Harris Picks Minnesota Governor Tim Walz for Her Running Mate

CeeCee72

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I will say this: focusing on trans issues (which should be one for medical professionals) is bizarre on either side - it's not what's going to win an election.
It's not only bizarre, it's incredibly hurtful for those of us who have those we love directly affected by all the rhetoric.

Our families are not fodder for cannons in culture wars - but that is how we are treated. One side props us up a "brave" and "woke." The other side calls us "mentally ill" and "abusers." We are none of these things. We are human beings doing what is best for the people we love under the strict guidance of medical and mental health professionals.

This issue directly impacts a very small percentage of the population. Honestly not sure why everyone else has something to say about it. Anyone can find any example to "prove" any argument they are trying to make. The fact of the matter is that this isn't an issue for political leaders or parties or pundits to involve themselves in.

But that's just my personal opinion.
 

tommie

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It's not only bizarre, it's incredibly hurtful for those of us who have those we love directly affected by all the rhetoric.
Yup, but somehow, it is what it is.

My mom have a pretty major handicap and there's always talk about how we should cheapen it. It's just. You deal with it.

However, people who claim dumb things aren't going to get away with it.
 

Angela Channing

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The actual paper:
That's a different paper, that's a letter which isn't peer reviewed. I linked to the full paper in my post.

It's not only bizarre, it's incredibly hurtful for those of us who have those we love directly affected by all the rhetoric.

Our families are not fodder for cannons in culture wars - but that is how we are treated. One side props us up a "brave" and "woke." The other side calls us "mentally ill" and "abusers." We are none of these things. We are human beings doing what is best for the people we love under the strict guidance of medical and mental health professionals.

This issue directly impacts a very small percentage of the population. Honestly not sure why everyone else has something to say about it. Anyone can find any example to "prove" any argument they are trying to make. The fact of the matter is that this isn't an issue for political leaders or parties or pundits to involve themselves in.

But that's just my personal opinion.
I agree. The most important voices in this debate should be that of trans people themselves. I apologise if I have said anything you have found hurtful but always try to challenge comments I consider to be transphobic, as I have a cousin who is trans, and sometimes I lose sight of those who are directly affected by this issue.
 
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tommie

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That's a different paper, that's a letter which isn't peer reviewed. I linked to the full paper in my post.
Oh. Ok. Sorry, you so rarely read your papers.

But here's your paper in PDF-form:

(Sorry I'm sounding so blunt, but I haven't read this paper before so I'd like to read it with a good cup 'o' joe)

With that said, doesn't the lack of actual data ever bother you?
 

Frank Underwood

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There are medical professionals who find gender affirming care risky and irresponsible. Are they allowed to voice their concerns, or should they shut up too? Personally, I don't think anybody in this thread is "transphobic." I support trans rights for adults, but that's not the same as so-called "gender affirming care" for children. As long as politicians like Walz support laws that favor drastically altering a child's body over their welfare, people are going to have something to say about it. Medical "professionals" also circumcise babies who can't consent at all, and yet people find that acceptable too. IMO, it's not unreasonable to ask that doctors not stunt the development of impressionable children.

I will say this: focusing on trans issues (which should be one for medical professionals) is bizarre on either side - it's not what's going to win an election.

The cost of living, how will people live from one day to the next, how will they put food on the table and where's work for the heartland? These issues will win the US election - or at least who comes up with the better lie how to solve it.
Of course, but since neither party has any real plan to fix the economy, whether to chop off a child's genitals or not is all they're really giving people to talk about.

We can't make it about foreign policy either because they're in lock step on that too. Although I know they want us fighting the culture wars, this issue isn't insignificant either.
 
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tommie

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Personally, I don't think anybody in this thread is "transphobic."
Oh I don't know. Once you deem something beyond questioning, what's not -phobic?

Of course, but since neither party has any real plan to fix the economy, whether to chop off a child's genitals or not is all they're really giving people to talk about.
Yep. They have no plan about how to fix the fact that so many people are living hand-to-mouth so why not focus on something irrelevant?
 

CeeCee72

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Yep. They have no plan about how to fix the fact that so many people are living hand-to-mouth so why not focus on something irrelevant?
Because it works.

The politics of culture wars a sure fire way to gin up anger which can often lead to enthusiasm.

People respond to this crap. Glance over the political forums on this board. We spend a whole lot more time arguing about gender affirming care than we do the economy, national security, immigration policy, etc.
 

Angela Channing

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Because it works.

The politics of culture wars a sure fire way to gin up anger which can often lead to enthusiasm.

People respond to this crap. Glance over the political forums on this board. We spend a whole lot more time arguing about gender affirming care than we do the economy, national security, immigration policy, etc.
I'm not sure I can recall Harris, or Biden for that matter, raising trans issues in either the 2020 or the 2024 campaign. It seems to be a favourite issue of Trump and the MAGA Republicans who regularly give it way more prominence than it should have considering how few people it affects. The Republicans like making what should be minor (or non) issues into major discussion points like who has the biggest crowds Kamala or Trump.

I was also thinking, what is it about Minnesota? I can recall 3 VP nominees in modern times: Tim Walz, Walter Mondale and Herbert Humphrey. There may be others. It's not the largest state and is far from being the largest by population but it seems to have produced a disportionately large number of VP candidates.
 
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KayLloyd

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Because it works.

The politics of culture wars a sure fire way to gin up anger which can often lead to enthusiasm.

People respond to this crap. Glance over the political forums on this board. We spend a whole lot more time arguing about gender affirming care than we do the economy, national security, immigration policy, etc.
When we try to discuss those, we automatically get called racist and xenophobic. And we're met with blind denial that the country was better off 4 years ago.
 
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CeeCee72

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When we try to discuss those, we automatically get called racist and xenophobic. And we're met with blind denial that the country was better off 4 years ago.
Some people were better off four years ago. So e weren't. The only thing you get met with is a difference of opinion and the defense of human decency.

One way that I am NOT better off than I was four years ago is that I no longer have the right to make my own reproductive health care decisions. I think we all know who is at fault for that and it isn't Biden or Harris.
 

KayLloyd

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Some people were better off four years ago. So e weren't. The only thing you get met with is a difference of opinion and the defense of human decency.

One way that I am NOT better off than I was four years ago is that I no longer have the right to make my own reproductive health care decisions. I think we all know who is at fault for that and it isn't Biden or Harris.
The current Supreme Court sent the abortion issue back to individual states where it always belonged in the first place. The justices in 1973 overstepped their judicial branch of government role with Roe vs. Wade and should have kicked it back to the states back then. If you don't like the abortion laws in your state, complain to your governor, senators, and congressmen, or move to another state.
 

Karin

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The current Supreme Court sent the abortion issue back to individual states where it always belonged in the first place. The justices in 1973 overstepped their judicial branch of government role with Roe vs. Wade and should have kicked it back to the states back then. If you don't like the abortion laws in your state, complain to your governor, senators, and congressmen, or move to another state.
I don't think you understand what's at stake here. I read an article earlier today and it left me horrified. Apparently dozens of pregnant women have been denied the health care they need because of the new stricter abortion laws. Should a woman who tries to have a baby be punished because she lives in the wrong state?

I mean these women have been punished twice the way I see it. One, they lose a child that they wanted to have.
Two, they may lose their ability to have another child since they almost die miscarrying a baby that will never be able to grow big enough to survive due to it being an ectopic pregnancy.

These women could die just because their pregnancy was not normal. I think it's terrifying how little these women's lives matter.

Here is a link to the article:

 

CeeCee72

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The current Supreme Court sent the abortion issue back to individual states where it always belonged in the first place. The justices in 1973 overstepped their judicial branch of government role with Roe vs. Wade and should have kicked it back to the states back then. If you don't like the abortion laws in your state, complain to your governor, senators, and congressmen, or move to another state.
I see. So if I don't like the fact that my child could be forced to die by carrying a child to term from rape, I should move.

If I don't like the fact that women are dying in emergency rooms from lack of healthcare because they are pregnant and treatment may cause a spontaneous abortion, I should just move.

Nah. I think I'll just vote for a Presidential candidate who doesn't appoint religious zealous who value Catholicism over the Constitution.
 

Frank Underwood

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The only reason trans issues are being discussed in this thread is because Walz made Minnesota a sanctuary state for children seeking "gender affirming care." However, some people are still pretending that only Trump and his MAGA supporters give trans issues "way more prominence than it should have considering how few people it affects."

Apparently, making trans issues a prominent part of their campaign isn't something Biden or Harris would ever do.

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Frank Underwood

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It's disingenuous to suggest that trans issues dominate the discussions here. People such as I have discussed the economy, immigration, and foreign policy for YEARS, and we continue to do. Discussions over trans issues are relatively new, and they're primarily happening because minors are involved. MAGA gets blamed for stoking the culture wars, but it's politicians like Walz who are enacting laws making "gender affirming care" a fundamental right. As I've said before, children have a lot of developing and maturing to do. That's why setting boundaries for children has been common sense. I believe treating children like little adults is a huge mistake that will have repercussions down the road.

As for human decency, neither party represents that. One party wants to indiscriminately deport every undocumented immigrant, while the other allows people to cross the border unchecked. Of course, the US destabilized the countries those immigrants are fleeing. Both parties are complicit in the problem, but they still use it as campaign fodder.

In regard to the economy, Republicans have always loved giving tax breaks to the rich. They'd also love to eliminate the minimum wage as well, but what happened to Biden's promise to raise the minimum wage? He didn't put up a fight when the parliamentarian shot the plan down, did he? Instead, he presided over economic issues and an inflation crisis. Harris will certainly be a continuation of Biden's presidency, so we can expect nothing will change. Harris now claims to support eliminating taxes on tips, which Trump actually proposed to do first in June. Of course, I don't expect either of them to follow through. Politicians will say anything to get elected, but actions speak louder than words.

When it comes to foreign policy, Trump claims he will bring an end to the Ukraine War. I'm not sure that I believe him, but it's more than Harris is offering. Of course, both Trump and the Dems plan to continue funding Israel's genocide in Gaza. Again, where is the human decency coming from? Both parties are guilty of crimes against humanity.

Lastly, Obama had the opportunity to codify Roe v. Wade and didn't do it. Prior to taking office, he said making it law would be his highest priority. Once elected, he literally said the opposite. The aging RBG could have also retired. Of course, Obama probably wouldn't have fought for RBG's replacement any more than he fought for Merrick Garland. The point is there's blame to go around. I don't like the fact that Trump packed the court with conservative activists either, but let's not pretend that the Democrats care about these issues any more than Republican do. I believe the Dems intentionally refuse to implement the policies they claim to support so they can campaign on them indefinitely.

In 2020, Biden told his wealthy donors "Nothing will fundamentally change." Both parties have a vested interest in serving their corporate and militaristic masters unimpeded. I believe that's why they're raising the stakes in the culture wars. By making minors the target of trans activism, they create controversy and keep us fighting among ourselves. I can focus on multiple issues at once, so this doesn't distract me from the other pressing matters. Abortion rights are another niche issue, yet we all take a stance on that too.
 
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