nakia comes sliding into shot, still atop her isolated car seat and holding a steering wheel attached to nothing. It’s pure silliness, but the film has set everything up so well that it’s the perfect moment to break the tension.

Most other action sequences are equally exciting. The one-to-one battles at the waterfall during the challenges to the throne were intimate, bloody, tense and violent (albeit from certain angles it looked as though they were in a grand Center Parks), and it felt as though the stakes were genuinely high. The moment where T’Challa is thrown to his apparent death feels like a game changer, and it also highlighted that this, more than any other “solo” Marvel film is a genuine ensemble. T’Challa is offscreen for quite some time and while intellectually I understood he wouldn’t be dead, the writing and performances were so raw and convincing and the remaining characters so fascinating that I suspended any sense of disbelief and allowed myself to invest in the direction the film took. At risk of sounding naïve, I was genuinely surprised by the inevitable reveal of T’Challa being alive because I was so invested in the story.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Black Panther​

continued​

Not that Black Panther is entirely flawless.

Because of the somewhat scientific explanation of the Vibranium meteor advancing Wakanda I managed to get past most of my hangups about the “futuristic” stuff (and I actually liked T’Challa’s costume being hidden in his necklace, and the way his costume absorbed kinetic energy). Nevertheless, at times I still found some CGI visuals a little off-putting: invisible shields with glowing edges and all that stuff.

Along similar lines, the final battle between the two Panthers in the Maglev train hyper loop setting with their glowing costumes looked far too Tron-like for my tastes. At times not only were the sets very clearly computer generated, but so were the characters. The fake-looking scene where the two both fight while falling towards the track was incredibly cartoony, and this was reinforced by the sounds the actors were apparently looping. Every punch or kick was accompanied by verbal “hoaaaaa” and “bokk” sounds like kids pretending to be superheroes in the playground. Mercifully, this fight didn’t go on for twenty minutes as some of the final MCU fights seem to, but these “Pixar” scenes where everything on screen becomes entirely animated are possibly my least-favourite thing about the MCU because it never feels as real to me as the practical stuff. In the case of this particular film, this scene caused my investment to wobble. While it quickly recovered it did dilute things for me, which will affect how I rank it.

I’ve never found Klaw a particularly interesting Marvel villain (my main ongoing encounter with him was in Marvel Super Hero Secret Wars where he wasn’t well written or drawn), and so I was neither excited nor bothered by this universe’s alternative version of him. He didn’t really do much for me here, other than serving to drive the story forwards for other, more interesting, characters.


But then this isn’t really the kind of film where it’s about battling a single arch-enemy. There’s far more nuance here. The enemies are many, and they’re not who you may think on first glance. They are those who would keep one from one’s birthright or who threaten to make a safe and environment one of fear and threat. What’s more, this film deals with its threats by understanding them and reaching out to them. M’Baku is the initial antagonist and yet we grow to understand his reasons just as he grows to recognise that he’s stronger by changing his perspective on those he views as an enemy. Final antagonist Killmonger may end up with a dagger through his chest, but it comes with the offer of healing and - when refused - T’Challa listens to N’Jadaka’s wish to die a free man and sits with him respectfully.

N’Jadaka’s viewpoint is interesting, because he’s been affected and corrupted by seeing injustice, racism and slavery. He has gone about overcoming it in the wrong way but his perspective surely has a bearing on T’Challa’s decision for Wakanda to share its knowledge and resources with the world. T’Challa’s parting gift to N’Jadaka was to hear him and try to understand his point of view.

The themes of racism and slavery are part of the fabric of this film. Wakanda’s potential is dismissed and underestimated because it is viewed as a Third World country, which is something it uses to continue. The decision to show the world what Wakanda has feels momentous because the message is that the full potential is a gift to be shared, and sharing it in the face of others’ belittling cynicism takes courage, as does becoming integrated into the world when hiding feels like the safer option.

As mentioned earlier, T’Challa’s speech at the UN is a beautiful moment and one that feels hard earned. It comes with the sense that this is only the start of new challenges rather than an ending. But the emphasis is most definitely on dignity and hope. The fact that Chadwick Boseman was quietly battling colon cancer at the time this was filmed and would die just a couple of years later adds another layer of meaning and poignancy - and tragedy - to the hope he’s sharing here.

This film proves that after almost a full decade, the MCU can still deliver a top tier film that feels fresh, surprising and enjoyable in the spirit of the best of Marvel.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Here’s how Black Panther ranks for me:

1. Captain America: Civil War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Black Panther
4. Captain America: The First Avenger
5. Iron Man
6. The Incredible Hulk
7. Thor
8. Spider-Man: Homecoming
9. Ant Man
10. The Avengers
11. Doctor Strange
12. Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2
13. Guardians Of The Galaxy
14. Avengers: Age Of Ultron
15. Thor: The Dark World
16. Iron Man 2
17. Thor: Ragnarok
18. Iron Man 3

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Oh - one detail I forgot to mention about my general viewing experience:

Beginning with Thor: Ragnarok I've been watching the films in IMAX Enhanced Mode, which shows more details in certain scenes by removing the black matting at the top and bottom to fill the screen.

I hadn't realised this existed when I started my journey. Even after I discovered it I resisted watching as I thought I'd find it too jarring and distracting if the screen shape kept changing. As it turns out, I adjusted to it very quickly so that the changes don't register with me a great deal, but oh my goodness - because they fit the shape of my widescreen TV and fill the screen perfectly, the IMAX Enhanced scenes have really added a little something to my viewing experience and help the films feel that much more immersive, epic and grand in scale.

 

[Crimson]

Black Panther (2018)

This is a middle-of-the-pack movie for me. The film has some great surface and peripheral details, but I don't find it terribly interesting at its core. One of Ryan Coogler's great strengths as a director is his world building; he makes Wakanda feel like a real place, which is no small feat given its futuristic technology and not always convincing CGI. The film has a distinct vision, gorgeous visuals, a few great action set pieces early on, and is well grounded with its characters and relationships.

For me, the core problem with BLACK PANTHER is Black Panther. He's the least interesting character in his own movie, upstaged by N'Jadaka, Okoye, M'Baku, Nakia and Shuri. Presumably unintentional, but this harkens back to old school superhero movies of the 70s through 90s where it was a given that the true star of such films were the villains. This is one of the biggest improvements MCU made early on, strengthening the focus on the heroes (proving that you just can't win, early criticisms of the Marvel films noted the villains weren't interesting enough!). While I appreciate Boseman's performance with its regal dignity and quiet wit, T'Challa could have been taken out of this film and I'd have been totally OK with watching Okoye versus N'Jadaka. When the central character feels superfluous, something went off course.

The third act is about the worst in any MCU film since Phase One; the finale is noisy and messy, with oddly bad CGI. Its curious how uneven the FX can be in Marvel films, even within the same movie. The final battle between T'Challa & N'Jadaka has no weight to it and it's rather boring.

While it has no bearing on the film itself, BLACK PANTHER marks an unfortunate turn in the MCU fandom: the tedious culture wars of the late 2010s finally infested Marvel. This can be seen in the notable split between RT critics and audience scores. Any criticism of this movie was dismissed by some as "racism", which in turn drove an out-of-proportion fury in how some fans reviewed the film. This hostility would be more egregious in a MCU film not far on the horizon.

1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2. Guardians of the Galaxy vol 1
3. Captain America: Civil War
4. Thor: Ragnarok
5. The Avengers
6. Iron Man
7. Captain America: The First Avenger
8. Spider-Man: Homecoming
9. Black Panther
10. Doctor Strange
11. Avengers: Age of Ultron
12. Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2
13. Thor
14. The Incredible Hulk
15. Ant-Man
16. Iron Man 3
17. Iron Man 2
18. Thor: The Dark World

Updated: MCU Ratings on Google Sheets

 

[Mel O'Drama]

T'Challa could have been taken out of this film and I'd have been totally OK with watching Okoye versus N'Jadaka.

I do agree, but I actually liked this aspect. My experience of staying connected to the film and the other characters even after T'Challa's "death" would probably not have been possible had this been any of the other solo Marvel films to date. When I first heard about Wakanda Forever (before watching the Black Panther film) I thought it sounded like a terrible idea, but having seen the ensemble I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

the finale is noisy and messy, with oddly bad CGI.

Now that my buzz has worn off I'm now wavering slightly on my #3 position on the strength of that terrible scene where the animated Panthers battle it out in freefall.

The final battle between T'Challa & N'Jadaka has no weight to it and it's rather boring.

Once it came back to real live actors for the coup de grâce it was great, but the battle up to that point did reduce the emotional punch.

While it has no bearing on the film itself, BLACK PANTHER marks an unfortunate turn in the MCU fandom: the tedious culture wars of the late 2010s finally infested Marvel. This can be seen in the notable split between RT critics and audience scores. Any criticism of this movie was dismissed by some as "racism", which in turn drove an out-of-proportion fury in how some fans reviewed the film.

Oh yikes.

This hostility would be more egregious in a MCU film not far on the horizon.

Hmmm. I have my suspicions what this may be about, but we'll see.

Spoiler

 

[Crimson]

When I first heard about Wakanda Forever (before watching the Black Panther film I thought it sounded like a terrible idea, but having seen the ensemble I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

With retro- future-vision, there's some validity to the solid ensemble easier able to carry on without Chadwick; other series in the MCU would not have been so well positioned to move on without the lead. On the other hand, I could ponder the opposite: knowing we'll never get to see this version of T'Challa again perhaps its unfortunate he didn't get a more focused spotlight.

Now that my buzz has worn off I'm now wavering slightly on my #3 position on the strength of that terrible scene where the animated Panthers battle it out in freefall.

As probably noticed, I'm not particularly critical of such things. I accept these CGI slugfests are the inevitable third act of every superhero movie, and just hope they have good FX and some intelligence to them (and all the more grateful when a film shows some creativity, ala GoTGv1 and DOCTOR STRANGE). The climactic battle of BLACK PANTHER is objectively bad by any standard of this kind of movie and one of the worst Marvel has done. This has seriously impacted how I view the film, and even how often I have revisited it. There are some films in the MCU that I have watched more than a dozen times, but I have not gone back to BP more than two or three times because of the tediousness of that last battle.

I shuffle my rankings around all the time. BLACK PANTHER ranked higher when I first saw it, but the more I considered it the more it slid down; conversely, I had long considered CA:TFA to be no more than adequate but my estimation of that film has grown through the years.

In truth, I find a numeric ranking like we've been doing to be too specific and capricious. While I would quickly name CA:TWS as my favorite and T:TDW as my least, otherwise I find it much easier to think of these films in batches:

GREAT
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy vol 1
Captain America: Civil War
Thor: Ragnarok
The Avengers

GOOD
Iron Man
Captain America: The First Avenger
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Black Panther
Doctor Strange

DECENT
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Ant-Man

SUBPAR
Iron Man 3
Iron Man 2
Thor: The Dark World

 

[darkshadows38]

1stly i always do look on IMDB just to see what the rating is and sometimes the rating is right and sometimes it's wrong in my own opinion of course. for example i watched the film Mary (2019) on new years eve a pretty bad film it's not painful bad but it's a meh film if that makes any kind of sense. IMDB if i recall gave it a 4.4 when to me i don't think it was that bad to be fair so i give it if i had to chose i'd say a 4.8 which is a higher rating cause it wasn't god awful it's almost to it being a decent film and that's where it falls for me. as for Black Panther (2018) i dunno why people love this film so much it's in no way a bad film at all i'm not saying it is but it's just not among my favorites of the films that's all. i've never done a ranking for the MCU films so i dunno what i'd pick for this film or that film to be honest

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Avengers: Infinity War (2018)

​

If I were asked to sum up Infinity War in one word, the one that springs to mind is “bold”.

In terms of scale, scope and grandeur this tenth anniversary film is certainly the most ambitious MCU film to date, and it takes risk after risk right from the opening scene which - as of film’s end - seems to be carried through.

Beginning the on-screen deaths of known players with Heimdall and Loki is a logical move. They’re unexpected and a little shocking but, since Heimdall is at best a secondary character and Loki has been “dead” before, there’s at least a sense of acclimatising the viewer to the cost of war. All the same, it raises the stakes in this film. And this is just the beginning.

A couple of other notables: Firstly, we begin in space, which suggests epic grandeur. Secondly, when we join the Statesman at the beginning, the story is already underway. Most on board are are already dead or dying, and we never see the ship being attacked and taken. This is a two and a half hour film, but already there’s a feeling of having missed something because the story is just so large it’s impossible to fit it all in. Since we last saw the Statesman taking fight from Asgard for Earth there’s a reassuring continuity for those who’ve been following the films. But there’s also confidence in the audience to quickly catch up, even if this is their first Marvel film and it’s structured in a way that makes this possible. After all, we’ve all missed some of the story and have gaps to fill in.

This film feels very much like a ride. There’s no mistaking it’s an action film and it really comes thick and fast in waves. In many ways it’s a logical follow-up to Civil War, though the action here feels more super-heroic and less grounded. Civil War felt as though it built up to the Clash Of The Avengers as its big super-heroic sequence. Infinity War has these big colourful scenes breaking out left, right and centre.

Not that this is a complaint. This is the tenth anniversary blowout that moves the Infinity Saga sure-footedly towards an exciting conclusion. These are superheroes and it’s right that they should do their Avengers thing.

With the expansive character roster from far and wide and the larger than life scale of the whole thing, this feels very much like the cinematic equivalent of those 64 page annuals Marvel did during the Eighties where there’d be a huge story such as Storm becoming an Asgardian Goddess Of Thunder or The Evolutionary War. Perhaps, too, there’s a hint of those special series such as X-Men vs Alpha Flight or whatever. This worried me as I rarely enjoyed these “event” type comics as much as the (usually) more grounded goings on of the regular titles, as these specials so often had a predictable structure (heroes meet and clash over an initial misunderstanding before coming together to face a bigger threat together and parting friends), operated in a kind of vacuum and ultimately had little to no consequence on the characters’ canons.

Thankfully, at time of writing (when I’ve yet to watch Endgame), Infinity War is part of this particular universe’s canon and does seem set to have lasting implications.

continued…​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Avengers: Infinity War



continued​

With the first two Avengers films I felt action was at the expense of character. I felt that less with this film.

The various introductions each of the characters and groups (mostly) allowed us to spend at least a little time with in a typical setting from their own title and then moved them logically into the current crisis and group setting. In between the action there was time for little character moments, such as Tony and Pepper’s walk in Central Park where he told her about his dream that she was pregnant. I love that Tony and Pepper’s relationship has had key moments in little sub-plots in films outside the Iron Man films. First their engagement in Spider-Man: Homecoming. Now this.

As with the opening scene, the continuity remained strong throughout. Particularly welcome was the ongoing repercussions from Civil War. I love that the fallout and schisms from that film are still being felt here, particularly between Tony and Steve. I was disappointed to find that this felt pretty much like a sub-plot, but perhaps that’s the part of me that wants instant gratification and with many characters presumably absent from Endgame it’s my hope that there will be some exploration and closure on this in that film.

For me, the film’s expansiveness was a bar to Infinity War feeling like a top tier Avengers film. When a city's or a relationship's at stake I'm invested. When it comes to the fate of the entire universe it becomes too broad and impersonal.

Novel as the meetings were, it feels wrong to me to have the Guardians Of The Galaxy in an Avengers film. It never stopped feeling novel, and this meant I viewed much of the film somewhat objectively and from a distance.

At the time I was immersed in Earth-616, a version of the Guardians existed, but they were never really part of mainstream Marvel. I knew they were there, but I thought of them as existing in their own alternative, off-centre reality. This film confirmed that I neither needed nor wanted to see five full minutes of Chris Pratt doing a Thor impersonation. And even with their penchant for space-hopping, I just haven’t got my head round the idea of the Guardians interacting with our friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.

Speaking of Spidey, I’m really not a fan of the Iron Spider costume. In a world with Stark technology at the centre it makes sense, but it just looks too showy to me, and too far away from the iconic traditional costume.

This goes double for the Iron Hulk armour, which I suppose is technically Iron Banner since Bruce was in charge here. It seemed a way of having more Mark Ruffalo and if I hadn’t decided before, this is the film where I’ve become firm in my resolution that’s just not a good thing in my eyes. With each passing film it seems as though Bruce is becoming Mark and while I’m sure he’s a lovely guy, my feeling is it should be the other way round.

continued…​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Avengers: Infinity War



continued​

A little note: I knew of the Thanos Snap thing that ended the film. I can’t remember how I found out, but it’s one of those “Luke, I am your father” type things that just seems to be floating round in general pop culture knowledge. Just a couple of days ago, a question on The Chase asked how Thanos wiped out half the population of the universe (if I remember, alternatives in the ABC multiple choice question were “stamping his foot” and “clapping his hands”). There’s also the small matter of me having watched Spider-Man: Far From Home not long before starting to watch the MCU.

However, I’d thought the Snap was the ending to Endgame, and so I’d wearily accepted before watching that I knew how the Infinity Saga ended. As the Snap approached I actually had to double-check that I wasn’t watching Endgame by mistake (which at that point looked possible given Infinity War’s cold opening). This means that whatever happens in the final Avengers film will be a surprise to me. I do know that some characters appear as alternative versions of themselves, but I have no idea if that’s the basis for the entire film.

The CGI was pretty decent in this film, I thought. Settings looked good enough and characters such as Thanos and Ebony Maw looked great. There’s no getting round the fact that there was an abundance of CGI used for battle sequences, powers and the film’s shocking ending. Good as it looked most of the time, it’s difficult not to forget that a lot of what was happening on screen during these key moments was whipped up on a computer somewhere. Intellectually I understood that what was happening mattered, but because of the method used in telling the story that never made its way to my heart to have emotional resonance.

However, I have to applaud the chutzpah of the film for not only giving us the world’s biggest cliffhanger, but bringing it right back to character for the Knotsy final image where it came down to beautiful dramatic music playing as one character lives with the consequences of the huge event that they’ve just caused.

I also have high hopes for Endgame going small and dealing with reactions to the event.

As an entry to the MCU, this film is important and critical, and it mostly meets its ambitions.

The post-credit scene and that logo on Fury’s pager also has me very excited about Captain Marvel. I know the character (at least from her Ms. Marvel/Binary days of the Seventies and Eighties) and I was intrigued by an earlier reference (was it Civil War?) where someone (Fury?) told someone else (Steve?) never to speak her name. I have to know what this is all about, and I’ll be finding out very soon.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Ant-Man And The Wasp (2018)

​

As sequels go, this feels like it’s more of the same. It’s not a dramatically different film and it’s not significantly better. But neither is it as disappointing as, say, the Iron Man sequels. In a nutshell, if you enjoyed the first film, changes are you’ll enjoy this one.

The story is a logical progression of the original. I’d be surprised if there was anyone who didn’t think we were going to go back in order to find Janet after watching the first film. Nicely, it also picks up the consequences of Scott’s role in Civil War, with Scott under house arrest and Hank and Hope fugitives for their role in creating the suit Scott used. This means there’s been estrangement in that relationship, which gives us room for some character journeys all over again.

Thrown into this mix is Bill Foster. In a nice touch, Goliath gets a kind of name-check, albeit as a project Hank and Bill worked on together. Ideally I’d love to have seen some flashbacks to Bill as Goliath as we did with Hank and Janet’s superhero days, but I suppose you can’t have it all.

It’s good news/bad news with the strengths and weaknesses from the first film.

The “comedy” characters from the first film are back, with many of the same notes hit. It kind of works.

The action scenes are fun and as creative as you’d expect for a premise in which characters variously shrink to a tiny size or grow to over eighty feet. It’s a little silly at times, but for me it’s silly in a good way… most of the time.

What’s lacking here compared with the first film is Scott’s WTF reaction to shrinking, which was a bit part of the first film’s fun. Now he knows what’s going on there’s a layer taken away. There are enough twists to keep it feeling at least a little unpredictable, though.

Scott’s relationship with his ex-wife and her new boyfriend are now in a good place, and he seems to see Cassie whenever he feels. All of which is heartening and enjoyable, but lacking the journey of the first film. However, there is at least an undercurrent of concern that he could lose all he’s earned if he’s caught breaching his house arrest in these final days before he’s a free man which brings a degree of suspense.

As antagonists go, Ghost is the film’s weak point for me. The visuals around her powers/breakdown are interesting up to a point, but feel a bit “made for TV”. Despite some attempt to make her a tragic character, it never really flies for me. Actress Hannah-John Kamen plays her as fairly arch and one-note - all sideways smirks and righteous anger - and remains blandly uninteresting after the inevitable denouement.

It’s great fun to see de-aged versions of Michelle Pfeiffer, Michael Douglas and Laurence Fishburne. They look good, and I was fascinated that in one or two of these cases they look as they looked decades ago, but with their “younger” features resembling their older selves (including, to put it delicately, slightly less mobile faces) rather than exactly as we knew them to look.

With this film, to all intents and purposes, taking place in isolation from events in the wider MCU, the twist in the mid-credits scene was a wonderful touch - made more gratifying by the fact that I never saw it coming. It’s exciting to see the Snap from a different perspective, and it’s given Ant-Man his own cliffhanger which really shows the possibilities are endless.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

The latest two films join the rankings, with Black Panther retrospectively re-positioned, to give my current MCU Top Twenty.

Positioning Infinity War wasn't easy. It's a great story and a key MCU film, but was dragged down for me by the CGI-heavy second half, the fast-talking Guardians Of The Galaxy colliding into the MCU, and details such as the silly armour for Spidey and Bruce. It's an impressive film but there was ultimately too much going on to too many people on a scale that lacked intimacy for it to be a first-rate watch for me:

1. Captain America: Civil War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America: The First Avenger
4. Iron Man
5. Black Panther
6. The Incredible Hulk
7. Thor
8. Spider-Man: Homecoming
9. Ant-Man
10. Avengers: Infinity War
11. The Avengers
12. Ant-Man And The Wasp
13. Doctor Strange
14. Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2
15. Guardians Of The Galaxy
16. Avengers: Age Of Ultron
17. Thor: The Dark World
18. Iron Man 2
19. Thor: Ragnarok
20. Iron Man 3

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I could ponder the opposite: knowing we'll never get to see this version of T'Challa again perhaps its unfortunate he didn't get a more focused spotlight.

Yes, there is that, and it's a shame, although it does add a certain mysterious mythology to his portrayal.

shuffle my rankings around all the time. BLACK PANTHER ranked higher when I first saw it, but the more I considered it the more it slid down; conversely, I had long considered CA:TFA to be no more than adequate but my estimation of that film has grown through the years.

I suspect I may view the films differently after repeated viewings or even when the dust has settled a little. Time will tell which ones will have the most resonance for me.

In truth, I find a numeric ranking like we've been doing to be too specific and capricious. While I would quickly name CA:TWS as my favorite and T:TDW as my least, otherwise I find it much easier to think of these films in batches

Oh - I'm going to have a go at doing it this way at some point.

 

[Crimson]

With the expansive character roster from far and wide and the larger than life scale of the whole thing, this feels very much like the cinematic equivalent of those 64 page annuals Marvel did during the Eighties

There's a valid comparison to INFINITY WAR and those double-sized annuals -- epic in scale, with lots of guest appearances and cross overs -- but as you note, those stories tended to be self-contained. INFINITY WAR is both the culmination of plots that have been building for a decade, and also a cliffhanger. It's nearly impossible to judge this movie by any normal cinematic standards of narrative fiction; although I suppose someone could watch it in isolation, it's obviously not meant to be and I suspect very few people have watched IW without seeing at least some previous Marvel films. All standard expectations of self-contained story, emotional arcs and character development are somewhat moot. This movie is, as you note, an event. Like CIVIL WAR -- only more so --INFINTY WAR manages to juggle a massive cast of characters and give each of them moments to shine that felt accurate to their personas.

And what an event! Although I have seen all MCU films since TWS (minus one) in theaters, overall I am fairly ambivalent to the theater-going experience. INFINTY WAR was an exception. The energy level of the audience was off-the-charts. There were a few scenes that resulted in thunderous applause. (Although that may be a distinctly American reaction. In talking to Canadian and British friends, it seems the theater experience is much more staid elsewhere.)

I started to give thoughts to specifics in the film, but caught myself -- some of those, in fact, happened in END GAME, so spoilers narrowly averted! I'll have to refresh my memories in INFNITY WAR specifics before commenting in detail.

was intrigued by an earlier reference (was it Civil War?) where someone (Fury?) told someone else (Steve?) never to speak her name.

Hmm, I must admit I'm not sure where that reference was. I don't recall Captain Marvel being mentioned or implied prior to the end of INFINITY WAR; if so, there's a little tidbit I missed.

As sequels go, this feels like it’s more of the same. It’s not a dramatically different film and it’s not significantly better.

I am fairly indifferent about both Ant-Man films; they're passable entertainment but too frivolous for the genre for my taste. (Although that's preferable to being overly dour.) Everything about both films -- the tone, the supporting characters, the trope of the guy as a goof and the woman as the ultra-component scold -- feels like a sitcom. As much fun as it has been, having Ant-Man with shrinking and growing powers just doesn't match the character's motif.

1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2. Guardians of the Galaxy vol 1
3. Captain America: Civil War
4. Thor: Ragnarok
5. The Avengers: Infinity War
6. The Avengers
7. Iron Man
8. Captain America: The First Avenger
9. Spider-Man: Homecoming
10. Black Panther
11. Doctor Strange
12. Avengers: Age of Ultron
13. Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2
14. Thor
15. The Incredible Hulk
16. Ant-Man
17. Ant-Man and the Wasp
18. Iron Man 3
19. Iron Man 2
20. Thor: The Dark World

Updated: MCU Ratings on Google Sheets

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I started to give thoughts to specifics in the film, but caught myself -- some of those, in fact, happened in END GAME, so spoilers narrowly averted! I'll have to refresh my memories in INFNITY WAR specifics before commenting in detail.

Yeah - I haven't seen Endgame yet but it already feels as though both will be very interconnected with one another with some overlaps. I'd guess they were probably written as one story and possibly filmed alongside one another.

Hmm, I must admit I'm not sure where that reference was. I don't recall Captain Marvel being mentioned or implied prior to the end of INFINITY WAR; if so, there's a little tidbit I missed.

After a little confusion (and a spot of gentle investigation) I think I've put my finger on it.

According to an MCU wiki, Captain Marvel was mentioned in Spider-Man: Far From Home. I watched that film less than a month ago, not realising I'd be diving into the MCU so soon afterward. Some of the dialogue from that film had presumably got logged in my collective memory without separating it from the earlier films to create a slightly distorted chronology. It's my own version of an alternative universe.

I am fairly indifferent about both Ant-Man films; they're passable entertainment but too frivolous for the genre for my taste.

I can understand how that would be the case, and I do get the sitcom comparison you made.

While I find them entertaining and think Paul Rudd is an engaging lead they don't feel particularly important to the MCU as a whole.

As much fun as it has been, having Ant-Man with shrinking and growing powers just doesn't match the character's motif.

It's worked for me as a nod to the Giant-Man and Goliath identities which I associate with the Ant-Man character (albeit mainly Hank Pym's iteration) and it has a certain logic given the size-changing disc things used in the film.

But you're absolutely right: "Big" is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of ants.