- Awards
- 21
Not to excuse Putin, but America wanted this war -- we caused it. Russia didn't even want it! (And, rumors to the contrary, Russia isn't losing it!)
Not to excuse Putin, but America wanted this war -- we caused it. Russia didn't even want it! (And, rumors to the contrary, Russia isn't losing it!)
- Awards
- 9
The 2014 US-backed coup in Ukraine that overthrew their government and installed a pro-Western regime was also illegal and immoral.
Expanding NATO after promising not to was unethical, if not illegal. The West provoked a war mongering madman like Putin and then feigned outrage when he attacked.
Throwing money at Ukraine only benefits the military industrial complex. The irony is that giving them money for their "defense" is what's ensuring their slaughter.
Expanding NATO after promising not to was unethical, if not illegal. The West provoked a war mongering madman like Putin and then feigned outrage when he attacked.
Throwing money at Ukraine only benefits the military industrial complex. The irony is that giving them money for their "defense" is what's ensuring their slaughter.
- Awards
- 6
Not to "excuse Putin", while you both excuse Putin....
Bottom line is, the Ukrainian people are innocent and they're trying to heroicly save their land from Russian aggression. To turn your backs on them, tell them to put up, shut up and give up essentially so Trump can take a ridiculous victory lap and falsely claim he stopped the war is so morally vacuous and anti-democratic....words escape me to explain how vile that is. I have no words to say how far into the shitter the U.S. is right now.
Bottom line is, the Ukrainian people are innocent and they're trying to heroicly save their land from Russian aggression. To turn your backs on them, tell them to put up, shut up and give up essentially so Trump can take a ridiculous victory lap and falsely claim he stopped the war is so morally vacuous and anti-democratic....words escape me to explain how vile that is. I have no words to say how far into the shitter the U.S. is right now.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 21
Turning our backs on the people of Ukraine happened the minute we pressed for -- and then caused -- the war ourselves!
Even Boris Johnson, whom we sent as an emissary to talk Zelenskyy out of negotiating with Putin, admits that it's "a proxy war" (and he's said so verbatim). Ukrainian deaths will not increase if we withdraw our support for the war, but will if we continue it.
- Awards
- 6
I wasn't alive when the Americans stayed out of WW II because they didn't have any skin in the game. There was that big ocean between that protected you (like Trump claims now).
I've read and heard however, Canadians on the other hand, answered the call, without needing a "Pearl Harbor" attack here to do so. Many Americans also joined Canada and England, troops, etc to fight the evil before the U.S. government thought Hitler was a threat.
I hope history doesn't need to repeat itself for Americans to demand their government does the right and honorable thing.
I've read and heard however, Canadians on the other hand, answered the call, without needing a "Pearl Harbor" attack here to do so. Many Americans also joined Canada and England, troops, etc to fight the evil before the U.S. government thought Hitler was a threat.
I hope history doesn't need to repeat itself for Americans to demand their government does the right and honorable thing.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 9
So it's "excusing Putin" to call him a "war mongering madman?" Gee, sorry if I added too much nuance and context for your liking.
Putin is not the lone aggressor in this conflict, and that's a fact. The West purposely provoked this proxy war to fight Russia.
The US was never interested in "defending "Ukraine." Those innocent people were used as pawns. The vast majority of US-backed wars are based on false pretenses.
WW2 lasted six years. It wasn't like our 21st century wars, which are intentionally designed to last indefinitely.
Putin is not the lone aggressor in this conflict, and that's a fact. The West purposely provoked this proxy war to fight Russia.
The US was never interested in "defending "Ukraine." Those innocent people were used as pawns. The vast majority of US-backed wars are based on false pretenses.
WW2 lasted six years. It wasn't like our 21st century wars, which are intentionally designed to last indefinitely.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 6
So forcing Ukraine to give up their land to Russia and their own sovereign mineral rights to the U.S. is all about saving lives now, is it?
Let me tell you something....I would die fighting to save my country of Canada from foreign take-over...no matter why or who started the war. Ukrainians are no different.
Don't ever turn your backs on the morally superior. Karma has a way of biting you in the a$$.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 21
More than a million Ukrainians have died since war we wanted began three years ago --- we talked Zelenskyy into ceasing his negotiations with Russia!!
Well, by all means ....
Well, by all means ....
- Awards
- 9
I vehemently oppose stealing another country's natural resources, and I consider that a war crime. However, I also don't want US tax dollars funding death, destruction, and military contractors. Ukrainians can continue fighting Russia, but the US shouldn't be footing the bill. Besides, the US isn't backing this proxy war for their defense anyway.
- Awards
- 6
Do you have access to top secret government negotiations I'm unaware of or do you just quote internet rabit hole jargon?
It will be your death 1st.
- Awards
- 6
The US isn't funding the war. You're merely giving away your soon to expire weaponry and making more to replenish your own stockpiles under the guise of "funding Ukraine".
- Awards
- 21
Not like your access, that's for sure.
You don't know anything -- and yet you're the adult in the room!
- Awards
- 9
There was reporting in "Foreign Affairs" that Boris Johnson told Zelensky not to accept a peace deal on behalf of the West, but some people choose not to believe it.
Regardless of whether Ukraine gets our old or new weaponry, the point is the same. It's a scheme to fleece Americans of their tax dollars and Ukrainians of their resources.
Regardless of whether Ukraine gets our old or new weaponry, the point is the same. It's a scheme to fleece Americans of their tax dollars and Ukrainians of their resources.
- Awards
- 6
Are we back to trusting Boris now? I've lost track.
It's a scheme alright and Russia and China are the winners.
Speaking of fleecing taxpayers money...how is that DOGE savings going? Tell me again, how many millions it cost for Trump's vanity NASCAR lap and Superbowl appearance? Or how many billions of US tax dollars is President Musk receiving? You didn't really think he's volunteering his expensive time for nothing, did you? Gee, I wonder when some top secret US intelligence is going to get sold to someone.
- Awards
- 6
Don't mess with me Snarky...lol
- Awards
- 9
I only "trust" Boris Johnson in the sense that I believe he's vile enough to help thwart a peace deal and to admit the West is fighting a proxy war against Russia.
As for DOGE, you don't have to be a fan of Elon Musk and Donald Trump to know there is a lot of government waste that needs to be cut. On the other hand, I would prefer the person in charge of that department didn't receive government subsidies and wasn't worth a staggering $384 billion dollars. Musk has also gleefully bragged about cutting people's jobs, and Republicans have put cuts to SNAP and Medicaid on the table (after Trump said they wouldn't.) I've never voted for Trump, and I never would, so I don't get why there's these insinuations that I approve of everything he and Elon Musk are doing. That said, proposing to cut the military budget in half, negotiating a peace deal with Ukraine, and negotiating a ceasefire in Gaza are all things I believe in as a genuine leftist. I would give any President credit if they accomplished these traditionally leftist goals.
I'm also not sure why top-secret US intelligence would be up for sale, but it would probably involve either an illegal invasion or regime change that the US wants to engage in.
As for DOGE, you don't have to be a fan of Elon Musk and Donald Trump to know there is a lot of government waste that needs to be cut. On the other hand, I would prefer the person in charge of that department didn't receive government subsidies and wasn't worth a staggering $384 billion dollars. Musk has also gleefully bragged about cutting people's jobs, and Republicans have put cuts to SNAP and Medicaid on the table (after Trump said they wouldn't.) I've never voted for Trump, and I never would, so I don't get why there's these insinuations that I approve of everything he and Elon Musk are doing. That said, proposing to cut the military budget in half, negotiating a peace deal with Ukraine, and negotiating a ceasefire in Gaza are all things I believe in as a genuine leftist. I would give any President credit if they accomplished these traditionally leftist goals.
I'm also not sure why top-secret US intelligence would be up for sale, but it would probably involve either an illegal invasion or regime change that the US wants to engage in.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 6
Do you have any idea what the terms of a peace deal were that the West supposedly thwarted according to Boris? If they were a bunch of Ukrainian concessions with zero concessions (only gains) for Russia like the current Trump "deal"...or more accurately, threat/blackmail/embezzlement demands, I doubt Zelensky needed to be told to turn it down.
Of course peace in Gaza and Ukraine is wanted but at what cost? Trump wants to reward Russia with Ukrainian land that was illegally obtained, reward the U.S. with Ukraine's earth minerals for brokering a "deal" and allow Russia to be welcomed on the world stage again as though they did nothing wrong. He also wants Palestinians ousted from Gaza so his buddies can receive lucrative government construction contracts to make Gaza a row of waterfront mansions for the super wealthy. WTF???
Do you accept that or more importantly think Gaza and Ukraine should???
Of course peace in Gaza and Ukraine is wanted but at what cost? Trump wants to reward Russia with Ukrainian land that was illegally obtained, reward the U.S. with Ukraine's earth minerals for brokering a "deal" and allow Russia to be welcomed on the world stage again as though they did nothing wrong. He also wants Palestinians ousted from Gaza so his buddies can receive lucrative government construction contracts to make Gaza a row of waterfront mansions for the super wealthy. WTF???
Do you accept that or more importantly think Gaza and Ukraine should???
- Awards
- 21
American politicians wanted the war -- for profits and the minerals, and as a proxy war to "weaken" Russia (the latter of which has not happened, despite what the mainstream news media here keeps telling what's left of its cratering viewership). And both political parties here, Democrat and Republican (the D.C. kingpins and not the voting public) want the resultant profits.
Russia was going to wind up with those territories anyway.
You don't understand that Trump's policies in Gaza -- essentially to push the Palestinians out, is not much better or worse than Biden's team's policy of permitting an ethnic "cleansing" (i.e., slaughter). None of the American politicians give a damn, and they both intend on rewarding the super-wealthy who fund both our parties.
And they both intend to rape Ukraine of those minerals. As Blackrock "re-develops" the devastated land in both areas for untold billions in profits.
There are no good guys. If there were, they'd kill them.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 9
If people have contempt for Trump, shouldn't they also have contempt for the prior provocateurs? Journalist Aaron Mate rightly pointed out that "Russia intervened in Ukraine in August 2014 -- four months after the US-backed coup government launched an assault on the Donbas. Russia's aim was to prevent its eastern Ukrainian allies from being overrun and to force Ukraine to negotiate a peace deal, which succeeded with the Minsk Accords. Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, with US backing, sabotaged Minsk. When Zelensky was elected on a peace platform, they openly threatened his life if he implemented Minsk. Russia's main 'demand' in 2021-2022 was Ukrainian neutrality. If that's "capitulation", why was it enshrined in Ukraine's founding constitution, supported by a large segment of Ukrainians, and even initially accepted by Zelensky?" Good question.
As for Gaza, I said in the Israel thread that Trump's advocating for ethnic cleansing. Trump and his son in law see the rebuilding of Gaza as a business opportunity. That is vile, but so was the prior administration's funding of Netanyahu's genocide in Gaza. Netanyahu wants the Palestinians out of Gaza just like Trump. The difference is he wants to wipe them off the planet, while Trump wants to relocate them in other countries. Both actions should constitute war crimes, but I find genocide even worse. As for demanding Ukraine's rare Earth minerals in exchange for negotiating peace goes, that's obviously despicable. However, so is funding a proxy war under the guise of "defending" Ukraine. I imagine it's much more difficult to ask "at what cost" should peace come when your life is in constant danger. Trump's a contemptible person, but so are his predecessors.
As for Gaza, I said in the Israel thread that Trump's advocating for ethnic cleansing. Trump and his son in law see the rebuilding of Gaza as a business opportunity. That is vile, but so was the prior administration's funding of Netanyahu's genocide in Gaza. Netanyahu wants the Palestinians out of Gaza just like Trump. The difference is he wants to wipe them off the planet, while Trump wants to relocate them in other countries. Both actions should constitute war crimes, but I find genocide even worse. As for demanding Ukraine's rare Earth minerals in exchange for negotiating peace goes, that's obviously despicable. However, so is funding a proxy war under the guise of "defending" Ukraine. I imagine it's much more difficult to ask "at what cost" should peace come when your life is in constant danger. Trump's a contemptible person, but so are his predecessors.
Last edited:
- Awards
- 21
I was unaware of that, actually. I'd just assumed they'd threaten to blow up his on-stage dildo at precisely the wrong moment.