By Season Four, Jock Was Starting To Lose His Grip On The Family.

[Billy Wall]

Has anyone else noticed that by season four, Jock was starting to be treated like an old man and the family was starting to lose respect for him? Even Lucy tells snaps at him during a brief discussion about Mitch. Never would have happened in the earlier seasons. Bobby gets into a heated argument in front of his friends. Again, never would have happened in the earlier seasons. JR lets some marketing woman get between him and getting back into the cartel. Something that would have delighted the one man he wanted to impress. Miss Ellie files for divorce.

By season four, the mighty Jock Ewing is living in a small apartment. I know they couldn’t have known the end was near, but I’d wish the writers would have given Jock a little more respect than they did in season four.

 

[Mustard]

The writers didn't know where the storyline situation with Jock was going to go at the time. Jim Davis was ill, and they didn't know the future. Jim was determined to carry on for as long as he could, and did so. In Season 4 DVD, I think he's only 100% in the first 2 episodes after J.R. was shot, like when he scolded Sue Ellen for being drunk.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

The writers didn't know where the storyline situation with Jock was going to go at the time. Jim Davis was ill, and they didn't know the future. Jim was determined to carry on for as long as he could, and did so. In Season 4 DVD, I think he's only 100% in the first 2 episodes after J.R. was shot, like when he scolded Sue Ellen for being drunk.

I think it was by the middle of the season where Jim's illness starts to get noticeable.

God Bless him. He was a lovely actor.

 

[Mustard]

I think it was by the middle of the season where Jim's illness starts to get noticeable.

God Bless him. He was a lovely actor.

Aye, the middle of the season is when it gets really noticeable to the point that his voice is changing, his mouth is moving different and he moves a bit different when he walks. But the swagger of old was going even in the early part of the season (not the first 2 episodes), but he was still able to ride horses at that point.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Aye, the middle of the season is when it gets really noticeable to the point that his voice is changing, his mouth is moving different and he moves a bit different when he walks. But the swagger of old was going even in the early part of the season (not the first 2 episodes), but he was still able to ride horses at that point.

He was terrific as Jock Ewing but as much as I hate to say this the character's death did lead to some of the greatest Dallas storylines. The year long battle for Ewing Oil for instance.

I love his performance as Jock and badly wanted Steve Forrest's character of Wes or Ben to really be Jock. I've always maintained there was never a slight against Jim Davis, bringing Jock back with another actor would've been a tribute to him. It's just a shame that the character of Ben/Wes who really was intended to be Jock all along was written off the show because the Producers ultimately chickened out on going through with the storyline. A shame.

 

[Mustard]

He was terrific as Jock Ewing but as much as I hate to say this the character's death did lead to some of the greatest Dallas storylines. The year long battle for Ewing Oil for instance.

I love his performance as Jock and badly wanted Steve Forrest's character of Wes or Ben to really be Jock. I've always maintained there was never a slight against Jim Davis, bringing Jock back with another actor would've been a tribute to him. It's just a shame that the character of Ben/Wes who really was intended to be Jock all along was written off the show because the Producers ultimately chickened out on going through with storyline. A shame.

After bringing Bobby back from the dead, it would have seemed too much to have Wes be Jock. That was the logic, I think.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

After bringing Bobby back from the dead, it would have seemed too much to have Wes be Jock. That was the logic, I think.

That was certainly part of it. The Producers probably reasoned that two resurrections from the dead in the same season would stretch credibility. Duffy's return as Bobby had a negative affect on the Wes Parmalee/Ben Stivers storyline, that's partly why it was pulled mid season. They did try again in season ten but the storyline largely had a negative reaction from the viewers resulting in the backlash. A shame. I love both actors very much God Bless both Jim Davis and Steve Forrest.

 

[Mustard]

That was certainly part of it. The Producers probably reasoned that two resurrections from the dead in the same season would stretch credibility. Duffy's return as Bobby had a negative affect on the Wes Parmalee/Ben Stivers storyline, that's partly why it was pulled mid season. They did try again in season ten but the storyline largely had a negative reaction from the viewers resulting in the backlash. A shame. I love both actors very much God Bless both Jim Davis and Steve Forrest.

It would have worked better if Bobby had not returned. The plan then had been for Ben to be Jock. In the aftermath of the dream revelation and Bobby's return from the dead, it's no wonder that viewers were cynical about the Wes plot.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

It would have worked better if Bobby had not returned. The plan then had been for Ben to be Jock. In the aftermath of the dream revelation and Bobby's return from the dead, it's no wonder that viewers were cynical about the Wes plot.

Yeah if Bobby had not returned Ben Stivers would've been Jock.

The fact that they tried again was commendable in season ten but they just didn't have the gumption to follow through on it.

Duffy's return from the dead did more damage than good, especially the lame explanation that it was all a dream.

I'm not surprised quite a few viewers deserted Dallas because of it. Certainly in the long term that plot line really damaged the show's popularity, more so after the departure of Victoria Principal.

I've also been made aware recently that there was also a slight ratings drop following the death of Jim Davis too.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

Has anyone else noticed that by season four, Jock was starting to be treated like an old man and the family was starting to lose respect for him?

Very interesting observation.

If Jim Davis had stayed healthy, this could have been an interesting storyline.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Has anyone else noticed that by season four, Jock was starting to be treated like an old man and the family was starting to lose respect for him?

I’ve honestly never noticed this but admittedly I haven’t watched that season in a few years now. I will definitely have to pay closer attention to this on my next rewatch.

 

[Monzo]

I get why the plan for Jock to return after Bobby returned was dropped, but why was Steve Forrest in season 10 at all? Sure he already had a contract for season 10 when he joined at the end of season 9, but was the contract so good that he would have been paid for a certain number of episodes anyway even if he didn't appear, so it was decided that if they have to pay him, he has to be on screen?

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I get why the plan for Jock to return after Bobby returned was dropped, but why was Steve Forrest in season 10 at all? Sure he already had a contract for season 10 when he joined at the end of season 9, but was the contract so good that he would have been paid for a certain number of episodes anyway even if he didn't appear, so it was decided that if they have to pay him, he has to be on screen?

They would've had to honour the contract and re-introduce him in season ten regardless of how many episodes he'd be in. The Producers had learnt there lesson over the Donna Reed debacle where she had sued Lorimar for breach of contract.

They clearly did try to have him really be Jock again but the storyline largely had a negative effect on the viewers. They pulled the storyline mid season quite quickly and tried to disprove that he wasn't Jock by suggesting that he really believed he was Jock when he was hooked up to the polygraph. The virtually identical X rays and the bullet wound Jock sustained in the Dove Hunt which Parmalee also had weren't mentioned again because those proved that he was Jock.

 

[Chris2]

David Paulsen, the producer of season 10, said they never had any intention of having Wes Parmalee be Jock. And shooting for the part of the season where Parmalee was revealed not to be Jock was completed within a few episodes of the initial Parmalee episodes beginning to air. Viewer reaction simply wasn’t a factor in the direction of the story.

 

[Billy Wall]

David Paulsen, the producer of season 10, said they never had any intention of having Wes Parmalee be Jock. And shooting for the part of the season where Parmalee was revealed not to be Jock was completed within a few episodes of the initial Parmalee episodes beginning to air. Viewer reaction simply wasn’t a factor in the direction of the story.

Maybe, but do you think he would ever admit that they changed a storyline because of fan backlash?

 

[DallasFanForever]

I agree that Wes wasn’t ever intended to be Jock. Ben Stivers might’ve been a different story but after Bobby’s return no one else was returning from the grave. The episodes were filmed before there was even time for there to be any backlash. I’ve always said the identical x-rays and injuries, bullet wounds, etc. was simply a case of someone not double checking the medical possibilities. Two different people can’t have the same exact matching wounds and that was their mistake. They probably regretted going down that path but they had to tell the story from both sides to make it sound plausible.

 

[Mustard]

David Paulsen, the producer of season 10, said they never had any intention of having Wes Parmalee be Jock. And shooting for the part of the season where Parmalee was revealed not to be Jock was completed within a few episodes of the initial Parmalee episodes beginning to air. Viewer reaction simply wasn’t a factor in the direction of the story.

David Paulsen wasn't on Dallas at the time of the Ben Stivers storyline, when the storyline of Jock's possible return was originally conceived.

 

[Billy Wall]

I agree that Wes wasn’t ever intended to be Jock. Ben Stivers might’ve been a different story but after Bobby’s return no one else was returning from the grave. The episodes were filmed before there was even time for there to be any backlash. I’ve always said the identical x-rays and injuries, bullet wounds, etc. was simply a case of someone not double checking the medical possibilities. Two different people can’t have the same exact matching wounds and that was their mistake. They probably regretted going down that path but they had to tell the story from both sides to make it sound plausible.

Two random strangers flying on the same helicopter having the exact same x-Ray is next to impossible.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Two random strangers flying on the same helicopter having the exact same x-Ray is next to impossible.

It is impossible. It stretched reality way too far. I get they were trying to build up the drama and make it look like there was a 50-50 shot he could be Jock for awhile but ultimately they overdid it with the medical explanations.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

It is impossible. It stretched reality way too far. I get they were trying to build up the drama and make it look like there was a 50-50 shot he could be Jock for awhile but ultimately they overdid it with the medical explanations.

He was Jock, the X rays were conclusive enough to show that along with the bullet wound.

The explanation that he wasn't was just badly written in my honest opinion but they had to provide some sort of explanation to write the character off the show.

However I do think that the way Barbara Bel Geddes plays Miss Ellie when Clayton wants to go after Wes certainly suggests that there's more to Wes's departure than meets the eye largely because we never see what happened between Ellie and Wes when they meet for the last time. Who knows what Wes really said to her? Did he provide further proof that he was Jock? Did he leave because he saw his family had moved on and that his presence was tearing them apart because they didn't believe him?

One other thing I noticed on a recent rewatch is when Clayton asks Ellie about what Wes said she mentions him being all alone without a family, she also says that she'd tell him more later but when she does this Clayton is in the background and Ellie's in the foreground with her back to him so make of that what you will.