“Hangin’ on a hope”... the Carpenters thread

[Monzo]

I love these "unofficial" background stories! What happened to Karen's ex-husband Thomas Burris? Is he still alive? Nobody ever mentions him. What did this marriage do to Karen?

I think A&M got really worried about Carpenters' success during the "A Kind Of Hush" era. "There's A Kind Of Hush" and "I Need To Be In Love" are great standard Carpenters songs, but failed to reach top 10, maybe that's why A&M thought something different would work like "Goofus" which didn't.

Looking back I'm still surprised "Touch Me When We're Dancing" reached no 16 in 1981 when Carpenters were already over on top 40 radio and were only doing great in adult contemporary charts.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Richard; an egomaniacal control-freak battling drug addiction

Richard insists Karen was disappointed with it and never wanted it to be released but Phil Ramone, who produced it, and several of the musicians who worked on said Karen was pleased with the album and hoped it would be a hit.

What happened to Karen's ex-husband Thomas Burris? Is he still alive? Nobody ever mentions him. What did this marriage do to Karen?

The behind-the-scenes stuff is fascinating, and even more so because we'll never hear the truth. I'd hazard a guess there's always been a lot of denial (and self-denial) around a lot of the more difficult aspects of their lives, and I'd say that pervades to this day. In fact one could argue that the regular revisions to their songs to add a new sheen and retcon that era are symbolic.

I've read a number of comments from Carpenters fans who blame Thomas entirely for Karen's anorexia and death, which I think is quite unfair. I don't know a great deal about it, but it seems that the marriage wasn't good for Karen at that point, and I dare say he didn't understand or support her as much as he might. But it was one of many contributions to Karen's low self esteem, when she'd spent her life with what sounds like a very critical mother and in the shadow of a brother who took a great deal of credit for the Carpenters' success, arguably at Karen's expense.

I first heard "Something's Missing (In My Life)" when it was recorded by Paul Jabara (who wrote it with Jay Asher). Jabara is best known for writing Disco hits like "Last Dance", "Enough is Enough" and "It's Raining Men"; he wrote and produced several big hits for Donna, Barbra and Diana; Whitney's first recording is on one of Jabara's albums. Karen having a hit with a Paul Jabara song would have made sense at the time but it never happened. It's a shame because Karen did a great job with the song (I think she excelled at melancholy material), I wish someone would record new backing tracks (it sounds like a demo to me, not a finished recording)

Oh wow. If I knew Karen had recorded this I'd forgotten. Her version is gorgeous.

I have the Paul and Donna duet in my collection, but I'm most familiar with the 1979 Marcia Hines version:

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Passages is an interesting album with an even more interesting backstory.

I think A&M got really worried about Carpenters' success during the "A Kind Of Hush" era.

On the subject of studio albums, do you have a favourite Carpenters album? Are there any that are essential and any that are less so?

My Carps collection has been mostly limited to numerous compilations plus Lovelines and As Time Goes By (which I consider compilations anyway) and the two Christmas albums.

Now I'm starting to fill those huge gaps in the studio albums. Going on track lists plus availability (since some albums seem to be out of print), I've ordered Horizon and A Song For You, which both look pretty solid to me. In fact the latter almost looks like a greatest hits with so many familiar tracks.

 

[Monzo]

On the subject of studio albums, do you have a favourite Carpenters album? Are there any that are essential and any that are less so?

I've ordered Horizon and A Song For You, which both look pretty solid to me.

A Song For You is a fantastic choice. Besides great singles I love tracks A Song For You and Road Ode.

Close To You, Carpenters and A Song For You are my favorite Carpenters albums. These three albums feature songs from my favorite writing teams for the Carpenters: Burt Bacharach & Hal David and Roger Nichols & Paul Williams and John Bettis & Richard Carpenter. The other two duos broke up, so Richard Carpenter suddenly had problems finding great new material. It was very smart that A Song For You follow-up album Now And Then's Side Two contained a cover medley (except Yesterday Once More intro), but on Horizon they had to fill an entire album with new material. Of course there are covers on Horizon, but there are no highlights when it comes to new albums tracks. My favorite non-singles are (I'm Caught Between) Goodbye And I Love You and Love Me For What I Am.

I prefer Horizon to Now And Then, because I've never been a fan of this oldies medley on Now And Then. Every subsequent album has its highlights, but only these three early 70s albums are amazing to me.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

A Song For You is a fantastic choice. Besides great singles I love tracks A Song For You and Road Ode.

Oh great. I know I've got good stuff to look forward to. I'd actually forgotten A Song For You wasn't a single. Because of its inclusion on a number of compilations albums I've grown to think of it as having been released.

Close To You, Carpenters and A Song For You are my favorite Carpenters albums.

That's good to know. I'll add the other two to my "must acquire at some point" list.

These three albums feature songs from my favorite writing teams for the Carpenters: Burt Bacharach & Hal David and Roger Nichols & Paul Williams and John Bettis & Richard Carpenter. The other two duos broke up, so Richard Carpenter suddenly had problems finding great new material. It was very smart that A Song For You follow-up album Now And Then's Side Two contained a cover medley (except Yesterday Once More intro), but on Horizon they had to fill an entire album with new material.

I'm loving all this background information about the songs, albums and composers.

Of course there are covers on Horizon, but there are no highlights when it comes to new albums tracks. My favorite non-singles are (I'm Caught Between) Goodbye And I Love You and Love Me For What I Am.

Well both of those tracks will be brand new to me so I'm looking forward to discovering them.

I've never been a fan of this oldies medley on Now And Then.

I feel the same way. Now And Then was on a shortlist of studio albums to buy first, but the medley put me off.

 

[Monzo]

Richard Carpenter is doing a virtual event in September.

The Musical Legacy (Book) by The Carpenters

The definitive biography of one of the most enduring and endeared recording artists in history—the Carpenters—is told for the first time from the perspective of Richard Carpenter, through more than 100 hours of exclusive interviews and some 200 photographs from Richard's personal archive, many...

talkshop.live

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Richard Carpenter is doing a virtual event in September.

Looks like a wonderful opportunity for fans worldwide.

I'm curious about the book. It's the first time a Carps book has been authorised by Richard which makes it noteworthy. At the same time, though, I can't help feeling it will pull its punches significantly for that very reason and end up giving a somewhat skewed and sanitised perspective.

 

[Grant Jennings]

Looks like a wonderful opportunity for fans worldwide.

I'm curious about the book. It's the first time a Carps book has been authorised by Richard which makes it noteworthy. At the same time, though, I can't help feeling it will pull its punches significantly for that very reason and end up giving a somewhat skewed and sanitised perspective.

I'm sure the book will be as "squeaky clean" as the Carpenters' image was in the 70s.

 

[Monzo]

Wasn't Richard also involved in the tv-movie The Karen Carpenter Story? Before it aired he liked it, but years later he trashed it. Haven't watched that tv-movie yet, it is still on my watchlist.

I've watched Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story many years ago. Of course I get why Richard blocked Superstar's theatrical release, but I remember this movie struck me when I first saw it. The intro with Karen's mother shouting and that strange sound is so intense.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Wasn't Richard also involved in the tv-movie The Karen Carpenter Story? Before it aired he liked it, but years later he trashed it.

Yes. There are lots of accounts by cast and crew that suggest he was a lot more involved than he was supposed to be, resulting in daily rewrites and a final product that was a lot softer than originally written.

Haven't watched that tv-movie yet, it is still on my watchlist.

I'm reasonably sure I saw it in 1990 when it first aired in the UK, but I don't remember it having any impact and thirty years on I can remember nothing about it.

Incidentally, looking at IMDb, I've just realised it had the same director as Jaws The Revenge, which might explain why one of the actors from that film played Richard.

I've watched Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story many years ago. Of course I get why Richard blocked Superstar's theatrical release, but I remember this movie struck me when I first saw it. The intro with Karen's mother shouting and that strange sound is so intense.

I've only watched the trailer and read a few things about it over the years, but it looks very creative and probably well ahead of its time.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Since I'm exploring some of the Carps' studio albums, I thought I'd post a few track-by-track thoughts as I listen in full to these albums for the first time. They're not chronological or alphabetical or anything. It'll just be the order in which I buy and listen to them.

First up: an album I bought last week...

Horizon



Side One

​

Aurora and Eventide were two tracks I heard (sequenced as one) for the first time a couple of weeks ago, off the back of the Guardian’s 20 Greatest Carps songs article James posted here on the 18th. It’s wonderful to hear them in context, as dreamy, melancholy bookends to an album journey, with Aurora our starting point. It sets the tone wonderfully and is all the better for its brevity, leaving me wanting more.

Only Yesterday is a track I’ve long been fond of for its warmth and its balance of smooth ballad verses and the cheerful singalong optimism of the chorus, which keeps its edges thanks to the implication that the protagonist is emerging from dark and difficult times. Thanks to Bernie Grundman’s artful mastering it’s never sounded better than on this album, and one of my favourite aspects of the song is the raspy grunting bassline from the guitar that accompanies the verses. I’ve found myself playing this track a lot over the past few days and love it at least as much as ever. Its placement on the album makes for an interesting starting point as I've always thought of it as the happy end of a journey. But perhaps it’s here to suggest the cycles of love and suggest - in a broader context - that tomorrow won’t be brighter than today after all.

Desperado is a Carps song that I’ve long felt I should like more than I have. Hearing it in the context of the album has remedied that. Here it feels very much like Solitaire Part I. They’re certainly tied thematically, with Karen singing about (or in this case to) a loner who does their own thing at a cost. It wouldn’t be a stretch to imagine that this is the same indifferent man from Solitaire at an earlier stage in his journey (though equally, she could even be singing about herself: a thought which has really made the song click with me). Further tying them together are the songs’ sonics. Both have a similar structure with a poignantly fragile verse giving way to the power ballad chorus. Solitaire’s long been a favourite of mine, and I’m rather surprised it’s taken me this long to recognise their similarities. My “greatest hits” Carpenters history has much to answer for.

Of all the tracks on the album, Please Mr Postman feels almost jarringly incongruous in terms of sound. It’s tied to the track that follows it by the throwback nature, to the surrounding tracks by being a cover of a popular song and to the album in general by its theme of longing. All the same, the uptempo sound and cheery vocal feel to me a little saccharine and bubblegum on an album that’s otherwise fairly grown up and mellow. Again, the album placement has a bearing on this. If it were placed after Only Yesterday or either side of Happy it might stand out less. But perhaps the entire point of it coming between two ballads is for it to pop.

Side One’s closer, I Can Dream Can’t I? is just beautiful. Billy May’s sweeping arrangement feels very Mantovani-esque which works perfectly with Karen’s plaintive vocal, riding along on it. The additional lyrics in the preamble have intrigued me. I’m only familiar with a couple of other versions (The Andrews Sisters’ original and Mama Cass Elliot’s lovely 1968 rendition), neither of which have these lyrics. From time to time I’ve wondered if they were added to include the album title. The song title, by the way seems to sum up the theme of the album, which is very dreamy and frequently about dreamers.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Horizon



Side Two

​

Solitaire is a longtime favourite Carps track. Everything just works about it. Karen’s voice is beautifully showcased and her breath control is just amazing. There are some long sentences here, with elongated words and a frequently held note at the end of a sentence. And it’s all done with close mic at the lower end of her range. Sustaining a belted note is fairly easy compared with this, but Karen makes it sound so effortless that the listener’s focus is drawn to the lyrics and arrangement rather than her technique. Over the years, I’ve listened to other versions a great deal more: the Single Version (those added subtle guitar flourishes going into the chorus just sound “right” to my ears) and the 2002 Remix which removes a lot of the wet mouth sounds and clicks from the first verse, making for a more pleasant listen with headphones (unless ASMR is your thing). It’s been something of a revelation to revisit this original album version which goes for simplicity and is no worse for it. Karen is said (apocryphally) to have disliked this song, but that’s never really had a bearing on my enjoyment of it. It’s one of those that I seem to enjoy more as the years go by.


Note: Apart from Eventide (which, as mentioned is still a very recent discovery), every single track from Happy onwards is brand new to me, which is great.


The opening guitar of Happy sounds incredibly contemporary. Thematically, it feels very much tied to Only Yesterday… like a mediation that fits chronologically before Only Yesterday’s reflection. It’s unsurprising, then, to see it was that song’s B-side. But it’s also the perfect song to follow on from Solitaire since it continues to use games of chance as an analogy for love. This is what gives the song its edge for me. No matter how happy it sounds in terms of lyric and melody, there’s an underlying cynicism which perhaps suggests that it’s all down to chance and luck, neither of which is renowned for their permanence. There's happy, and then there's Carpenters happy.

(I’m Caught Between) Goodbye And I Love You feels very much like a classic Carpenter/Bettis track (which it is), but its unfamiliarity makes it seem a little more surprising. It almost feels a little mid-tier… but in a good way. Like a newly found gem that will show its colours with a little bit of time and attention. I enjoy the country vibe it has at times. It can be heard in the intro, and I picked up some steel slide guitar in the track as it went along. I liked it to begin with and even more so with another couple of plays. This is one that has potential to become a true Carps favourite with me after a few more spins.

It’s news to me that Love Me For What I Am was the B-side to Solitaire. Interesting. The song’s message is very similar indeed to the preceding track, but the more forceful chorus puts a different spin on it. If (I’m Caught Between) Goodbye… is a dawning realisation of a sad reality, then this is the ultimatum that follows as the protagonist takes action. And it’s no longer their choice to make. The ball is firmly back in the court of their lover. The more uptempo chorus felt unexpected. On first play it took me out of the song a little as the first verse really drew me in and I was expecting it to be a complete ballad (if I wasn’t so familiar with Only Yesterday I might have felt the same way about that, but I don’t even think about that aspect anymore with that track). Re-listening with an understanding of the song’s rhythms, I’ve found it working for me really well. Love Me… is certainly very strong lyrically. And Karen’s delivery of that final line “I must be free” is incredibly beautiful: sad and hopeful all at the same time, and beautifully delivered. Once again I’m in awe that she can sustain a gentle note this effectively.

Things come full-circle with Eventide. Aurora’s twin, separated at birth, brings the story to its inevitable conclusion with Karen alone again. I suppose it could be read a couple of different ways. In the context of the album I’ve assumed the friends to whom she wearily returns are those in her home town as she returns from the marital home. But it’s open to interpretation. It’s interesting to think about hearing this song in isolation, away from the album. In that context it’s a hazy, whimsical stream of consciousness about reaching the end of the day. And in that light it’s perhaps even more perfect.




Horizon is an incredibly easy album to listen to in full because of its brevity and cohesion. It’s certainly a much more moody and melancholy and emotionally vulnerable album than I’d have expected (especially considering it contains Please Mr Postman). And there’s (for me) surprisingly little schmaltz and I applaud the Carps for that. At 36 minutes in length it’s also a very lean album that I’m already discovering stands up to repeat listens. This is the first studio album released in Karen’s lifetime that I’ve taken the time to explore and I feel it was a great starting place because it’s left me hungry for more.

 

[Monzo]

Your review is a pleasure to read and it even makes me a little sad because I remember how excited I was when I listened to Carpenters songs for the first time. It's wonderful that you can experience something like this.

I look forward to your review of the album "A Song For You".

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Your review is a pleasure to read

Oh thank you. I'm really glad you liked it.

it even makes me a little sad because I remember how excited I was when I listened to Carpenters songs for the first time. It's wonderful that you can experience something like this.

I know what you mean. I feel that way about many artists whose work I've followed. I'm always a little envious when someone is discovering them for the first time, but I also find myself enjoying the music a little more. Sometimes seeing a familiar artist through someone else's eyes, can bring them to life in a different kind of way.

Half the songs on Horizon were new to me, and best of all I really liked the ones I hadn't heard before. I feel very excited about discovering more "new" Carps music.

I look forward to your review of the album "A Song For You".

Thanks again. Unfortunately, that one's been delayed. Even though I ordered it last week it's out of stock and I'm waiting for Amazon to get more in. I'm getting a little anxious that they'll end up cancelling the order, but we'll see.

The good news is that I've invested in another Carps album which I'm hoping to explore later in the week:

 

[Monzo]

Carpenters Christmas is Christmas to me. I love their Christmas albums. "Merry Christmas Darling" has become a modern classic. Their version of "Do You Hear What I Hear?" is my favorite version ever. "(There's No Place Like) Home For The Holidays" is great, as is "Little Altar Boy ".

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Carpenters Christmas is Christmas to me. I love their Christmas albums.

Same here. I have the Christmas Collection CD which has both albums, and they usually get quite a number of spins throughout December.

"Merry Christmas Darling" has become a modern classic. Their version of "Do You Hear What I Hear?" is my favorite version ever. "(There's No Place Like) Home For The Holidays" is great, as is "Little Altar Boy ".

All great choices. My most-played track from the two albums is Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas, which is a truly gorgeous Karen vocal.

 

[Monzo]

Richard's third solo album "Richard Carpenter's Piano Songbook" is getting released on October 22. No new songs on it, only new piano interpretations of Carpenters recordings. I'm going to buy it sooner or later.

Richard Carpenter Interprets His Carpenters Favorites For New ‘Piano Songbook’

Richard Carpenter will release his ’Piano Songbook’ on October 22 via Decca, featuring his instrumental interpretations of Carpenters hits and favorites.

www.udiscovermusic.com

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Richard's third solo album "Richard Carpenter's Piano Songbook" is getting released on October 22. No new songs on it, only new piano interpretations of Carpenters recordings.

While similar to the ground he covered in his second album, it seems more stripped back and intimate.

I wonder if Richard was "inspired" by the success of Benny Andersson's Piano album.

 

[Monzo]

Here's the entire virtual event:

The Musical Legacy (Book) by The Carpenters

The definitive biography of one of the most enduring and endeared recording artists in history—the Carpenters—is told for the first time from the perspective of Richard Carpenter, through more than 100 hours of exclusive interviews and some 200 photographs from Richard's personal archive, many...

talkshop.live

I watched it, but if I hadn't, I wouldn't be missing out much. It's nice to see how Richard is behaving almost 75 years old, because he had to be on point for 90 minutes.

 

[James from London]

this recent list of the Carpenters' best in the Guardian.

And now it's Donna Summer's turn:

Donna Summer’s greatest songs – ranked!

As her ill-starred 1981 album I’m a Rainbow gets remixed and reissued, we celebrate the queen of disco’s best work

www.theguardian.com