HBO Succession

Emelee

Emelee

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tommie said:
I'll admit that I always get a bit taken aback when Swedish is talked on these shows because it's obvious the majority of the audience isn't meant to understand what they're saying, so it's always interesting to actually hear what they're saying (unless they go with the borken-borken type of Swedish).
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I liked that too. Real Swedish by real Scandinavians.

That ending though.
Was it a win or a lose? All things considered, I take it as defeat. Kendall & Roman have obviously changed their minds. They want to keep the company, all of it. They tried to tank the deal, but Matsson screwed them by giving them more money. Everyone believes that Ken & Rome won - except Ken, Rome & of course Matsson. How will they get out of this deal? I doubt they will just accept it.
 
Emelee

Emelee

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Thoughts regarding s04e06:

Kendall and Roman the first half of the episode had me want to cover my face with a pillow. Super grand plans, but acting recklessly and doing what in the moment felt fun. Roman going on a firing spree and Kendall faking numbers. I kept thinking how ballistic Logan would go if he knew.

But then the shift. Kendall toned it down and rewrote the entire launch. Since Roman backed out based on the other version, Kendall was like "screw you" and didn't inform him of his changes.

A win for Kendall, but I feel it will be a short win. The siblings don't trust each other. They will likely turn their backs on each other. Kendall is becoming more and more like Logan. Losing himself, and at what cost? He gets what he THINKS he wanted all along, but he's still not happy.
 
Emelee

Emelee

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Thoughts on s04e07:

Woah! Matsson did what Kendall almost did, faking the numbers. Big time. GoJo is an air castle desperately needing to buy Waystar Royco, fast.

But on the other hand, is turning the tables and buying GoJo a good idea? Seems like the siblings are going too much Logan. Kendall has lost track of his kids, Roman is pushing people away and becoming an empty shell, Shiv is alienating her family and Tom.
Worth it? Is it worth becoming 3 depressed lonely versions of Logan, who none of them even liked?
 
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I've started watching now and I'm up to episode 4. Well, I never expected the twist in episode 3 which changes everything that you could have expected to happen. It's unusual for that to happen to a major and popular character in a series so it had all the more impact when it happened.

I loved that scene in episode 4 when Tom laughably suggested that the board should consider him as a candidate to run the company and Karl completely ripped him to shreds. It was a moment of beauty.
 
Emelee

Emelee

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Thoughts of latest episode

Election night. Roman siding with Mencken the fascist and Shiv siding with Democrat Jimenez. It's obvious that Kendall dislikes Mencken, especially considering the racism his children have to endure. But on the other hand, Mencken will help stop the Lukas Matsson deal. If Kendall could freely choose one of the candidates, he'd choose Jimenez for sure. But the Americans voted and it seemed Mencken won, despite the burning of votes in one state.

Shiv........... She really blew it. How will Kendall trust her after her stupid lie?
And Roman's close relationship with Mencken spells trouble for Kendall. Roman will get more power and Ken will be the outsider.

Unless of course Shiv and Roman destroy each other. If Kendall lets them destroy each other...

Seems like the highlight is almost always on Kendall. Most episodes either begins or ends with him. He's stuck in the middle, taking things in. He appears to be the winner. Maybe I get that impression because he's my favourite character? But I've always felt that if anyone succeeds Logan in the end, it's his "number 1 son", Kendall Logan Roy. However, I also wonder if his deep dark secret (driving his car into the water which killed a servant back in season 1) will come back to bite him.
 
Emelee

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Thoughts on latest ep.

Feelings. Rome..... Not so pre-grieved afterall. Loved to see uncle Ewan and ex-wives Caroline & Marcia again. And Rava! They could have done more with these terrific characters.

How tragically funny that uncle Ewan, Roman, Kendall & Shiv all did their speeches (or tried), but Connor who also wanted to hold a speech didn't get to do it. How fitting for this series that he's the odd man out, again.

Seems like there are 2 camps now. Shiv & Lukas versus Kendall & Roman. I never wanted the family out of Waystar, so I don't want GoJo to get it. Why would Shiv settle for being the American CEO and Matsson lapdog?

As much as I like my fellow Swede Matsson, I am rooting for Kendall. If he has much of Logan in him, he'll find a way to stop the deal and maybe buy GoJo. If anyone looks qualified to succeed Logan now, it's Ken.
 
Angela Channing

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Emelee said:
Thoughts on latest ep.

Feelings. Rome..... Not so pre-grieved afterall. Loved to see uncle Ewan and ex-wives Caroline & Marcia again. And Rava! They could have done more with these terrific characters.

How tragically funny that uncle Ewan, Roman, Kendall & Shiv all did their speeches (or tried), but Connor who also wanted to hold a speech didn't get to do it. How fitting for this series that he's the odd man out, again.

Seems like there are 2 camps now. Shiv & Lukas versus Kendall & Roman. I never wanted the family out of Waystar, so I don't want GoJo to get it. Why would Shiv settle for being the American CEO and Matsson lapdog?

As much as I like my fellow Swede Matsson, I am rooting for Kendall. If he has much of Logan in him, he'll find a way to stop the deal and maybe buy GoJo. If anyone looks qualified to succeed Logan now, it's Ken.
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I love almost everything that James Cromwell does and although he only has appeared in this series briefly, he has been electric in every scene he's in.

The finale is building to a fight between Kendall and Shiv and Roman is too unpredictable at the moment to know who he will side with or if he will challenge them both in some way. I've always liked Shiv, I think she is the most reliable and capable of the siblings but I think she's heading for a disappointment.
 
Emelee

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Angela Channing said:
I love almost everything that James Cromwell does and although he only has appeared in this series briefly, he has been electric in every scene he's in.

The finale is building to a fight between Kendall and Shiv and Roman is too unpredictable at the moment to know who he will side with or if he will challenge them both in some way. I've always liked Shiv, I think she is the most reliable and capable of the siblings but I think she's heading for a disappointment.
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Shiv isn't enough of a killer. Logan wanted a killer to succeed him. Shiv would be terrific as a leader of a smaller company though.

Shiv was probably never in Logan's mind to succeed him because she's a woman. Like she said, he was tough on women. Misogynist as he was. I think he always wanted it to be Kendall. He only lashed out and threw Kendall out because he dared to disobey him. Likely to teach him a lesson and also to toughen him up more in his training to become the next Logan.
 
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Emelee said:
Shiv isn't enough of a killer. Logan wanted a killer to succeed him. Shiv would be terrific as a leader of a smaller company though.

Shiv was probably never in Logan's mind to succeed him because she's a woman. Like she said, he was tough on women. Misogynist as he was. I think he always wanted it to be Kendall. He only lashed out and threw Kendall out because he dared to disobey him. Likely to teach him a lesson and also to toughen him up more in his training to become the next Logan.
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Shiv is currently planning to stab her siblings in the back in order to be the US CEO of the company after the Gojo takeover so she can be pretty ruthless when she needs to be. However, I think after the takeover goes through, Matsson will want to install a CEO who he can manipulate and be less independent than Shiv so I have a feeling that he might choose Tom or Greg.
 
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Angela Channing said:
Shiv is currently planning to stab her siblings in the back in order to be the US CEO of the company after the Gojo takeover so she can be pretty ruthless when she needs to be. However, I think after the takeover goes through, Matsson will want to install a CEO who he can manipulate and be less independent than Shiv so I have a feeling that he might choose Tom or Greg.
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Wouldn't that be a silly ending. Greg the egg as the successor. :laughs:
 
the-lost-son

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That's the best series in many, many years for me. It's clever, dramatic, suspenseful, chaotic, funny and sometimes truly exhausting to watch an episode. When Ewan gave the speech about Logan...I can't remember the last time I was touched at the same level.

Furthermore I enjoy watching 1 episode per week. I just love reading all the speculation how the series might end. I am thrilled to watch a full week for the next episode. Streaming is great, but in a detailed series like Succession I really need a full week to digest which it truly deserves. Sometimes I feel emotionally drained (if that makes any sense) after watching an ep.

I have no idea how things will conclude, but it can't be a happy ending I suppose.

Great, great, great. If you have a chance to watch, do it.
Highly recommended.
 
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tommie

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I feel like I got an early spoiler in the episode just by the virtue of knowing Swedish.

Some people are going to be big MAD at who becomes the successor, let's just say that!

But, this is very true to life. Ultimately, the CEO is just a spokesperson for the one who's really in charge - and you need a bootlicker for that role. But people are so going to be pissed off at this.
 
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the-lost-son

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What a ride. How miserable they all are. A great series to be remembered as one of the bests.
But I have my issues with Tom and especially Shiv.

Like Logan said, his children are not serious people. Shiv doesn't want Ken in charge, obviously only because she doesn't want it to be him. It's like a playground fight. It's so erratic that she prefers to sell the company to a psychotic Swedish stranger instead of keeping control and trying to drive Ken out of control in the long run. It's understandable if Shiv wants power or wants out of it, but serving under Matsson (her initual plan) feels like a degradation. How Matsson talked to Tom that - it was disgusting and worse than Logan ever did (who wasn't a complete atranger btw). I got it why Tom was sucking up to Logan all the time as he was trying to get a piece of the cake and some power. But how you can let someone treat yourself like Tom did, is beyond me.

There couldn't have been a happy ending.
But I would have preferred if Shiv had killed the gojo deal and in the last minutes had taken down Kendall with that waiter incident. The last scene could have been Ken meeting with Nan Pierce for example seeking revenge to get control of Waystar/Royco.

And so the story about this meaningless power struggle would have gone on and on and on...
 
Angela Channing

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I was right when I said in an earlier post:

"I think after the takeover goes through, Matsson will want to install a CEO who he can manipulate and be less independent than Shiv so I have a feeling that he might choose Tom or Greg."

Love him or loathe him (I loathe him) Tom is a survivor, mainly by doing what what Shiv described as being willing "to suck the biggest cock in the room". He avoided going to jail, beat all the Roy siblings, wheedled his way into Matsson's good books, beat a late betrayal by Greg but still managed to keep Greg subservient to him, and came out on top. The scene in the car near the end was kind of heart breaking when he offered his hand to Shiv and she accepted it showing the power dynamic in their relationship had totally reversed.

Great series overall and a great final episode. I'm glad it ended before it went stale and succumbed to an inevitable drop in quality.
 
Emelee

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First of all, I HATE SHIV. Seriously, wtf? Giving away everything to the person who fooled her and her snake husband? She tolerates Tom & Lukas more than Kendall?
Of course, this series could never end happily, but it feels like Tom & Shiv came out as winners anyway. Tom will likely bring her on with some nice title on top of it.
Kendall went out as the big loser. Even though he was the main character of the main characters. He has nothing left now that Rava took the kids and no one wants him at the company because of all his takeover attempts. He ended up in the biggest of dark holes possible. Will he stay clean or go back to drugs and eventually suicide? It looked like he wanted to jump into the water at the end, had it not been for his follower. Imagine having been groomed by your father since you were a kid to take over, and fight your entire adult life to get it, and then being so badly berayed by your sister. Just because she didn't want him to be the leader instead of her. I think Roman will bounce back, but I don't think Kendall ever will.

Connor was right at the beginning of the season regarding the Roys. Expect nothing, not even love. Certainly not family loyalty.

The-good-thing-about-having-a-family-that-doesnt-love-you-is-you-learn-to-live-without-it..jpg
 
Emelee

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Writer Jesse Armstrong & director Mark Mylod explain the ending perfectly:

Over a late night snack in their mother’s kitchen, they laugh and play as they anoint Kendall the next CEO. It’s a moment of levity and innocence that could only be followed by immense tragedy, director Mark Mylod explained.

“There was an odd emotional tension. The counterpoint to that was the lovely scene we called ‘Meal Fit For A King’ with that sense of recaptured innocence. Kids just being kids, no matter what their income. Everything seemed possible, and yet…” he said.

“My understanding of the show has always been that it’s a tragedy. Therefore, every moment of hope is so cruel, because we’re just waiting for that shoe to drop and waiting for their essential nature to be exposed. To break your heart again.”

“As with Tom’s betrayal at the end of Season 3, everything was always working toward this idea of Sarah’s character of Shiv ultimately sabotaging herself and sabotaging the deal,” Mylod added. “Jesse — I hate this expression — stuck the landing with this climactic showdown, if you like, between the three siblings. The final ripping off of the bandaid to expose that terrible, terrible truth put so simply by Roman — ‘We are bullsh*t’ — was so heartrending, and yet so inevitable. And good tragedy should feel inevitable, shouldn’t it?”

“In a reductive, brutal way, Roman ends up exactly where he started. He is that guy still. And he maybe could have easily been a playboy jerk with some slightly nasty instincts and some quite funny jokes. He could have stayed in a bar being that guy, and this has been a bit of a detour in his life, I’d say,” Armstrong said. “Shiv is still in play, I’d say, in a rather terrifying, frozen, emotionally barren place. But she has got this kind of non-victory, non-defeat. I mean there’s gonna be some movement there. There’s still a lot of that game to play out, but that’s where we leave it, and it feels like it’s going to be hard to progress for them emotionally given the things they said to each other. For Kendall, this will never stop being the central event of his life, the central days of his life, central couple of years of his life. Maybe he could go on and start a company…but the chances of achieving the sort of corporate status that dad achieved are very low go, and I think that will mark his whole life.”
 
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