• A little forum update...We're planning an upgrade.

    Find out more about what's planned and how you can help support the forum

    Click here for the details

Dallas Character A problem named Lucy

A

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Poor Lucy Ewing/Charlene Tilton

TPTB didn't know what to do with her, after the first or second season her stories revolved around her either sitting by the pool or getting into one bad romance from another (except for Mickey) and occasionally working in grubby diners, then they had her remarry her douche bag 1st husband and for the next three years she was shipped off to Atlanta and then she was forgotten about.

Even during her second go around she was wasted, sure she was no longer a pool lounger and she had outgrown her bad habit of getting into dodgy relationships but by 1988-89 Lucy seemed to belong to Dallas's distant past of the late 70s/early 80s and seemed out of place in the post Pam era Dallas, they had her dabble in some art, befriend Cally and then she shoved out of Dallas again this time to join, Ellie, Ray, Jenna, Charlie and Clayton in Europe.

It's not like Charlene Tilton was a bad actress, she wasn't the best, and certainly not in the league of Barbara Bel Geddes or Victoria Principle but she was a darn sight better than
April, Cally an Michelle, her best work on Dallas was during the Mickey Trotter era, and Tilton was very believeable as the supportive, loving girlfriend, it was like Lucy had finally grown up and we would see Lucy forge out her own niche in life, not necessarily in Ewing Oil but maybe Lucy could get involved in the land like her Southworth ancestors.

TPTB didn't know how to use Lucy after season 2, and Lucy looked too out of place on Knots, and had she been on Knots, The Ewings of California would've been too central and it would've turned into Dallas mk2 and with Lucy living in Knots would there have been any need to introduce Abby or Paige?

So how should that have solved a problem named Lucy? My suggestion, TPTB should've taken Lucy out of Dallas and no where near LA and give her a spinoff for her to do set in a private Ivy League college or in a career field suite for Lucy, make it and ensembled show rather than have Charlene Tilton as the "main star" Lucy needed to be around more people her own age and doing something meaty and worthwhile

Would Lucy in another spinoff series have worked or not?
 
Sea - Boo! - Er

Sea - Boo! - Er

Telly Talk Warrior
I always thought they should have done a spin-off about The Coopers of Atlanta, with Mitch working in the hospital, but Lucy In College is a great idea.
 
Presea

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
You forgot to mention one dodgy relationship that Lucy had after she returned: Casey Denault, or as I like to call him, Casy Default. But it's not surprising that anyone could forget him since he was a total snooze fest of a character, in my opinion. That was Lucy's last full storyline. After that, she was only shown a couple of random times for minute or less. Usually just to throw a jab at JR or talk to Cally. What was ironic was that she was still put in the opening credits even though she was only getting enough airtime for a guest star. It was an insult to Charlene Tilton's acting skills to just throw her in there like a random character, in my opinion.
 
Rove

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
I had issues with Lucy the character from the get go. It didn't help that Charlene's acting was sub-standard compared to the others. Perhaps it was her age. Wasn't she just 17 when filming commenced in that first 5 part series? It also didn't help the writers paired her off with Ray who was already going grey. I'm surprised, looking back, that more viewers were not offended. To me it came off just as creepy when JR finally nails himself a child bride (Cally) several seasons later.

I only warmed to Lucy with her involvement with Mickey. The director finally toned down her over-acting each scene. Since viewing Dallas for the umpteenth time I still find it puzzling why she was raised at Southfork. When Dallas first screened and Valene makes her first appearance I had this gut feeling JR might have been Lucy's father since Valene was terrified of him. This would have justified her existence.

When Knot's Landing was given the green light it would have been best to let Lucy migrate to California and be done with it. I think her personality would have suited Los Angeles anyway.
 
L

lbf522

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Lucy was interesting in the mini series. She was a female version of JR which made sense if JR and Sue Ellen were there to influence her.

In the series itself she was as hypocritical and self righteous was the rest which was a shame. The writers had avenues to go with Lucy if they really taken the time to try.

Mitch turned me off with his annoying pride nonsense which got tiresome after while.

Back to Lucy, Lucy on Knots Landing might have been interesting or a spinoff with her and Mitch or her alone.

JR trying to keep Valene and Lucy apart never made any sense to me. Logically, if Valene and Lucy reconnect, they would leave Dallas and Gary would have no reason to come back.
 
Soaplover

Soaplover

Telly Talk Fan
Lucy was the tragic character of the show. Gary/val got a second chance with each other and with parenthood. JR believed all Ewings were raised in Southfork hence why he had Lucy taken from Val...yet he got a chance at being a parent to his own child.

Its no wonder she never had a heakthy relationship nor ever became a parent. I think it would have been better had she admitted when retuening in 1988 that she feared becoming a parent due to a lack of a stable upbringing...and being unsure if she could love a child.
 
Rove

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
lbf522 said:
JR trying to keep Valene and Lucy apart never made any sense to me. Logically, if Valene and Lucy reconnect, they would leave Dallas and Gary would have no reason to come back.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly and I believe I may have spoken about this very issue in another thread. JR had no interest in Lucy and found her tiresome. Just the mention of Gary or Valene made JR dry-reach so why keep Lucy around? She could easily have been packed off to L.A., to live with her parents and made the odd visit to Dallas to visit Miss Ellie and partake in any business affairs involving Ewing Oil since she had 10 voting shares.

It didn't make any sense to have Lucy in Dallas from the beginning if there wasn't a significant back-story just waiting to be uncovered as the series progresses. Valene was terrified of JR.

I would suggest a story along the lines of Valene and Gary dating however JR had a secret crush on her. At one of the Ewing Bar-b-ques JR has too much to drink and rapes Valene, with the end result she falls pregnant. Valene flees Dallas and Gary only to return just prior to JR marrying Sue Ellen. Valene arranges a secret meeting involving JR and Gary and begins to inform them why she fled however before Gary hears the whole sordid story he storms out not knowing that JR had in fact raped Valene. Gary goes back to Southfork, packs a suitcase and bolts, never to be seen again until Bobby bumps into him years later.

Valene tells JR he is the father of Lucy. JR believes Valene is going to blackmail him since she arrives the day before the wedding. Valene responds by saying she has returned to make things right and that Lucy should know her father. JR is not having any of it since he thinks it will cast him in a dark light with Jock and Miss Ellie and jeopardize his relationship with Sue Ellen.

The day after the wedding JR has his men track down Valene and Lucy. He arrives and hands over $10,000 and takes Lucy back to Southfork with a thinly veiled story of Valene no longer wanting the daughter and that she should be raised by the Ewing family since she was Gary's daughter.

This kind of story would have explained why Lucy was raised by Jock and Miss Ellie and would have created drama at some point.
 
Presea

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
lbf522 said:
Lucy was interesting in the mini series. She was a female version of JR which made sense if JR and Sue Ellen were there to influence her.

In the series itself she was as hypocritical and self righteous was the rest which was a shame. The writers had avenues to go with Lucy if they really taken the time to try.

Mitch turned me off with his annoying pride nonsense which got tiresome after while.

Back to Lucy, Lucy on Knots Landing might have been interesting or a spinoff with her and Mitch or her alone.

JR trying to keep Valene and Lucy apart never made any sense to me. Logically, if Valene and Lucy reconnect, they would leave Dallas and Gary would have no reason to come back.
Click to expand...
I think that JR had irrational fears about Gary coming back to Southfork because he was always really hurt that Miss Ellie saw him as the favorite and immediately started giving him attention after he was born. JR had to watch Gary get all of the attention from his mother that she never gave him, even before Bobby was born. I think he then became paranoid about Gary and Val moving back in (even though they never wanted to), and losing what meager attention he was receiving from Miss Ellie. It was kind of the same thing with Ray. Even though Miss Ellie wasn't his mother, it had to have hurt JR a heck of a lot to see her being more kind and motherly very quickly to someone who wasn't her son, only Jock's, than she had ever been to JR.
 
Presea

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
Rove said:
My thoughts exactly and I believe I may have spoken about this very issue in another thread. JR had no interest in Lucy and found her tiresome. Just the mention of Gary or Valene made JR dry-reach so why keep Lucy around? She could easily have been packed off to L.A., to live with her parents and made the odd visit to Dallas to visit Miss Ellie and partake in any business affairs involving Ewing Oil since she had 10 voting shares.

It didn't make any sense to have Lucy in Dallas from the beginning if there wasn't a significant back-story just waiting to be uncovered as the series progresses. Valene was terrified of JR.

I would suggest a story along the lines of Valene and Gary dating however JR had a secret crush on her. At one of the Ewing Bar-b-ques JR has too much to drink and rapes Valene, with the end result she falls pregnant. Valene flees Dallas and Gary only to return just prior to JR marrying Sue Ellen. Valene arranges a secret meeting involving JR and Gary and begins to inform them why she fled however before Gary hears the whole sordid story he storms out not knowing that JR had in fact raped Valene. Gary goes back to Southfork, packs a suitcase and bolts, never to be seen again until Bobby bumps into him years later.

Valene tells JR he is the father of Lucy. JR believes Valene is going to blackmail him since she arrives the day before the wedding. Valene responds by saying she has returned to make things right and that Lucy should know her father. JR is not having any of it since he thinks it will cast him in a dark light with Jock and Miss Ellie and jeopardize his relationship with Sue Ellen.

The day after the wedding JR has his men track down Valene and Lucy. He arrives and hands over $10,000 and takes Lucy back to Southfork with a thinly veiled story of Valene no longer wanting the daughter and that she should be raised by the Ewing family since she was Gary's daughter.

This kind of story would have explained why Lucy was raised by Jock and Miss Ellie and would have created drama at some point.
Click to expand...
Wow.
 
Ferney

Ferney

Telly Talk Member
She was a great character that wasn't particularly used well, but I thought her acting during Mickey's death and trial were great. I mean, I thought she could act really well when they gave her the material to do something. Post-Pam, they really couldn't think of good plots for anyone on the show, much less Lucy returning. It was all a mess, and even if they had given her a meaty plot, he would have been dumb and silly, and not very good because the show on the whole was no longer good.
 
Presea

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
Alexia said:
It would have been tacky and a little 'too much' in my opinion... It was bad enough when we thought Christopher was JR's in season 5...:confused:
Click to expand...
I do understand what you mean. It could've gotten to a point when JR had all of these long lost kids, and then the writers might not know what to DO with all of them.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
I always liked Lucy. The spoilt rich girl with a good heart who has her daddy's knack of understanding J.R.'s calculating deviousness.

lbf522 said:
JR trying to keep Valene and Lucy apart never made any sense to me. Logically, if Valene and Lucy reconnect, they would leave Dallas and Gary would have no reason to come back.
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense when you understand what J.R. did to take Lucy away from Val, and J.R.'s response when Val tried to take legal action to get Lucy back. J.R. said that he'd kill Val if she ever returned to the state of Texas. Therefore, he is simply not going to tolerate Val hanging around Southfork. In fact, J.R. in his own mind thinks he's been way too soft on Val already, since she's still alive.

Knots Landing gives a more rounded picture on it.

Presea said:
I think that JR had irrational fears about Gary coming back to Southfork because he was always really hurt that Miss Ellie saw him as the favorite and immediately started giving him attention after he was born. JR had to watch Gary get all of the attention from his mother that she never gave him, even before Bobby was born. I think he then became paranoid about Gary and Val moving back in (even though they never wanted to), and losing what meager attention he was receiving from Miss Ellie. It was kind of the same thing with Ray. Even though Miss Ellie wasn't his mother, it had to have hurt JR a heck of a lot to see her being more kind and motherly very quickly to someone who wasn't her son, only Jock's, than she had ever been to JR.
Click to expand...

Not only this, but J.R. feared Gary's potential to ruin his (J.R.'s) business plans. Gary was way too complex, deep-thinking, different and left-wing for J.R.'s liking. Therefore, J.R. is determined to keep Gary's morale down, or get him well away from Texas. J.R. also hated it when a 17 year old Gary (J.R. would have been a 25-26 year old bachelor at this time) brought a 15 year old pregnant wife to live with him at Southfork. Not only that, but Val is from a pretty poor Tennessee background, a long way from the Ewing Oil riches. Jock took to Valene apparently, but was even harsher still on Gary and demanded that he improve himself to face the responsibilities of marriage and fatherhood. Gary eventually cracked with J.R. constantly on his case.

I've always said that Gary is J.R.'s true opposite, rather than Bobby. Bobby is against J.R. on the kind of terms that Jock laid down years earlier. Gary is on a different wavelength completely, thinking completely outside the box to his family members. Gary unnerves J.R. greatly, whereas J.R. partly enjoys Bobby's opposition to him.

Of course, you have to see Knots Landing to understand the whole picture regarding Gary.
 
A

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
No I don't agree with the idea of Lucy being JR's daughter, if JR were to have had a lovechild they should've brought the James storyline forward by several seasons, I'm more superised that TPTB waited until season 13 before there was any possibility of JR having a lovechild from his younger days, the man would only have to think about a specific woman and she'd get pregnant!

I'm trying to imagine Lucy in Knots Landing from its first season, and I can't envisage it somehow, maybe it's because we had "Lucy" type characters who were better written than Lucy herself in Knots.

However maybe that could've been the solution to the problem at the same time, maybe the Knots writers could've turned Lucy into a much more rounded and fully developed character than the writers over in Dallas could, Lucy wasn't Ewing enough for me after season 1 (dvd) and that showed, she was more Southworth and Clements, she always seemed a lot closer to Miss Ellie than she was to Jock.

There's an interesting speech she makes to Eddie in season 7 I think, she asks him to look around at Southfork, not once does she mention Ewing Oil, she loves Southfork, she really is her father's daughter.

I think JR though he could mould her into a Ewing but gave up after a while, hence why they had a difficult relationship.

Good point about Gary being JR's opposite, in a way Bobby was more like
JR and that's why Bobby was his favourite brother, because JR knew this fact.
 
Top